[censored] A6, TP in trouble oop

[Sir Winalot]

No reads.

50NL
SB ($22)
BB ($95)
UTG ($36)
MP ($120)
Hero ($48)
Button ($45)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif
1 fold, MP calls, Hero raises to $2.5, Button calls, 2 folds, MP calls

Flop: K/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif A/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($8)
MP checks, Hero checks, Button bets $7, 1 fold, Hero calls

I don't think many worse hand will call a bet here and the board isn't very drawy so I c/c. Button fires quite big so I'm probably c/f'ing the turn unimproved.

Turn: 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Nice, I picked a flushdraw to go along with my TP. I'll check this and see what he does, I think I'm probably going to c/r AI if he bets. Thoughts?

[Unknown Soldier]

flop is a fold, I thnk you are out-kickered here alot. As played, yeah I'd c/push.

[bozzer]

I think OP's line is fine. Not sure a krai is needed at the stakes I play, but it might be good at 50NL.

I do see the button betting a king in this spot thinking no-one has an ace.

[Unknown Soldier]

such a large bet though

[bozzer]

yeh. i don't know how much info i take from that bet size. it could be 'i have an ace, bet for value baby' or it could be 'i have a king but i don't want any trouble, fold you muppets'. I really don't know how people at 50 value Middle (broadway) pairs, so my answer is really for 5NL which probably does play a lot differently in this respect.

[Sir Winalot]

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such a large bet though

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I think he's bluffing here often enough when it's checked to him. But yeah, I'm a little worried about the bet size too.

[Genz]

With no reads, I tend to block the turn and I am happy if no worse hand calls and I take the pot down. With a kicker T+, I'd like the CRAI line.
And I only limp this preflop with no reads unless I'm on the button. But this might be a leak on NL50.

[Unknown Soldier]

even if you are good, I think most of the time you will have to fold the turn anyway, best to just give it up on the flop imo.

[Genz]

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such a large bet though

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I think he's bluffing here often enough when it's checked to him.

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Why do you think that? Is this a general NL50 habit? I'm asking because it's not HU.

[Sir Winalot]

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such a large bet though

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I think he's bluffing here often enough when it's checked to him.

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Why do you think that? Is this a general NL50 habit? I'm asking because it's not HU.

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I think that because it's the only way I can win unimproved. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I don't know, maybe he's not bluffing all that often here but I sure was hoping he would when I was in the hand.

soldier, I think you're right. I have bad reverse implied odds here and this should probably be a fold oop.


Edit: meh, I'll have to change my opinion again (for the 3rd time now). I don't think c/f is an option here because checking looks so weak and I'm inducing bluffs. I think it's either bet/fold or c/c and re-eval turn. What do you think about this?

[Genz]

As I opted for a block on the turn, I'd go with the bet/fold option, obviously.

[Sir Winalot]

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As I opted for a block on the turn, I'd go with the bet/fold option, obviously.

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Ah, I was talking about the flop all the time. Sorry for the confusion.

Edit:

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And I only limp this preflop with no reads unless I'm on the button. But this might be a leak on NL50.

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Certainly no leak, I just decided to teach villain a lession about limping in early position.

[Genz]

Since you were the preflop raiser, I think bet/fold is the better option for the flop. I'm not very much into extracting value from unknowns multiway and partly oop by slowplaying TPNK, but I'm a nit. /images/graemlins/wink.gif I think he will bluff-raise here far less often than bluff bet with those two high cards on the board and the likelyhood that you have hit one and have a decent kicker going along with it.

[Sir Winalot]

My kicker is crap compared to their range, I'm only beating A5-2 and I doubt they have any of those.( Edit: misread your post, forget this part) And you're absolutely right: they are never, ever, raising as a bluff if I lead the flop.

But I'm still not sure if betting the flop for 6-8 is best or c/c and see what happens. If I bet there I might get one street of value from KQ or maybe a pp, but I don't see any other worse hands calling there because there are no draws (ok, QJ maybe). This also means I don't have to worry about protecting my hand.

[Smilin']

I don't really like b/f the flop. Sure, it lets you know where you stand, but only after you've put money in against better hands and gotten nothing from worse hands. I'd like c/c for sure if Villain bet a bit smaller, and I think I still like it here. Then you can c/f most turns. My impression is that most Villains will check turn behind with a K if they bet it on the flop; the turn bet is enough to let you know you're beat, IMHO.

[Marshall28]

for this size of bet that villain makes, its an easy check/fold.

the thing is, you dont want to get into a guessing game thinking "does he have a7 or a5" u know what i mean?... betting doesnt accomplish anything but folding out the hands u beat and get calls (or raises) from the hands you dont beat.

i think betting this flop is a big leak in that sense.

your hand has value, but betting it essentially turns it into a bluff. because you were the pf aggressor, if u check the flop, it tends to be pretty likely that it will get checked around, or a small bet might be made.

in this case, it wasnt a small bet, it was a big one that should get credit, if you chcek call here you are just asking him to stick it to u again on the turn, wasting more money.

what you wanna do is get value from a king, or possibly an 8 (or medium pair) if they are really bad. so when its checked around on the flop they wont put u on an ace when u bet half pot or whatever on the turn.