Micro NL at Full Tilt

[dkoleary]

Is it just me or is $25NL etc. MUCH tighter at FT compared to say Party???
I play 6m and I find most tables to be averaging VPIP of 30~25 (not uncommon to have 20)

well?

[illuminati]

:stars

[LayZ]

Table selection. There are still plenty of fish there.

Get yourself on the waitlist for tables with $5 avg pots and 50% of players seeing the flop. This is key. When you get a decent PT database going you'll recognize the regular 2+2 TAGs and just leave the table - why make it hard on yourself?

[LOwrestling2001]

or steal the crap out of their blinds (the TAGS) =)

[dkoleary]

[ QUOTE ]
Table selection. There are still plenty of fish there.

Get yourself on the waitlist for tables with $5 avg pots and 50% of players seeing the flop. This is key. When you get a decent PT database going you'll recognize the regular 2+2 TAGs and just leave the table - why make it hard on yourself?

[/ QUOTE ]

I just went through all the tables and couldn't find 1 table with your criteria:
- Av. Pot >= $5
&
- Saw Flop >= 50%

And could only find a FEW marginal ones with like $3~4 av. pots and 40~45% saw flop.

Considering I multitable, should I be moving over to Party/Stars ASAP?
If so, Party or Stars or other?
If not, why FT?

[Miraculix]

Hi.
I´ve been playing at FT for the last month and a agree with OP. In most cases it seems like every table has 4 or 5 players with <22 VPIP and they often play back at you. Not an easy way to make money.
The reason I play there is bonus and RB.
A bit of whining too (please don´t point me to the BBV /images/graemlins/smile.gif). I´ve never played at a site that has that many runner/runner and river suckouts!! I KNOW it´s just variance, but it makes you wonder........

// M

[sputum]

What's the max rake on a hand there?
25NL
Ongame = 50c Stars = $3 /images/graemlins/mad.gif
Party? UB? AOS?
Save me looking it up /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Hank Scorpio]

You think 25 NL is bad....just wait till you get to 50 NL. There's at least 2 TAGs a table now.

[boycalledroy]

Can't you just abuse the f**k out of the button and 3bet them? So things that are nl50 skilz against them?

[SpecT]

i think there's alot of soft tables, just hard to find. Best way to find them is to datamine. Say that you play 6 tables, open up 20 tables on FT (i havent played on FT, but i assume u can open up this many), then datamine for half an hour or so. If you dont know how to datamine, well, work it out. Have pokerace open at the time aswell. After you've done datamining for a while, jump on the tables with the highest av. vpips, i guarantee atleast 6 of them will have av vpips of 35+, probably even more.

Basically, i play nl200 on party, and can find 6 tables with av vpips of 30+ at most times during the day, sometimes even 35+ . So if u cant find soft games at nl25 then u either arent looking hard enough, or should move sites.

God, i cant believe im giving so much away here, but anywayz enjoy. Oh, and dont go on just av pot, or % saw flop in the client window, I think these are taken over a small sample (10 hands i think) so are easily skewed. Best to just open up heaps of tables and find out the stats for urself.

Can't find good tables at nl25... dont be ridiculous

[Check_The_Nuts]

[ QUOTE ]
You think 25 NL is bad....just wait till you get to 50 NL. There's at least 4 TAGs a table now.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[King Spew]

Recently, I have noticed a trend at FTP.....

Prior to being Fristed, when I ran a scan of tables thru SpadeEye, I would find between 10-15 tables meeting my filter. Over the past few weeks, I will OFTEN get back ZERO tables using the same criteria. I have seen my win rate plummet.

My own experience may be a key. I was playing the $100 tables prior. After Fristicide happened, I withdrew down to $200 and played the $10 and $25 tables... also, didn't play any hands for a time. Now when I run a table scan, I see TONS of the same villains I played against on the $100 tables. Either they withdrew $$$ like me or have lost a bunch.... either way as an American, I not looking to bust out right now as reloading options look dreadful. So I'm playing MUCH tighter.

[Templar555]

I play NL10 at FT and I will run into a table every night(after 50-100 hands) where most players are TAGs and the table avg is 20% VP$P 5% PFR.!

[Messiahkid]

Honestly, it is not as bad as you guys are making it out to be.

I have a fairly huge 50 NL database at FTP and just because there are 2 "TAGs" at the table does not mean anything. These players are often the most exploitable and some of the biggest donators are in fact multitabling tight players (who most are probably on 2p2 posting in UNL).

You (we) just need to learn to adjust, but as is the 50NL game at FTP is still very, very beatable for an above average winrate.

[Hank Scorpio]

I disagree. How can you say a multitabling TAG is more exploitable than a fish?

[SpecT]

i also disagree. you want to be making most of ur money off fish. exploiting tags is just like icing on the cake, although i do think this becomes more important as the tables become tighter. But still, i think thats a crazy statment

[Messiahkid]

Did I say that a multitabling TAG is more exploitable than a fish? I said they are often exploitable and often the biggest donators (as they log more hands than fish who are around the table for ~100 or so hands).

Out of all of the regular 50NL players on FTP, I can say that probably about 5 of them would be consistent, long term winners at higher stakes.

[King Spew]

[ QUOTE ]
Honestly, it is not as bad as you guys are making it out to be. <font color="blue">Maybe, maybe not. At times (usually East Coast USA primetime) there are a few good tables. But I will freq run scans after midnight without a single hit. </font>


I have a fairly huge 50 NL database at FTP <font color="blue"> me too, 'bout 340K hands $10-100 </font> and just because there are 2 "TAGs" at the table does not mean anything. These players are often the most <font color="blue">MOST?????? lol </font> exploitable and some of the biggest donators are in fact multitabling tight players <font color="blue"> They are also some of the biggest extractors. Variance is NOT my friend right now.... maybe again by the summer? </font>

(who most are probably on 2p2 posting in UNL <font color="blue">pwned! </font> ).


