wierd river spot 25NL

[MusashiStyle]

ok, all the players in this hand seem pretty fishy (except for myself i hope!).
and the turn brings me 2 pr. but i was worried about a str8 or better 2 pr. so on the river my hand is pretty undefined and i'm not sure what to do

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($14.25)
UTG ($17.15)
MP ($51.60)
CO ($5.15)
Hero ($22.25)
SB ($24.95)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $0.75</font>, Hero calls $0.75, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $0.50, UTG calls $0.50.

Flop: ($3.10) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $1</font>, CO calls $1, Hero calls $1, BB calls $1.

Turn: ($7.10) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, CO checks, Hero checks.

River: ($7.10) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $0.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $5</font>, CO folds, Hero ???

[thac]

Since you got as far as the turn, you have to bet it when it gets checked to you. I probably fold preflop though, and if I don't, I probably fold on the flop. River is a definite fold though.

[MusashiStyle]

[ QUOTE ]
Since you got as far as the turn, you have to bet it when it gets checked to you. I probably fold preflop though, and if I don't, I probably fold on the flop. River is a definite fold though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure about that, as I said these players are fishy, and I have 78s on the button. One thing to note is that the player first to act almost certainly does not have j9(nut str8) because if he checked turn in order to check-raise and was unable to then he would have bet more on the river. Also, the second player would never have j9 because he has to bet the turn everytime there pretty much. So I'm just saying it's not necessarily a fold on the river though it is obvious i should have bet the turn.

[JadeRedstone]

bet the turn every time.
Then you can easily fold the river knowing you are behind. As played its hard to tell. But I fold!

[illuminati]

calling this flop is a pretty big leak dood. bet turn, fold river fosho.

[MusashiStyle]

[ QUOTE ]
calling this flop is a pretty big leak dood. bet turn, fold river fosho.

[/ QUOTE ]

you're kidding right?

I know it's marginal and i am behind, but I have a backdoor flush and str8 draw, middle pair , and i am in position against a bunch of donks. I agree folding might be a little better but it can't be a leak.

[sputum]

Like preflop.
Not madly keen on flop call but meh.
Not betting the turn begs the question... why call the flop?
I'd fold the river but you could be good here.
[ QUOTE ]
I know it's marginal and i am behind, but I have a backdoor flush and str8 draw, middle pair , and i am in position against a bunch of donks. I agree folding might be a little better but it can't be a leak.


[/ QUOTE ]
Would you rather hit a backdoor out on the turn than hit two pair? /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[illuminati]

at 25nl, yes, this is a leak - look at the situation you got into on the river.

[thac]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Since you got as far as the turn, you have to bet it when it gets checked to you. I probably fold preflop though, and if I don't, I probably fold on the flop. River is a definite fold though.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure about that, as I said these players are fishy, and I have 78s on the button. One thing to note is that the player first to act almost certainly does not have j9(nut str8) because if he checked turn in order to check-raise and was unable to then he would have bet more on the river. Also, the second player would never have j9 because he has to bet the turn everytime there pretty much. So I'm just saying it's not necessarily a fold on the river though it is obvious i should have bet the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just don't see what hands you're beating that raise like that with two players left to act. He's saying "Look, I know there's more people that could have two pair or top pair, but I don't care" .. he limp-called, and donks love to slowplay their big hands. I think he either has Q/images/graemlins/heart.gifT/images/graemlins/heart.gif or a set.

Like others said - if you're calling this flop, you gotta bet this turn. There's a straight draw and a flush draw, and you said the villains are donks, so they're gonna call with lesser hands, but since you didn't bet the turn, you almost have to fold the river because you have no idea where you stand against them.

[bazooka87]

you have to bet this turn

[Unknown Soldier]

pf is good, in fact I think folding 78s otb here is bad. Flop call is fine and you have the odds middle pair and flush/straight possibilities + position and 5:1 makes this call fine. River is tough, the Q can't have made a straight, if he has a straight he made it on the turn. It's probably a call given the incredibly weak action up to the river. He probably thinks (and rightly so really, that a hand like KQ/QJ is good here). Idk specific reads would help sway it

[ QUOTE ]
at 25nl, yes, this is a leak - look at the situation you got into on the river

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry, but that's a terrible argument. It could have easiy been different, you're just being results orientated.

OP, you should definitely bet this turn though, I'm not sure why you checked

[MusashiStyle]

[ QUOTE ]
pf is good, in fact I think folding 78s otb here is bad. Flop call is fine and you have the odds middle pair and flush/straight possibilities + position and 5:1 makes this call fine. River is tough, the Q can't have made a straight, if he has a straight he made it on the turn. It's probably a call given the incredibly weak action up to the river. He probably thinks (and rightly so really, that a hand like KQ/QJ is good here). Idk specific reads would help sway it

[ QUOTE ]
at 25nl, yes, this is a leak - look at the situation you got into on the river

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry, but that's a terrible argument. It could have easiy been different, you're just being results orientated.

OP, you should definitely bet this turn though, I'm not sure why you checked

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this analysis makes sense. In fact the river raise was a bluff (k9). I folded. and the first position called with kq. So in fact I was ahead on the flop. but that's not important. the important part is he figured out the hand ranges of the 2 players.

[eigenvalue]

You are a fish for sure:
(1) Fold preflop
(2) Fold on the flop (you have second pair, weak kicker in a 4 player pot)
(3) Bet turn. If you don't bet now, why did you call preflop and on the flop. It seems, you have no plan at all how to play your hand!
(4) I don't know. If I'm in that kind of spot, I know, I've misplayed that hand on earlier streets.

[illuminati]

[ QUOTE ]
pf is good, in fact I think folding 78s otb here is bad. Flop call is fine and you have the odds middle pair and flush/straight possibilities + position and 5:1 makes this call fine. River is tough, the Q can't have made a straight, if he has a straight he made it on the turn. It's probably a call given the incredibly weak action up to the river. He probably thinks (and rightly so really, that a hand like KQ/QJ is good here). Idk specific reads would help sway it

[ QUOTE ]
at 25nl, yes, this is a leak - look at the situation you got into on the river

[/ QUOTE ]

sorry, but that's a terrible argument. It could have easiy been different, you're just being results orientated.

OP, you should definitely bet this turn though, I'm not sure why you checked

[/ QUOTE ]

Apart from the fact that flush cards and straight draws dirty his outs? Calling this flop is bad. pf is obviously fine but we're only going to be really happy when we hit trips on the turn. Maybe, maybe without the heart draw it's ok or if his 7 doesn't complete straight draws, but for these reasons the flop is a clear fold.

[barryc83]

Just fold the flop. You're getting great odds but you're not calling pf to hit a one pair hand, youre calling for straights/flushes. As played plz bet the turn. River is a fold. I dont think the flop call is that bad, but you can get yourself into a lot of trouble later on in the hand so just fold now.

[illuminati]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
calling this flop is a pretty big leak dood. bet turn, fold river fosho.

[/ QUOTE ]

you're kidding right?

I know it's marginal and i am behind, but I have a backdoor flush and str8 draw, middle pair , and i am in position against a bunch of donks. I agree folding might be a little better but it can't be a leak.

[/ QUOTE ]

btw this might equate to 1 out

[flo]

As played, bet the turn hard.
But as others have pointed out: fold pf. On the flop i can see situations for call, fold and raise. Depends on villain.

[illuminati]

oh, CO and UTG don't even have full stacks. folding pf is good here.

[Check_The_Nuts]

wow not betting the turn 4 way is incredibly bad. Flop isn't too good either.