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View Full Version : 25NL 6m: JJ 3bets PF and runs into scary board


Bowlboy
02-07-2007, 11:05 PM
villain is 27/19/2.7 no other specific reads as of yet.
I'm pretty comfortable with preflop and flop here though comments welcome, but I have these too main questions:

1)Getting 4-1 on the river can I call here? I called because of the pot odds thinking I'm ahead of any busted straight draw like AQ, AJ, or possibly AT. I'm also thinking on the river that QJ is in his range as well.

2) When in position in hands like this I'm often tempted to fire a 2nd barrel in case my opponent is either drawing or floating me. I identify these situations as ones where I do not want to induce a bluff on the river, as I would have had to fold to any decent sized bet here. So by leading out on the turn, I might get a cheaper showdown or take it down there. So my question is does firing a 2nd barrell here have any merit whatsoever, or do I just give up after the flop?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($61.70)
Hero ($57.70)
Button ($32.75)
SB ($27.75)
BB ($24.30)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $1</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $3</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, UTG calls $2.

Flop: ($6.35) K/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $5</font>, UTG calls $5.

Turn: ($16.35) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: ($16.35) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $5</font>, Hero calls $5.

Final Pot: $26.35

Acein8ter
02-07-2007, 11:18 PM
It's only 5 into a 16 pot... call it. He may have a AT hand...

Or K9s or some rag like that. (Afraid that he has a low kicker which explains the block bet at the river)

Marshall28
02-07-2007, 11:25 PM
firing a 2nd barrel is pretty terrible here.

what did the 6 on the turn change? ... nothing in villains mind, so he is going to call a 2nd barrel most of the time, even if he is drawing to a jq straight.

u played the hand fine. the river call is kinda iffy, but based on the fact that it was so small i dont think it was a mistake.

Bowlboy
02-07-2007, 11:29 PM
[ QUOTE ]
firing a 2nd barrel is pretty terrible here.

what did the 6 on the turn change? ... nothing in villains mind, so he is going to call a 2nd barrel most of the time, even if he is drawing to a jq straight.

u played the hand fine. the river call is kinda iffy, but based on the fact that it was so small i dont think it was a mistake.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not going to argue that 2nd barrelling is a better line than checking the turn here, I'm just looking for opinions. I think your reasoning why it's terrible is off though. People will call flops with gutshots and oesd's and then fold the turn often. On the turn, your implied odds go way down because there is less money left behind.

Marshall28
02-07-2007, 11:37 PM
i agree that implied odds go way down, but 50nl is also full w/ calling stations who dont like to fold after theyve put money in the pot chasing a draw on the flop.

pretty much what the situation boils down to is that he either has a K which has u crushed, a T which you are way ahead of, or a draw. if it is the case that he has a king, you will be putting more money into the pot as a big dog, if its the case that he has a T, theres a good chance he folds. if its the case he holds a draw, its gonna depend on the opponent.

sooo if we want to gain maximum value from this hand ... we can either bet which will fold out any T that might bluff at us on the river, or possibly fold out a draw (which is at best like 30 percent to hit) -- and might bluff on the river.

but this is all assuming villain doesnt slowplay 3 kings, which happens to be pretty likely most of the time at 50nl.

i like the safe approach, its paid quite a few of my bills.

Bowlboy
02-07-2007, 11:50 PM
Marshall28 I appreciate your commments. I too want the safe approach which is why I'm considering a turn bet that allows me to check behind the river. In a lot of cases I would have faced a much larger river bet which I would not be able to call by checking the turn. I'm probably just being results oriented here. Villain had QQ. Totally makes sense how he played the hand right from the start. 2nd barrell probably would have done it.

Marshall28
02-07-2007, 11:57 PM
well, i think your idea has merits, but i also think u can find a much better spot to put money in the pot than this one.

u really only invested 8 bucks before the turn ... a turn bet is going to have to be like 12 more ... i think thats unnecessary when u can get him to make the call when u have a huge hand in the future.