"He has to like her more"

[DeezNuts]

I always hear people say this, that is, the guy HAS TO like the girl more than the girl likes the guy for the relationship to work. I understand that it's partially because guys are much more likely to cheat. Also, it seems for some girls basically all that they need is for the guy to be completely in love with them for a relationship to work, but for guys, this doesn't seem to be enough.

I've definitely seen this play out in most real-life relationships; at best there seems to be an equal amount of "like" between the two people, at worst the guy is a slobbering puppy dog when the girl is around.

I know I'm generalizing and of course there are a million other factors that go into a successful relationship, but is this generally a true statement?

DN

[Luckboxer]

[ QUOTE ]
guys are much more likely to cheat.

[/ QUOTE ]

sometimes I wonder if this is just a lie we tell ourselves.

[MrWookie]

I think it's exactly the opposite, dude. How many threads does OOT have where some guy is posting about a failed relationship, esp. early in the relationship, in which he let himself fall too hard for some chick and she got scared off or tired of him? Why do you think jerks get chicks?

[M2d]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
guys are much more likely to cheat.

[/ QUOTE ]

sometimes I wonder if this is just a lie we tell ourselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we're more likely to get caught/brag about cheating.

[slickpoppa]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's exactly the opposite

[/ QUOTE ]

True dat. Women hate needy guys. They want to be the needy ones

[Aloysius]

[ QUOTE ]
Why do you think jerks get chicks?

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I always hear people say this, that is, the guy HAS TO like the girl more than the girl likes the guy for the relationship to work.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wook - what % of the relationships "jerks" are in with chicks do you think are working out well?

DN - I think this is not necessarily true "feeling" wise, but from a female perception standpoint (meaning how the girl looks at the relationship) I think it's important because yes, girls are needier and they need to feel that the guy is incented to stick around.

-Al

[Colt McCoy]

OP,

I think you're confusing a working relationship with a girl walking all over a guy.

[fnord_too]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
guys are much more likely to cheat.

[/ QUOTE ]

sometimes I wonder if this is just a lie we tell ourselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

I want to say there are studies which suggest women cheat as much or more than men. Maybe someone ambitious can research this. I am sure there have been sociology or psychology studies on this exact issue.

[El Diablo]

Deez,

Hmmmm... I've actually never heard that.

I've always thought that one person liking the other person more than they are liked back is the recipe for a relationship that won't work.

Obviously there's rarely a 100% match, but I think the best relationships are all people who like each other more or less to the same degree.

[DeezNuts]

I am talking more about LTRs and marriage.

I would say that in the majority of the weddings I've been to, the guy unequivocally loves the girl more(at least from what info I am privy to). I think this may be a cultural thing, it seems to be pretty common in asian relationships.

DN

[Aloysius]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this may be a cultural thing, it seems to be pretty common in asian relationships.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was just about to post something along these lines - the actual manifestation of the "guy liking the girl more" I've seen mainly in Asian relationships.

I still think, on some level, the guy being more into the chick can be good for a working relationship for reasons I noted above.

One drunken night several months ago, my female friend posed the question to a group of us - "which would you prefer, being more in love with your significant other, or vice versa?" The answers and reasoning were very varied, I was surprised.

-Al

[El Diablo]

Al,

What was your answer?

I like it when the person is more in love with me because I'm a bit of a control freak and somewhat chickensh*t when it comes to relationships. I like that edge to be tiny, though, it gets super-boring if the difference is more than a little.

When it comes to marriage, though, I'm a romantic and have an idea of both of us being completely and absolutely in love with each other, both at infinity love!

[adsman]

[ QUOTE ]

I like it when the person is more in love with me because I'm a bit of a control freak and somewhat chickensh*t when it comes to relationships. I like that edge to be tiny, though, it gets super-boring if the difference is more than a little.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it's a tough balance, isn't it? That's the main problem I've found with Italian chicks, they tend to super-worship you. And I immediately get super-bored.

[DeezNuts]

All the relationships I've been in, I've felt that the girl was more into me than vice-versa, and yes, it becomes extremely boring after a while.

My friends think that once it goes the other way, I'm a goner, but I can't imagine that happening, although I secretly hope it will.

DN

[davelin]

[ QUOTE ]
I am talking more about LTRs and marriage.

