$25NL Dream Flop for Suited Connector

[SkeetyMcdoogle]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($23.75)
BB ($25.60)
Hero ($24.65)
MP ($59.85)
CO ($5.85)
Button ($24.70)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/heart.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/heart.gif.
Hero raises to $1, 3 folds, SB calls $0.90, BB calls $0.75.

Flop: ($3) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/heart.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/heart.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/spade.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $2, SB calls $2, BB calls $2.

Turn: ($9) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $7, SB raises to $14, BB raises to $22.6, Hero calls $14.65 (All-In), SB calls $6.75 (All-In).

River: ($74) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/spade.gif (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $74

I JUST started playing cash games, so please feel free to point out everything dumb in the hand.

Is the raise UTG with suited connectors that low way too loose? My table was playing very tight, people seldom re-raised preflop, and I felt fairly confident in post-flop play.

Flop is standard right? I'm just trying to build or win the pot right there.

Looking back on the turn, my all-in call is horrible right? The SB minraiser was an idiot and I wasn't worried about him at all, but should I definately fold this to the overpush? I hadn't played many hands with this kid.

Thanks, first post here in MNL so let me know what I F'ed up (BESIDES THE HAND /images/graemlins/ooo.gif)

[corsakh]

Its all right.

Try not to raise with SC from UTG, save them for CO and button.

On the flop bet pot, pretend you are protecting your top pair.

On the turn I may fold to the second raiser, not sure.

[Hank Scorpio]

PF: Fold...you don't raise SC's first to act becuase you will be out of position for the rest of the hand with what will most likely be a weak hand. Only play them in position or flat call with them if there are a lot of other callers for the high implied odds:

Flop: Standard...

Turn: Standard...when you're raised and then re-raised though you have to start thinking about what your opponents have. Why would the BB 3-bet after just calling the flop when a 3rd heart hits on the turn? It's probably becuase he has a higher flush. I'm probably folding here, although calling isn't too bad because I've seen MUCH worse calls.

[Vyse]

Outside of raising UTG, standard. Push them around from position, not OOP.

I call this all day, and if they have a highier flush, well, that's a cooler. So be it.

[allaboutmyfetti]

pf is standard for me ... i raise SCs all day from UTG

TUrn - ugh, we're gonna be getting like ... almost 4:1, but since we're against 2 opponents a higher flush draw is very likely. man that sucks, I guess a fold is right but I always stack here against unknowns.

[Phytopath]

Please don't fold this turn, you can't be worried about flush over flushes anymore than being over setted.

I don't play SCs out of position either.

[MrBerlin]

you should at least call with SC's from utg. you could raise SC's for deception, but in general it's a call.

[Unknown Soldier]

if the table is q. tight I'd raise this utg, o/w it's a fold. If they are very loose-passive then you could call.

[corsakh]

[ QUOTE ]
you should at least call with SC's from utg. you could raise SC's for deception, but in general it's a call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please, don't give advice when you do not know what you are talking about.

In 6max, there is no open limping. Raise or fold.

[Unknown Soldier]

[ QUOTE ]
Please, don't give advice when you do not know what you are talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]

please don't tell people not to give advice, what's to say you know what you are talking about? What's to say anyone knows what they are talking about on here?


EDIT: [ QUOTE ]
In 6max, there is no open limping. Raise or fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

in fact, I disagree with this completely, there are times whn open-limping is good.

[Genz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you should at least call with SC's from utg. you could raise SC's for deception, but in general it's a call.

[/ QUOTE ]
In 6max, there is no open limping. Raise or fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but statements like these are ALWAYS false. Especially in No Limit. There are situations that call for open limping just as there are situations that call for minraises.

So on a tight table, you can get away with that from time to time. But if you are called, you should be prepared to be up against stronger hands almost always.
On the turn you basically got what you could hope for. When you play SCs you are rooting to get a flush. You got one so your first idea should be to get all your money in. After all, flush over flush is quite a rare thing to happen. OTOH, BB certainly has a strong hand. Because the board is rather low, it's most likely a set, an overpair or a higher flush or flushdraw. Not a nice spot. But I think I call anyway and smash things when he fills up or has a higher flush.

[Montezuma21]

I personally wouldn't raise SCs UTG unless the tables is very deep stacked and i feel i can predict opponent's reactions well, and that they will stack off reasonably light. standard is to fold. on turn you simply cannot fold at 25NL. absolutely no way. SB could have anything and BB's range includes sets, lower flushes and 2 pair far too often to fold.

Also: open limping can be correct in some situations at 6-max. there are no hard and fast rules such as this at NLHE. at most tables and with most holdings, it's def. -EV though.

[MrBerlin]

if the table is loose passive and that is the case on most nl25 tables i limp in with low sc's from utg.

[Vyse]

[ QUOTE ]
if the table is loose passive and that is the case on most nl25 tables i limp in with low sc's from utg.

