25NL 98s, flop top pair, turn brings flush draw

[davidyang]

Villain in this hand is TAG I suppose. I'm not sure if I should have made this play or not. During the hand I felt like I had fold equity plus a ton of outs if I'm behind. However, I'm beginning to think how much FE could I have had against a player on 25NL, even a TAG. Most TAGS at this level are probably going to be willing to play for stacks with an overpair here, possibly even top pair. When he fires again on the turn, it was very suspicious, I don't think he does this with two overs, unless he picked up a flush draw too. Given my read, is my turn push just terrible? Is there any value for the push here? Should I just have called/folded instead?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $25.25
UTG+1: $8.20
CO: $22.60
Hero: $24.95
SB: $44.95
BB: $20.85

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $1</font>, 2 folds, Hero calls, 2 folds.

Flop: 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($2.35, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG bets $1.5</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($5.35, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG bets $5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises all-in $22.45</font>.

[orange]

looks fine. calling again is okay as well, as your draw is disguised and noone ever hits the runner runner flush /images/graemlins/smile.gif. i would also dump PF alot from an UTG raise.

[davidyang]

I actually really like calling with speculative hands when TAGs raise in position. I know when they raise UTG, their hand ranges are at the top of the list, but that's precisely why I want to play with those, because if I flop big, most times TAGs are not folding an overpair at this level. However, I understand where you're coming from.

[orange]

[ QUOTE ]
I actually really like calling with speculative hands when TAGs raise in position. I know when they raise UTG, their hand ranges are at the top of the list, but that's precisely why I want to play with those, because if I flop big, most times TAGs are not folding an overpair at this level. However, I understand where you're coming from.

[/ QUOTE ]
yeah but if your just folding whenever you dont hit anything i would dump more often pf. unless your floating/bluffraising flops/etc. both of which are unecessary at 25nl.

[davidyang]

[ QUOTE ]
yeah but if your just folding whenever you dont hit anything i would dump more often pf. unless your floating/bluffraising flops/etc. both of which are unecessary at 25nl.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's what I figured you were getting at when you said more often you would just dump it pre. However, I do tend to float, then bluff turns when checked to against TAGs. Sometimes, since I know how TAGs play, they become terribly predictable, and I like to start loosening up then. Like you said though, I don't think it's totally necessary at NL25, but I still feel like if I'm making these plays against the right opponents, it can be somewhat profitable, and I believe it helps me with a ton of different parts of my game.

[orange]

sure. but i wouldnt worry about getting too much FPS like many do until you move up a bit /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[KurtSF]

You are just short of having pot odds to call on the turn. You either need to have implied odds to call (will villain stack off if you hit?) or you need fold equity to shove (is villain capable of a fold?). Without either of those conditions this is a fold on the turn.

I like your line.

[davidyang]

[ QUOTE ]
You are just short of having pot odds to call on the turn. You either need to have implied odds to call (will villain stack off if you hit?) or you need fold equity to shove (is villain capable of a fold?). Without either of those conditions this is a fold on the turn.

I like your line.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I said in my original post, I had him on my hud as a TAG, and it seemed to fit with how I saw him play so far. So I felt I did have some FE in this hand. However, I was completely shocked at what he called me with on the turn (yes he called). It made me second guess if this is really a good play at this particular level.

[davidyang]

[ QUOTE ]
sure. but i wouldnt worry about getting too much FPS like many do until you move up a bit /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you might be right. When do you think these types of plays would be more profitable? 100NL, 200NL?

[orange]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
sure. but i wouldnt worry about getting too much FPS like many do until you move up a bit /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you might be right. When do you think these types of plays would be more profitable? 100NL, 200NL?

[/ QUOTE ]
yep, i think so. 100nl is probably your first big jump.

[Vyse]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
yeah but if your just folding whenever you dont hit anything i would dump more often pf. unless your floating/bluffraising flops/etc. both of which are unecessary at 25nl.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, that's what I figured you were getting at when you said more often you would just dump it pre. However, I do tend to float, then bluff turns when checked to against TAGs. Sometimes, since I know how TAGs play, they become terribly predictable, and I like to start loosening up then. Like you said though, I don't think it's totally necessary at NL25, but I still feel like if I'm making these plays against the right opponents, it can be somewhat profitable, and I believe it helps me with a ton of different parts of my game.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I do this as well. TAGs are extremely predictable so I like to exploit that.