So how do you play a pair + FD?

[NuclrFusion]

Villain was 55/24/4.5/29

Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $37.92
CO: $50.32
Hero: $48.25
SB: $25.65
BB: $99.50

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif
UTG calls, CO folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $2.5</font>, SB folds, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $5</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Flop: Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($10.75, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets $7</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero...

[Hank Scorpio]

Bets 8 and push AI to a 3-bet.

I reraise AI to his flop bet. Combo draws are powerfull cause you have FE. If he calls your are a coinflip against a hand like AK.

[NuclrFusion]

[ QUOTE ]
Bets 8 and push AI to a 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

you mean bet $18??

[BromfieldWizard]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bets 8 and push AI to a 3-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

you mean bet $18??

[/ QUOTE ]

(good amt. $ you make when folds)-(marginal amt $ you lose on average when called) &gt; 0

[Hank Scorpio]

He edited it from his oringial post.

[Donkey85]

shove the flop

[NuclrFusion]

[ QUOTE ]
He edited it from his oringial post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, changed title to make it more accurate.

[NuclrFusion]

well here's how it went:
Flop: Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($10.75, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets $7</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises all-in $43.25</font>, BB calls.

Turn: 3/images/graemlins/club.gif ($97.25, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $97.25)


River: K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($97.25, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $97.25)

He showed KJo
/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Results:
Final pot: $97.25


I thought about it afterwards, and I felt like he *might* have only called there because the push looked like a bluff. I was thinking raise to $24, then push turn if called might have been better.

[TheSalche]

shove is fine here, they probably fold KT and worse or any queen.

raise to $24 and pushing turn is much worse because the pot will be bigger and its more "correct" for him to call a push there.

note: these plays are high variance, so don't be upset to lose several of these, because you're pretty much flippin coins

[Speedlimits]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain was 55/24/4.5/29

Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
5 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $37.92
CO: $50.32
Hero: $48.25
SB: $25.65
BB: $99.50

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif
UTG calls, CO folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $2.5</font>, SB folds, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises to $5</font>, UTG folds, Hero calls.

Flop: Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($10.75, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets $7</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero...

[/ QUOTE ]

Raise, call shove.

[Sir Winalot]

You have position so calling and raising are both fine IMO.

[BobAllinSki]

Here I shove. The great thing with combo draws is you know you are a coinflip but villain doesnt, the situation you want with a combo draw is either deep money &amp; implied odds or to be the one shoving it in to generate lots of fold equity.

The stacks in this example are annoying, deeper and you could raise to $20ish and then shove in if he re-raises getting nice big fold equity, but as they are his 3 bet will be all in which is a situation you want to avoid, where you have to call with a coin toss, so I'd probably just push.

The other alternative is to just call and make a judgment on the turn, if you hit its great, but if you miss then raising is much more of a semi bluff than the coinflip robbery you get away with on the flop, but with these stacks its not that bad of a play as you likely have decent implied odds, certainly better than raising small.

[munkey]

Pushing flop is fine though because the pot is small/FE likely lowish I prefer to raise[sometimes call] and use position for a free card.

Shoving turn is horrible, as our equity and FE drops. On the turn in general drawing hands &lt;&lt;&lt;&lt; made hands even TPCK.
Play about in PokerStove/EV calcs is a good learning tool.

[BobAllinSki]

[ QUOTE ]

Shoving turn is horrible, as our equity and FE drops. On the turn in general drawing hands &lt;&lt;&lt;&lt; made hands even TPCK.
Play about in PokerStove/EV calcs is a good learning tool.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I wasnt saying its a standard play after you call the flop, but it is an option but its a pure semibluff as your in a bad state when called, a turn raise does rep a lot of strength, and if villain close to pot bets it there is a lot of deadmoney in the pot to pick while on the flop your hand is much stronger but there is less deadmoney, certainly not horrible, just situational.

[bozzer]

Everyone is banging on about FE, but how much do we have against 55/24/4.5 who 3 bet preflop?

[munkey]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Shoving turn is horrible, as our equity and FE drops. On the turn in general drawing hands &lt;&lt;&lt;&lt; made hands even TPCK.
Play about in PokerStove/EV calcs is a good learning tool.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I wasnt saying its a standard play after you call the flop, but it is an option but its a pure semibluff as your in a bad state when called, a turn raise does rep a lot of strength, and if villain close to pot bets it there is a lot of deadmoney in the pot to pick while on the flop your hand is much stronger but there is less deadmoney, certainly not horrible, just situational.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ye srry horrible was a bit strong, vs the right opponents it's o.k though I'm still not a big fan of doing it v. often. In this hand I put FE quite low and given results are for all to see it's probably not a good move vs these type of low FE hgh vpvip villans as the poster above enunciated.

[kabouter]

I think you don't want coinflips with a loose player like this, just wait for better hands. I only consider FE like this, when villain is a good player, then I don't mind a coinflip if he does call.

[CrazyEyez]

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone is banging on about FE, but how much do we have against 55/24/4.5 who 3 bet preflop?

[/ QUOTE ]
Excellent point.

It`s not about the FE alone. When your a coinflip, but have the right pot odds to make this move it`s +EV in the long run.

you shove for 43.25 to win 53.25,

against

KK 70/30
AQ 55/45
AK 49/51
66 70/30
QQ 70/30
KQ 65/35

I think it`s correct to shove here.

[monkeymaps]

I think a push is good here but for the opposite of FE,Villian with these Stats calls our push with alot of hands we are already way ahead of.