I would say that in the majority of the weddings I've been to, the guy unequivocally loves the girl more(at least from what info I am privy to). I think this may be a cultural thing, it seems to be pretty common in asian relationships.

DN

[/ QUOTE ]

In my personal limited sample-size, I always find that it's the girl that ramps up her feelings pretty quickly during the relationship process and I have to play catch-up. But once the relationship has stabilized, I've never heard of "he has to like her more".

[Claunchy]

Here's the thing.

She has to be really into you, or there is no relationship to begin with. It'll either fizzle out quickly, or you'll think you're in a relationship while she pretty much just tries to avoid you.

You have to be really into her or you'll start hooking up with other chicks. The exception to this is if you're a troll, but even then the relationship will suck because you'll still wish you were doing better.

So ultimately, like Diablo said, it needs to be reasonably close to equal. If it's very long term though, expect moderate fluctuations from time to time.

[Aloysius]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I like it when the person is more in love with me because I'm a bit of a control freak and somewhat chickensh*t when it comes to relationships. I like that edge to be tiny, though, it gets super-boring if the difference is more than a little.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, it's a tough balance, isn't it? That's the main problem I've found with Italian chicks, they tend to super-worship you. And I immediately get super-bored.

[/ QUOTE ]

In answering the hypothetical - I would personally choose to be more into the chick - part of it is because I'd get bored if she's more into me (I've noticed for myself the discrepancy doesn't have to be that great for boredom to set in). Also the idea that I'm with someone who is so amazing, I'm ok with this dynamic.

Practically speaking though, I think it makes more sense to afford yourself more control.

I've always had good balance in my relationships - though it ebbed and flowed alot, the power dyanamic. My guess is that's true for most relationships.

-Al

[milesdyson]

This is just a general comment, but I figured it was worth saying. At least in my experience, I have gotten into long term relationships somewhat out of convenience. The girls who I become serious with are really the ones who make it easy for me in the beginning. They usually do this because they have a crush or whatever.

It's way harder to get into a long term relationship with an unknown girl who you find attractive than it is to get into one with a girl who shows interest in you. I think this is why a lot of guys feel like they have always been the more-loved one. This is how I feel as well. I have always been the one to end my long term relationships - maybe I don't even start them if I think there's a chance they may end any other way.

[kickpushcoast]

actually in my experience, and i have quite a bit of it, things have alot better chance of working out if the girl likes you more. like diablo said, any healthy relationship is going to have both parties really digging on each other equally.

honestly, the second a woman realizes she can get her way with you or run over you, its curtains. especially if its a good looking woman, because now you ve just crossed over into the group that includes 99 percent of the rest of the men on the planet

[Duke]

Yeah I'm going to have to say that the people who both really really love each other to a ridiculous extent are doomed. That sort of emotional involvement leads to a ton of variance in the relationship, and they might find themselves in blowouts that they can't get through.

So, I think the "like" has to be equal, and it has to be a reasonable amount. If the partner can do no wrong, then they will do all sorts of wrong but you won't see it until it manifests itself in a huge fight.

[octopi]

I think that that statment might be true at the start of a relationship, possibly if the girl is having reservations or is a cautious person. But, that being said, that could go either way.

In the long run, good relationships are always in flux. There may be a time when someone 'likes' the partner more or is more sympathetic or supportive. This may flip with time, as need be.

It turns me off when someone is gaga for me. Seems too clingy and needy, especially at the start of the dating process. Makes me suspicious and I kick hard against them to have my own space.

[ChicagoTroy]

[ QUOTE ]
I always hear people say this, that is, the guy HAS TO like the girl more than the girl likes the guy for the relationship to work.

[/ QUOTE ]
Makes 100% no sense to me, and having a guy more invested than a woman is more likely to result in a woman getting some action on the side.
[ QUOTE ]
I understand that it's partially because guys are much more likely to cheat.

[/ QUOTE ]
Women cheat a lot, and it's much easier for them.
[ QUOTE ]
I've definitely seen this play out in most real-life relationships; at best there seems to be an equal amount of "like" between the two people, at worst the guy is a slobbering puppy dog when the girl is around.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree, but that seems to indicate an equal amount of commitment, not the guy having more.

