Raising from the Button - Poker Tracker Stats Question

[RickA]

I need some help! I am trying improve my understanding of position and loosen my game up in the right spots.

On the Position Stats tab my pre flop raise #'s when 1st in are:

Button - 8.82%
1 - 10.14%
2 - 9.2%
3 - 11.3%
SB - 8.19%


Now I'm thinking this can't be good raising more UTG than from the button. Am I becoming passive or is this a by product of playing loose NL25 tables where it is rarely folded to the button? Can anyone share their raise 1st in stats by position?

Thanks

[thac]

My raise first in stats are at 14% for UTG-BTN and 6.1% for SB.

I think you should be looking at PFR stat instead of Raise 1st in though.

Mine are -
UTG - 13.4
UTG+1 - 15.6
CO - 18.4
BTN - 20.2
SB - 10.6
BB - 5.5

I think these are more realistic to your PFR numbers, because I think if someone limps and you raise, it doesn't count for raise 1st in, but it does for PFR.

[Cpt.Spaulding]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should be looking at PFR stat

[/ QUOTE ]

definately

look at your net amount won and bb won/hand. you should see that your postion has the biggest influence on your winnings. played correctley, q8s on the button can be far more profitable than ajo utg. so it stands that you should be raising far more hands from the button then then utg.

my pfr % (6max)
button- 27.95
1- 20.96
2- 12.52
3- 8.79
BB- 4.07
SB- 7.65

The size of the numbers isnt whats important because there are different styles of play. whats important is the ratios increasing as you move towards the button.

[RickA]

Thank you. I guess I'm trying to find obvious spots to raise more and become more aggressive.

[gir]

button- 29.04
1- 22.91
2- 19.56
3- 15.32
BB- 8.96
SB- 14.58

I'm profitable everywhere except (0.01) in 3rd and (0.07) in BB over the last 16000 hands.

[ben wb]

My preflop raise and raise first in by position is:

Button: PFR 32% RFI 16%
CO: PFR 23% RFI 14%
UTG+1: PFR 15% RFI 12%
UTG: PFR 13% 13%
SB: PFR 12% RFI 6%
BB: PFR 9% RFI 0.07% (I'm guessing that's from heads up)

That's for an overall VPIP/PFR of 21/18.

[RickA]

This is where I'm confused. My total raising stats increase towards the button but my Raise 1st in stats decrease. I thought I might be to passive on obvious steal attempts.
I hear what you are saying about playing styles and I am 18/11 but would like to loosen up a little. Needless to say I view your numbers with awe.

[RickA]

This is awesome feedback. I've been on this forum for over 3 years and probably took more tonight than I have in that whole time. 21/18 is the range I would like to get to.

[thac]

[ QUOTE ]
My total raising stats increase towards the button but my Raise 1st in stats decrease. I thought I might be to passive on obvious steal attempts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe it's because you have more chances to raise in EP? You are more likely to be first in from UTG (obv) than from the button.

[Cpt.Spaulding]

one thing to consider when loosening up your game is to take it a little at a time. dont go wild all of a sudden. it takes time to go from weak tight or TAG (im not implying you are either, rather creating a senario) to LAG. How well you play post flop is also important, so slow and steady is important until you see progress.

One way to begin is to consider why you are raising. your stats make me think you are raising because you have a good hand and are trying to thin the field. thats a good reason to raise, but it isnt the only reason.

raising is a very powerful tool to gain position at the table (not to mention establish yourself image which is another issue), and again, i personally feel that position is the most important aspect of SH poker (even more so then the hands you are playing).

it doesnt appear that you are taking advantage of stealing blind oppertunities. blinds may not seem like much, but after 10s of thousands of hands, they will be a huge part of your profits. there are a few great articles on the art of blind stealing on this forum that i found extreamly useful. During your next few sessions you should try and apply these and see how it feels.

After you get the hang of the above, you can move on to attacking limpers. If someone has limped in frontof you, try firing a raise from the co or button with hands that you would normally limp with (small pairs, 78s, etc.) If you dont pick up the pot, you will be amazed how often a cbet will take the flop.

Then you can move on to 3 betting and other stratagies. Remember, all this takes time and practice. learning how to loosen up is difficult, and the biggest mistake people make is trying to do it all at once. But the benefits of raising in position are huge and you will see the whole game opening up for you. SH is a game where you need to really need to be tuned into how your opponents are playing, and you can play them (instead of your cards).

Good luck

[ben wb]

[ QUOTE ]
This is awesome feedback. I've been on this forum for over 3 years and probably took more tonight than I have in that whole time. 21/18 is the range I would like to get to.

[/ QUOTE ] I actually also played 18/11 when I first started playing 6 max and I've been transitioning to a more aggressive preflop style over the last month or so. Still getting used to it and I dropped down in stakes to practice it but it's going well so far. Most of the difference is from raising limpers with hands I used to overlimp (suited connectors, suited one gappers etc.) and adding more hands to my blind stealing range.

[Vyse]

I have 22/14 stats in only 9K hands since I've joined Full Tilt. Small sample size -- only about 2 weeks -- but I wanted to start fresh on a new site.

Button: 18.86
1: 16.84
2: 13.92
3: 13.77
BB: 8.49
SB: 14.81

Guess I should really loosen up more in the button and CO, I suppose. The only hands I play in position that I don't play elsewhere are SCs and suited Aces; what do you guys play? All broadway cards? I almost alway fold A7, A8, A9o.

[Cpt.Spaulding]

[ QUOTE ]
what do you guys play? All broadway cards? I almost alway fold A7, A8, A9o.

[/ QUOTE ]

For me, it really depends. I dont have a set range of hands to play in position. the other players dictate what i am going to raise with. A real weaky who limps often and doesnt play well post flop can expect me to raise 79o if i got the co or button and im comfortable with the players in the blinds. One the other hand, i will tighten up a little bit if a good TAG who plays back at me limps.

I agree witht the what you said about the Ajunk hands, as i would mcuh rather raise with j8s then A7, but again, it depends on how everyone else is playing. If i feel like i can outplay someone post flop, i will raise very marginal hands when in position. Even if some of these plays are slightly negative EV, the advantage you gain when you do have a big hand and get action far outway the negatives.

[bozzer]

A9o is a button raising hand for me.

[Askilus]

A general question about PT-stats, sorry for the hijack:

How fast does these stats converge? I know it takes A BUNCH of hands to get the correct ones, but when are they starting to become iteresting at all? 10k hands or something?

[Vyse]

I take a month's worth. 20k should be good enough. A month for me is like 35-50k though depending on my mood.