a hand i watched at .5/1

[natzucowww]

utg+1 (no stats, $72 stack) limps, fold, <font color="red">button (tag, $120 stack) raises to $5</font>, sb folds, bb holding 88 (tag, $120 stack) calls, <font color="red">limper rr's to $9</font>, both call

Flop: K84 rainbow ($27)

bb checks, utg+1 checks, button checks.

Turn 5 completing rainbow ($27)

<font color="red">bb bets $19</font>, <font color="red">utg+1 min rr's to $38</font>, button folds, bb . . .


Question #1 (in white)

<font color="white">if you are bb do you fold or shove? (utg+1 has 22ish left)</font>

Question #2 (in white)

<font color="white">if you are bb and utg+1 has you covered do you fold, call or shove?</font>

[Antinome]

With the EP LRR UTG+1 is representing AA,KK. On the flop I feel I'm WA/WB. I'm not thrilled by the checking, or the minraising, but I still feel it is pretty close. If I call it is all getting in on the river anyway, and I'm indifferent to any card other than an A or 8 falling. Push, call, whatever. Without reads I'm never folding. Deeper I definitely call to avoid knocking AA out of his range, and I don't mind a cheapish showdown. Way, way deeper I might play it all completely differently.

[and12006]

For question 1 I'd would most likely shove in because if I called it'd probley go in on the river anyways. Inless I have some big reads on villian and he has a tendancy to limp overpairs like KK I might fold.

Question 2 I'd call and call a good sized bet on the river might even raise it, I couldn't really justify going AI on the turn because I don't think AK would call you so the only two hands I could see calling are AA or KK which one has you beat. WIthout reads I'd never fold aswell.

[Keyser.]

Go all in. Plz don't consider folding effectively the second nuts when a shortstack donk who LRR can have hands other than KK (namely AA, AK).

[bsheck]

UTG+1 has KK. I make the hero fold.

[natzucowww]

coo, the way the hand went down i was like yeah he def. has kk, cause why wouldn't he bet the flop w/ AA on a shortstack and then min/raise the turn. he had it, but i was interested in if laying down a set of eights is poss. here. ride on soldiers.

[bsheck]

Did he really have it?

[Keyser.]

[ QUOTE ]
coo, the way the hand went down i was like yeah he def. has kk, cause why wouldn't he bet the flop w/ AA on a shortstack and then min/raise the turn. he had it, but i was interested in if laying down a set of eights is poss. here. ride on soldiers.

[/ QUOTE ]

why didn't he reload preflop? why did he limp-re-minraise? b/c he's a DONK. Seriously, folding here is very bad.