In terms of generalizations, a lot of the blending of gender roles in the name of equality tends to lead to a lot more [censored] up relationships and far fewer happy people, IMO.

[2Fast]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's exactly the opposite, dude. How many threads does OOT have where some guy is posting about a failed relationship, esp. early in the relationship, in which he let himself fall too hard for some chick and she got scared off or tired of him? Why do you think jerks get chicks?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with Wookie...I also agree with the prior poster who referenced that the whole "men cheat more than women" thing is a lie (or at least an outdated concept, especially in the US). Women these days in America have a lot more options and expect a whole lot more than they did in the 60s -70s when they pretty much were just looking to get married and career opportunities were nowhere near as big as they are today (hrmmmpppp...what a joke, career opportunities - by and large careers suck today in the US). So I think as a result they cheat as much as guys for sure it's just that TV/Hollywood and the general public don't show it as much as the traditional cheating used to be all about the guy.

Also, I think historically women have just been a whole lot better at keeping a secret and so it's always been a little closer than the numbers would actually suggest.

Edit: wow that was my 999th post almost at 1000!

[nath]

[ QUOTE ]
All the relationships I've been in, I've felt that the girl was more into me than vice-versa, and yes, it becomes extremely boring after a while.

My friends think that once it goes the other way, I'm a goner, but I can't imagine that happening, although I secretly hope it will.

DN

[/ QUOTE ]
Take it from me, the other way around just sucks.

[fish2plus2]

I really cant imagine being into a girl more then she was into me. It just doesnt seem possible. For me, a big part of loving someone comes from them loving you first, and the responsibility of that.

Of course, when I was 13 or 14 I would get obsessed with girls and think I was in love with them and stuff like that without ever touching or even talking to them. To me, the idea of some guy being more into the girl sounds pretty much like this.

[MrWookie]

[ QUOTE ]
Al,

What was your answer?

I like it when the person is more in love with me because I'm a bit of a control freak and somewhat chickensh*t when it comes to relationships. I like that edge to be tiny, though, it gets super-boring if the difference is more than a little.

When it comes to marriage, though, I'm a romantic and have an idea of both of us being completely and absolutely in love with each other, both at infinity love!

[/ QUOTE ]

El D, you stated my thoughts on the subject exactly.

[fish2plus2]

Where is the evidence that American women cheat as much as men? I often hear this being mentioned, but where is it coming from? A survey?

[NajdorfDefense]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
guys are much more likely to cheat.

[/ QUOTE ]

sometimes I know this is just a lie. Men get caught more.

[/ QUOTE ]

[guids]

I really have never heard about what the OP is talking about, Ive never had a really serious relationship, but never have I been more in love with a chick than she is w/ me. Fortunetly I know hard it is on the girl in this situation, even though Im completely honest with them, and wont ever put myself in a position like that.

[Fast Food Knight]

No.

[thatpfunk]

ive been in a super intense relationship when i was younger (early college) in which there was a lot of flux. things would either be super good or super bad. most of the bad times were the result of one of us liking the other/being interested in the relationship a lot more than the other. the end result was we both cheated on each other and things were pretty horrible for both of us.

im now in a pretty serious relationship and ive always assumed that i love her/care a bit more than she does. now, that isn't to say i don't think she doesn't care about me/love me. but she knows if she called me up and wanted me to do a long, pain in the ass favor for her, i would, no questions asked. and i wouldn't be doing it because i felt obligated, or pressured, or id get some awesome sex later or something but because if it makes her happy, i want to do it.

but, the beauty of our relationship is that she doesn't ask me to do these things. she cares enough about me, respects me enough that she doesn't ask too much. then, the little things that i want to do for her are a pleasant surprise.

so i guess i think it works out ok. i always thought being in that position would be crazy/pussywhipped, etc. now i like it.

[Lucky]

it helps.

Just like for one night stand, it helps for guy to be better looking/cooler/ i.e. she 'likes' him more, otherwise they would be friends.

If two people are spending time together while not having sex (basically marriage or longterm deal) woman has upper hand and is gettin best of it. To balance this, she must also better hotter/more desired of two.

