NL 50: KK faces Allin preflop - very very deep

[Dr_Mabuse101]

Villain is 50/2/1,2 over 100 Hands.
Prima Poker skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $68.45
UTG+1: $20.70
Hero: $124.24
Button: $49.75
SB: $123.44
BB: $80.15

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $2</font>, Button folds, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $6.5</font>, BB folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $22</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises all-in $116.94</font>. Hero ?
Villain is loose but no idiot. So what to do here ?

[munkey]

very deep I call the 3bet to 6.5 and let villan play a 3bet pot OOP deep -use our advantages and put villan to hard decisons, we can also control the pot size better.

yes we have to play pokah but our range is wide/more deceptive and villan is now in a tricky[read able to make costly mistakes] situation.

Look out for a Kxx rag flop FTW

[eigenvalue]

You have to ask that question BEFORE you 3-bet. If you 3-bet with the intention to fold to a 4-bet, you shouldn't reraise but call. Generally, I like a call in your spot more than a reraise because you have position on him. Look at the stack sizes. This leads me even more to the decision to see a flop in position and reevaluate on the flop.

Now, after his 4-bet, it's a very tough decision.

[holyfield5]

with deep stacks, and KK you need to think of pot control the second he reraises you. call and get to a showdown as cheaply as you possibly can. I hate when im really deep stacked +200 BB and some aggro-donk is also deep stacked. because they really dont make deep stack considerations they just spew and push me off of hands right and left because i cant play when they inflate the pots so massively......it feels good when you finally catch something worthwhile though.

[banana182]

Is this thread a joke?

I can't believe responders are discussing pot control.

PUSH PUSH PUSH. Anyone who folds KK PF needs to seriously analyze their play.

This forum is filled with NITS!

[maccamack]

Like others have said, I think you should have just called the re-raise. This deep, as played, I fold.

If you were 100 BB I think calling is fine -although you just know you are going to be behind more often than not. It is relatively rare at low stakes NL that someone four bets with anything less than AA. Generally we know the people who can four bet light pretty quickly - this villian does not sound like one of those.

[KurtSF]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this thread a joke?

I can't believe responders are discussing pot control.

PUSH PUSH PUSH. Anyone who folds KK PF needs to seriously analyze their play.

This forum is filled with NITS!

[/ QUOTE ]

They are nearly 300BB deep. This is finally a hand where you do not go all-in with kings preflop.

[barryc83]

Villain is 50/2 over 100 hands really? He's only raised 2 out of his 100 hands? I wouldn't repop here just bc of this. I'd fold barring a read that he was at least mildly retarded. He's got the nuts here like always IMO. I'm all for stacking off KK vs AA 100bb deep, but being 250bb deep changes things.

[Sir Winalot]

I'm with munkey (Edit: and eigenvalue for once in a while /images/graemlins/shocked.gif) here, I think I only call the 3-bet because we have position, we're deep and villains pfr% is only 2.

As played, looks like a fold to me given your read and that we're so deep.

I think folding is correct here if you have the discipline to do it. I have only once folded KK like this once in a 200NL live game with 300+ stacks, and I knew the villain good enough to know he had AA.

[ QUOTE ]
Is this thread a joke?

I can't believe responders are discussing pot control.

PUSH PUSH PUSH. Anyone who folds KK PF needs to seriously analyze their play.

This forum is filled with NITS!

[/ QUOTE ]

You don`t even take into consideration that villain has only raised 2% PF over 100 hands. What do you expect him to have when he shoves for over 200bb. AA-KK with the later being very unlikely.

[Maneh]

I only fold Kings with an EXCELLENT read.

2% are JJ+ probally;

vs Unknow I call here 100% of the time!

[KurtSF]

[ QUOTE ]
I only fold Kings with an EXCELLENT read.

2% are JJ+ probally;

vs Unknow I call here 100% of the time!

[/ QUOTE ]

JJ+ is 2%, yes, and so is KK+ and AK, which you are ahead of but much less so.

The problem is that villain RAISES 2% of hands. What % do you think he re-re-re-raises? With 250BB at stake? I'm going with 0.5% - yeah, aces only.

Correct answer here is to call the first raise and reevaluate on the flop with position.

[prodonkey]

I agree.. while 100 hands is not a lot, it gives you an idea of how they play.. if you're going to be using PT and HUD, at least use it and follow the info it gives you. I'm not stacking K's here 250 deep vs a guy that plays a ton of hands, but only raises a few and he's willing to 4 bet for all his chips