Do we have to resort to tricking theists?

[Prodigy54321]

in defense of secularism and separation of church and state, I'm sure that several times I have said something to the effect of...

...even if I were a Christian, I would be reasonable enough to see that I should not push my religious beliefs on others.

I am of course talking about things like gay marriage, etc..which I obviously see as forcing people to abide by someone else's religious beliefs.

recently though, I have been thinking a lot about this...

the only reason why I should not believe that it was perfectly alright (or even mandatory) for me to push my Christian beliefs on others through things like a gay marriage ban is that I have doubt that what I believe is actually true.

if I am like many Christians and claim that I am certain that my beliefs about he Christian god are true, isn't acting to the full extent of these beliefs mandatory?

this of course is not a problem if people are allowed and freely DO acknowledge that they simply don't know whether or not their beliefs are true, but I'm afraid that since doubt isn't exactly seen as a virtue, actions to the full extent of these beliefs is indeed justified by their apparent certainty.

unless Christians admit that they are not certain about their beliefs, how can I tell them that they should still respect other peoples' beliefs or lack thereof and refrain from imposing their beliefs on others?

It now seems to me that all I am doing by saying things like......"even if I were a Christian, I would be reasonable enough to see that I should not push my religious beliefs on others."...is attempting to trick them into thinking that this is reasonable even given their beliefs? (for the good of the world by my standards obviously)

[cambraceres]

A Christian, you are right, if practicing bona fide, should indeed publicly espouse their religous doctrine. It is one of the two magic circumstances which form the prerequisite for salvation; to confess with your mouth that Jesus is lord.
Now in a purely technical sense, one must only declare this belief, not have anyone other than God hear them. If a Christian were to debate this point, one could ask what of a hermit, who does not have the luxury of friends? Is he exempt from salvation, even though capable of both requirements but utterly alone? Then of course, the intelligent theist could say that one must confess to everyone POSSIBLE, at which point rational analysis would prove futile.

Despite the rambling incoherency of my post, there is a substantive point. Christians try to infect others with their malady because they feel as thought this is the essence of good will. To give so great a gift must seem to them the highest aim of mankind. For me, their mad, overcomposed chimera does me no good, and only serves to dilute feeling and cloud thought.
Now you say that we are tricking theists. I plead not guilty and this is why. When I tell Christians that to oppress others with their faith is wrong, I use it as merely another argument against the entire system. I do not say that to spread the gospel is wrong within the christian context, but that the entire perspective is wrong. By a short, clear chain of antecedent concepts, one can easily establish that this form of pernicious propaganda is in fact oppression. Oppression, and good will shoud not be mentioned together, but are. The message of Christianity is an oppressive one; the act of spreading it is the same. How do these means fit a benevolent god? That is an argument against religion, not guile as you say.

Cam

[MaxWeiss]

Exactly. If you think I'm going to go to hell, and you really believe it, you should be shoving religion down my throat even if I object. After all, isn't an eternity of salvation worth the nuisance of my resistance, if you truly care about me????

This is why I think atheists should be vocal. I don't think we should force other PEOPLE onto our beliefs, but fighting for the secular nature of schools and government is OF PARAMOUNT IMPORTANCE because this is the structure in which we are bringing up our children and the future.