[DeezNuts]

[ QUOTE ]
ive been in a super intense relationship when i was younger (early college) in which there was a lot of flux. things would either be super good or super bad. most of the bad times were the result of one of us liking the other/being interested in the relationship a lot more than the other. the end result was we both cheated on each other and things were pretty horrible for both of us.

im now in a pretty serious relationship and ive always assumed that i love her/care a bit more than she does. now, that isn't to say i don't think she doesn't care about me/love me. but she knows if she called me up and wanted me to do a long, pain in the ass favor for her, i would, no questions asked. and i wouldn't be doing it because i felt obligated, or pressured, or id get some awesome sex later or something but because if it makes her happy, i want to do it.

but, the beauty of our relationship is that she doesn't ask me to do these things. she cares enough about me, respects me enough that she doesn't ask too much. then, the little things that i want to do for her are a pleasant surprise.

so i guess i think it works out ok. i always thought being in that position would be crazy/pussywhipped, etc. now i like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is closer to what I am talking about. I didn't convey it correctly, which is my fault, but I'm not talking about someone being p-whipped or letting the other "walk all over them" or being clingy.

When there is an inequality, slight to moderate, it should be the guy liking the girl more for the relationship to work in the long run.

DN

[El Diablo]

tpf, Duke:

"ive been in a super intense relationship when i was younger (early college) in which there was a lot of flux. things would either be super good or super bad."

"Yeah I'm going to have to say that the people who both really really love each other to a ridiculous extent are doomed. That sort of emotional involvement leads to a ton of variance in the relationship, and they might find themselves in blowouts that they can't get through."

This describes most of my relationships from high school through about 25. Basically, I sought out all the most intense, drama-filled relationships I could, often with girls who had major problems in their lives.

As I got older, I realized that a lot of what I thought was love was just a love of excitement and started to seek out much more stable relationships. I think stable relationships where both people really care about each other are a lot harder, but when they work, they are great.

[Noo Yawk]

DN,

This is more of an assumption for guys in their 20's whose friends fall in love and spend less time with the gang.

As for guys more likely to cheat, well who do you think guys cheat with? Only single girls?

[fluffpop62]

pfunk (and subsequently dn),

loved your response! (plug for your gf is that she is hot and deserves to be in such a pleasant relationship).

i don't think i would ever exclusively be with someone who i wasn't positive liked me more then i liked them. this isn't to say that such affection couldn't develop into a mutual level of love for each other, but in the beginning there's no way i'd be comfortable unless i knew he was completely smitten.

a) i don't want to be hurt, and if he likes me more and it doesn't work out, then it's not going to be particularly hurtful

b) i do believe that people will naturally stray, but since women are more sentimental & tied into a relationship with children, social stigmas, etc., they're less likely to (or to be caught, depending on your opinion). if the man you're seeing believes he's reached the pinnacle of his dating career, he's going to do all he can to keep you.

c) just like pfunk said, it's having the comfort and security that whomever i'm dating would be willing to do insanely stupid things for me not because i needed them or i asked for them, but because they make me happy (liek buy a new shirt and tie because he's already worn all of his other ties to dances and i don't want the pictures to look the same, or drive long distances to go to a small boutique and find a specific dress i had offhandedly mentioned coveting but hadn't been able to find anywhere).

at the same time, if the relationship is truly unbalanced it obviously won't work. it is creepy when a boy cannot watch a movie because he is too busy staring at you.

[Aloysius]

[ QUOTE ]
it is creepy when a boy cannot watch a movie because he is too busy staring at you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh - learn something new every day.

Nice breakdown - I think what you've said explains DN's OP very well.

-Al

[El Diablo]

fluff,

"a) i don't want to be hurt, and if he likes me more and it doesn't work out, then it's not going to be particularly hurtful"

I'm almost the opposite. It often pains me much more to see someone else hurting badly than to be in pain myself. It's pretty much the worst feeling possible for me. I really do think I'd rather be left to deal with my own pain than to know I've caused that kind of pain in someone else.

[fluffpop62]

el d, dearest,

i completely see what you're saying. the thing is, i can trust myself not to get into a situation where i would be dating someone as a means to an end (say a boy getting into a relationship because he wants to have someone to sleep wiht on a regular basis). i won't know what someone else's intentions are until it's too late.

[flair1239]

Women usually have a greater emotional stake in the relationship. I don't think the statement in the OP is necessarily true.