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot of passive players usually are calling stations, though, which makes playing post flop even tougher.

[Sciencekid]

utg 89s is a limp. i want to see a multi way pot for cheaps with this hand. raise pf in position.

[GoRedBirds]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if the table is loose passive and that is the case on most nl25 tables i limp in with low sc's from utg.

[/ QUOTE ]

A lot of passive players usually are calling stations, though, which makes playing post flop even tougher.

[/ QUOTE ]

Aren't LAP calling stations ideal for speculative hands? I think it makes postflop play much easier.

[Unknown Soldier]

LAP?

but yeah they certainly are, scs/pps are perfect hands against them, as long as you don't get too excited if th flop comes 8 high.

[corsakh]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you should at least call with SC's from utg. you could raise SC's for deception, but in general it's a call.

[/ QUOTE ]
In 6max, there is no open limping. Raise or fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but statements like these are ALWAYS false. Especially in No Limit. There are situations that call for open limping just as there are situations that call for minraises.

So on a tight table, you can get away with that from time to time. But if you are called, you should be prepared to be up against stronger hands almost always.
On the turn you basically got what you could hope for. When you play SCs you are rooting to get a flush. You got one so your first idea should be to get all your money in. After all, flush over flush is quite a rare thing to happen. OTOH, BB certainly has a strong hand. Because the board is rather low, it's most likely a set, an overpair or a higher flush or flushdraw. Not a nice spot. But I think I call anyway and smash things when he fills up or has a higher flush.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am a little confused with your reasoning. Are we talking here about learning the game or beating up the stakes? Well, for the sake of beating a 25NL you can openlimp with 76o from UTG and call raises with 45s from SB or do all sorts of crazy stuff - you still gonna beat the limit being semidecent postflop. On the other hand, you get into this habbit and move up - bye bye money.

The main issues with openlimping, minraising and similar moves, you are not only giving away initiative and letting people see the cards cheaply, you are becoming extremely transparent to anyone taking notes on the game. And this is going to cost you dearly.

[Unknown Soldier]

yeah, that's a good argument for not open-limping, but you said never raise, which is just wrong.

Never say never!

[SCBielski]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you should at least call with SC's from utg. you could raise SC's for deception, but in general it's a call.

[/ QUOTE ]
In 6max, there is no open limping. Raise or fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but statements like these are ALWAYS false. Especially in No Limit. There are situations that call for open limping just as there are situations that call for minraises.


[/ QUOTE ]

You really shouldn't be giving this kind of advice to someone new to cashgames. It is generally excepted that open limp preflop is a fairly week play. I agree that it is sometimes correct to limp, but 6-max tables are highly aggressive and should be played accordingly. Open limps should really only take place in position with high implied odds, etc.

As for the hand itself: I think you should fold this kind of a hand UTG, but as played I think you should maybe bet out a bit more on the flop to represent a made hand. In general, there should be no deviation in your betting amounts based on your hand strength because obviously our opponents are also trying to win and a good opponent will pick up on this. On the turn I think your bet is pretty standard; however, with two opponents playing back at you this hard on the turn, you should try to link back the turn card to the flop to attempt to understand why they are betting so strong here. An overflush seems like the only logical hand that your opponents could have. (BTW, flush over flush DOES happen and is much more common than set over set. In fact, I had a hand at $50NL live lastnight in which there was a three way hand: flush over flush over flush.)

[corsakh]

[ QUOTE ]
yeah, that's a good argument for not open-limping, but you said never raise, which is just wrong.

Never say never!

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Where? I did not /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[corsakh]

[ QUOTE ]

You really shouldn't be giving this kind of advice to someone new to cashgames. It is generally excepted that open limp preflop is a fairly week play. I agree that it is sometimes correct to limp, but 6-max tables are highly aggressive and should be played accordingly. Open limps should really only take place in position with high implied odds, etc.


[/ QUOTE ]

??? You wanted to say limping behind?

[Unknown Soldier]

[ QUOTE ]
In 6max, there is no open limping. Raise or fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

well maybe not never, but that's saying the same really.

[corsakh]

Ah... you said "never raise", this got me confused.
I still stand by it. It may be profitable at micros, but I rather not get myself into bad habbits. At higher stakes I've never seen a decent player openlimping in 6max. Watching 200/400 on full tilt, I rarely see someone openlimping from EP without getting raised by someone from CO or the button. And their raise range is truly wild /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Unknown Soldier]

oh yeah, nah i didn't mean that! /images/graemlins/tongue.gif.

well at higher levels there sren't too many loose passive calling donkeys, so it is rarely correct to do it. It's rare at uNL too imo, but there are definitely situations where calling > raising/folding imo.

[illuminati]

open limping sucks and should never be done ever imo.

only fish and bad TAGs do it that all lose $ at the limit.