You (we) just need to learn to adjust, but as is the 50NL game at FTP is still very, very beatable for an above average winrate. <font color="blue"> I would say your use of "very, very" is superiorly overstating the ease of running over a FTP table lately. If you had said simply " FTP is still beatable for a good winrate", I'm on your side. </font>

[/ QUOTE ]

EDIT, DB actually holds 1.64M hands.... just the latest one is at 340K

[LayZ]

So what's the consensus? Is stars the place to be for multitabling at 6max uNL?

[Messiahkid]

I have 250k hands played/mined 50NL and 100NL and I am in contact on a daily basis with atleast 3 people who are currently beating FTP 50NL for a significantly above average winrate, and I am talking over avg of 45-50k hands/month.

[SpecT]

[ QUOTE ]
So what's the consensus? Is stars the place to be for multitabling at 6max uNL?

[/ QUOTE ]

no, party is... suckerrrrrrs /images/graemlins/smile.gif

btw guys... 300K hands isnt that big for a mined db

oh, and the average winrate is around -3ptbb/100 i think /images/graemlins/smile.gif, but how much above this average winrate we talkin?

[jk1986]

[ QUOTE ]
Did I say that a multitabling TAG is more exploitable than a fish?


[/ QUOTE ]
Yes you did...
[ QUOTE ]
These players are often the most exploitable

[/ QUOTE ]

[Messiahkid]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Did I say that a multitabling TAG is more exploitable than a fish?


[/ QUOTE ]
Yes you did...
[ QUOTE ]
These players are often the most exploitable

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your expert analysis and correction, you know what I meant.

[jk1986]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Did I say that a multitabling TAG is more exploitable than a fish?


[/ QUOTE ]
Yes you did...
[ QUOTE ]
These players are often the most exploitable

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your expert analysis and correction, you know what I meant.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well not really TBH. As others have already pointed out, you flat out claim that TAGs are more exploitable than fish, which just isn't true.

[Messiahkid]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Did I say that a multitabling TAG is more exploitable than a fish?


[/ QUOTE ]
Yes you did...
[ QUOTE ]
These players are often the most exploitable

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for your expert analysis and correction, you know what I meant.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well not really TBH. As others have already pointed out, you flat out claim that TAGs are more exploitable than fish, which just isn't true.

[/ QUOTE ]

The thing about most donating fish is they usually hit/go so they aren't at the tables for a long period of time.

In saying what I did, I did not mean that fish arent more exploitable than multitabling TAGs on a 1-1 comparison. These MTTags are obviously playing more hands and are usually very transparent.

[dkoleary]

kkk, watever, so FT's no good? yes?

[Antinome]

I usually find that I'm the loosest player at the table now, which is weird, since it used to be the opposite, but it isn't the end of the world, since they aren't particularly good TAGs- most of them aren't even raising their PPs, which is just stoopid.

[dkoleary]

[ QUOTE ]
most of them aren't even raising their PPs, which is just stoopid.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah i lost a few pots with my TPGK's to limped in QQ/JJ's - no joke

[jonyy6788]

omg, if you can play at Party go play at Party, holy cow.

I agree Full Tilt sucks and is rigged, but it's beatable....

[KurtSF]

[ QUOTE ]
I usually find that I'm the loosest player at the table now, which is weird, since it used to be the opposite, but it isn't the end of the world, since they aren't particularly good TAGs- most of them aren't even raising their PPs, which is just stoopid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ever try adjusting to the table conditions?

[Leviathan101]

FTP is so beatable. I &lt;3 the Tags cause frankly they suck. I play a standard LAG game and steal so many pots its not even funny. Continue preying on the fish but also learn how to beat TAGs. At this level, it's not that hard.

[BoozeHound]

-1.33 PTBB/100 25NL - 100NL over 25,000 hands /images/graemlins/frown.gif

But I am above average /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

But I will beat it. It sucks to find 1-4 TAGS at most tables, but I will beat it. Continuing my bad habits from hot streaks and the good ol days of playing against fish while multi-tabling is -EV. Just get better. I will.

February is a new month. I will beat you tags.

[Antinome]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I usually find that I'm the loosest player at the table now, which is weird, since it used to be the opposite, but it isn't the end of the world, since they aren't particularly good TAGs- most of them aren't even raising their PPs, which is just stoopid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ever try adjusting to the table conditions?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's funny. Being the loosest player at the table IS my response to overall tight table conditions. Playing the opposite of your opponents is generally the most profitable. When the tables were loose, I was tight. Now, I generally play loose. That's not to say I don't look for tables full of loose passive players to exploit and then play a standard TAG game, it just doesn't come around as much anymore.

[Miraculix]

How about Absolute?? Are the games softer than at FT?

// M

[ImprovinNewbie]

The tables are pretty tight these days and when i find a table full of LOOSE players, they are short stacked and leave in 2 seconds, win or lose. i've gone bust at FTP may times (including yesterday) and all i see are sick coolers, top v set, set v stight, etc. im going to keep playing there (b/c i have a mac) and hopefully getting better. the tags must be beatable because no one plays perfect poker, espescially at 10NL, but playing big pots sans nuts is prolly -ev. my winrate over 25k is -2 so props to me and my above average losing rate and maybe ill turn that into a winner. gl guys.