But I will say a guy has to have a major stake in the relationship for it to work long term. Basically you have an 18 month grace period before the endorphine induced sex fog wears off. Then you are just living day to day life.

If at that point a guy has it stuck in his head, that "[censored] I could do better than this any day of the week"... and has the attitude that he is "doing her a favor putting up with her [censored]"... then there will be trouble.

Basically a guy needs to be with a woman near the top of his range; who satisfies his basic needs. I don't just mean sexually although that plays a part. The needs differ for guys. Personally I like feeling appreciated, relevant, and I like to be heard. Along with the sex my present marriage fulfills those needs. I know I have it good and am not going to endanger my relationship on a whim.

Also another factor is men are kind of like dogs. Dogs like having something that other dogs want. Try this experiment.. take a puppy and put two toys in front of it, let it pick one, then start playing with the other one. Chances are the puppy will try to take the toy from you. So like dogs, men need to feel like other men might want "his woman"; that idea that other men want her... make her relative value increase (to the man she is with).

A final thing is your average looking woman has much more sexual options than your average looking guy. So because they have more opportunities for relationships both sexual and otherwise, they are better able to sort out what they really want in a long term relationship. I think this is a reason for the Hot Girl/Ugly Guy phenomena... the girl has found qualities she likes... and the guy has it good and knows it... so know way he is going to [censored] it up.

That's the way I see it... of course I am biased, because I happen to the Ugly guy in a Hot Girl/Ugly guy relationship.

[NLSoldier]

"it is creepy when a boy cannot watch a movie because he is too busy staring at you."

its worked out ok so far...

seriously though, I pretty much feel the same as tpf.

also for those saying then why do jerks get girls? etc...
I think the confident jerkish qualities may attract the girl in the first place or w/e but if they are legitamately a jerk to her for the extent of the relationship either the guy is probably dating down or the relationship is not very good.

[VoraciousReader]

I agree with a lot of what you said fluffpop.

Also, it has always seemed to me that when guys are really excited about a girl, they fall harder and with fewer reservations than girls do. Guys may let themselves slide into comfortable relationships with girls they like "enough", especially if the girl is persistent. However, when a guy meets a girl that he genuinely feels "wow, how incredibly lucky I would be to be with her" he falls in love much more quickly and more deeply...and wants a commitment much faster.

I actually think men are the true romantics of the two genders. It just seems that when they think you are "the one", they want to seal the deal. It wouldn't surprise me if the reason there are so many "commitment-phobes" is because so many guys are in relationships with girls that they aren't really wowed by, but are too lazy to look for someone else. And like fluff says, when they are crazy about her, they will do some absurd things just to make their girl happy. When I see my guy do something like that, I don't care about the little irritating things...so I don't nag him about them (ok...MOSTLY don't nag about them /images/graemlins/grin.gif). It also makes me want to spoil him and be his refuge the way he does for me. The whole relationship is lovelier.

So, if a guy doesn't clearly pursue me in the beginning, and appear to like me more, I don't see much point in continuing, because I never want to be that girl that some guy likes "enough" to keep around for sex and food for 7 years.

[Farfenugen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
guys are much more likely to cheat.

[/ QUOTE ]

sometimes I wonder if this is just a lie we tell ourselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

I want to say there are studies which suggest women cheat as much or more than men. Maybe someone ambitious can research this. I am sure there have been sociology or psychology studies on this exact issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.australianpaternityfraud.org/news/Globe_and_Mail_Mommys_Little_Secret.htm

There you go.

[Evenkeal]

[ QUOTE ]
because guys are much more likely to cheat.

[/ QUOTE ]

wrong

[DeezNuts]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
because guys are much more likely to cheat.

[/ QUOTE ]

wrong

[/ QUOTE ]

All the people saying wrong, please provide some type of evidence.

I cannot believe that women cheat more than men.

[Farfenugen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
because guys are much more likely to cheat.

[/ QUOTE ]

wrong

[/ QUOTE ]



All the people saying wrong, please provide some type of evidence.

I cannot believe that women cheat more than men.

[/ QUOTE ]

See link above.

[fish2plus2]

fluff,

"i don't think i would ever exclusively be with someone who i wasn't positive liked me more then i liked them."

"in the beginning there's no way i'd be comfortable unless i knew he was completely smitten."

"it is creepy when a boy cannot watch a movie because he is too busy staring at you."

From your posts Ive read of yours, you seem like a cool person, that said, I dont trust anything comes out of any chick's mouth. You guys all seem lost in a confused world of magazines and television, and so often, the words out of your mouth seem to contradict your actions.

[Gobias Ind.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
guys are much more likely to cheat.

[/ QUOTE ]

sometimes I wonder if this is just a lie we tell ourselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

I want to say there are studies which suggest women cheat as much or more than men. Maybe someone ambitious can research this. I am sure there have been sociology or psychology studies on this exact issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://www.australianpaternityfraud.org/news/Globe_and_Mail_Mommys_Little_Secret.htm

There you go.

[/ QUOTE ]

The article reads,

"Between 30 and 50 per cent of women cheat on their partners, compared with 50 to 80 per cent of men, said Dr. Lipton, a psychiatrist with the Swedish Medical Center in Washington who last year co-wrote The Myth of Monogamy with her husband, David Barash."


I grew up in a monogomous home. I know I'm in the growing minority who's parents have never been divorced. With that being said, I was dumbfounded by this number. I find it staggering that the %s, although fairly broad, are this high.

[Georgia Avenue]

I used to agree with sentiments in OP, at least for myself, not really as a general rule. I spent 8 years trying to please a demanding nutcase, waking up every morning and asking myself the Chris Rock question: "What can I do today to make this bitch happy?" That worked out: not well. Now I prefer women that like me enough to chase after me. Adsman said he gets bored with chicks who worship him...that's the young man's perogative. I'm almost 30 dammit, give me a chick that bakes me cookies and laughes at 100% of my jokes.


--GA

[SlowHabit]

[ QUOTE ]
fluff,

"a) i don't want to be hurt, and if he likes me more and it doesn't work out, then it's not going to be particularly hurtful"

I'm almost the opposite. It often pains me much more to see someone else hurting badly than to be in pain myself. It's pretty much the worst feeling possible for me. I really do think I'd rather be left to deal with my own pain than to know I've caused that kind of pain in someone else.

[/ QUOTE ]
Amen.

[fish2plus2]

"Since telling the father could trigger a breakup and leave the child without proper support, the hospital keeps the secret."

WTF

[fish2plus2]

"Morgan Wise remembers how in 1999 the doctor rose from his chair, walked around the desk and sat down in front of him. Mr. Wise's youngest son had been diagnosed with cystic fibrosis years earlier, but a medical test showed Mr. Wise did not carry a CF gene.
"My first thought was that they must have misdiagnosed my son," the 40-year-old railway engineer from Big Spring, Tex., said in an interview this week.
But then the doctor looked him squarely in the eye and said: "Morgan, do you have any reason to think this boy might not be yours?"

The possibility seemed outlandish. He had been married to the same woman for 13 years and they had had three boys and a girl before they broke up in 1996. But for peace of mind, he decided to go ahead with paternity tests.
In March, 1999, the results arrived by mail -- a creased piece of paper telling him that not one of the three boys was his.

"I felt anger toward [my first wife] and sadness, and I felt so sorry for my kids," Mr. Wise recalled. "I told my boys, 'I love you all, you'll always be my sons, the only difference is now I'm not your birth father.' "
Despite this revelation, a district court judge ruled that Mr. Wise had to continue paying child support for the three boys. Based on a 500-year-old common law, most states operate on the presumption that a husband is the father of any child born to his wife during a marriage.

Mr. Wise took his case to the media, hoping to generate political support and contact other men in a similar situation. Instead, he angered the judge, who revoked his visitation rights to the children but left him responsible for $1,100 (U.S.) in monthly support."

Hahahahahaahha.

[grando]

this is the worst beat ever

[guids]

That judge should be given the death penalty.

[daxtrader]

Don't ever give a girl your time. You can be crazy about her but just don't show it if you plan on staying with her. Keep her wanting more. Attack her insecurities. This way she'll always try to impress you and be after you. Never talk about your own insecurities. Lie if you have to.

[NajdorfDefense]

That does seem high, but Robin Baker reported studies of men in the 1940s showed 47-49% of men frequented prostitutes at least once, which sounds absurdly high, but there it is. 15% said they visited regularly.

What would it be today?