PDA

View Full Version : 25NL JJ, lost everywhere...

davidyang
02-04-2007, 05:23 PM
Villain who 3bets is a LAG. Likes to see a TON of flops about 60%+ and raises about 20% of his hands. However, at this level, I love playing against LAGS because they are usually terrible post flop players. Pre-flop is the call ok here, or should I 4-bet this? I wasn't sure, because there is a TON of action in front of me.

On the flop, I feel like SOMEONE has to have a hand that beats me. Is this a clear fold on the flop? Even if I don't give villain credit, there are other people behind me. Thoughts, suggestions?

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $89.95
UTG+1: $23.65
CO: $47.25
Hero: $26.35
SB: $24.75
BB: $21.70

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $0.85</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises to $3.25</font>, Hero calls, 2 folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($13.35, 4 players)
UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets $10.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero ????</font>
ama0330
02-04-2007, 05:34 PM
Very easy fold. I would even lean towards a fold preflop, but given your read the call is okay, but bear in mind that its only JUST okay.

Again, super easy fold on the flop.
iamVillaiNmo
02-04-2007, 05:35 PM
Welcome to McFoldersons. How would you like a pre-flop fold with that? LOL.

Just kidding...I dont see folding preflop but the way the action is post. this is a easy fold.
davidyang
02-04-2007, 05:39 PM
Does anyone 4-bet this considering my read on villain, or is this spewy even against a LAG?

Also, I felt like it was the right play at the time, but after two people went all in on this hand, it really got me second guessing myself, after seeing their hands.
ama0330
02-04-2007, 05:40 PM
JJ is never a 4 betting hand. At these stakes you should only 4 bet AA/KK because you are really only folding out worse and being called by better. I never go ai with less than KK.
iamVillaiNmo
02-04-2007, 05:41 PM
I dont think you need to 4bet with position and especially with JJ. This is more a call for set value. Im sure one of them has KK
homeslice
02-04-2007, 05:43 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone 4-bet this considering my read on villain, or is this spewy even against a LAG?



[/ QUOTE ]

Given your read of ur villian, calling PF is fine... you have position on him.

If this villian was behind you, and came over the top of you PF, I may push...
davidyang
02-04-2007, 05:44 PM
Yeah, I agree that usually, if not always JJ is not a 4-betting hand, I was just throwing that out there.

However, assuming I'm just calling with JJ for set value, does it change at all if I had something else like 77-99 or something along those lines?
iamVillaiNmo
02-04-2007, 05:44 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone 4-bet this considering my read on villain, or is this spewy even against a LAG?



[/ QUOTE ]

Given your read of ur villian, calling PF is fine... you have position on him.

If this villian was behind you, and came over the top of you PF, I may push...

[/ QUOTE ]

Why on earth would you ever push with JJ here?
davidyang
02-04-2007, 05:46 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone 4-bet this considering my read on villain, or is this spewy even against a LAG?



[/ QUOTE ]

Given your read of ur villian, calling PF is fine... you have position on him.

If this villian was behind you, and came over the top of you PF, I may push...

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmmm, this is very interesting.

I don't have a ton of hands at 25NL since I just recently moved up, but at this level is anyone, including crazy LAGs c-betting this flop without at least a big pair against this many opponents?
davidyang
02-04-2007, 05:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Does anyone 4-bet this considering my read on villain, or is this spewy even against a LAG?



[/ QUOTE ]

Given your read of ur villian, calling PF is fine... you have position on him.

If this villian was behind you, and came over the top of you PF, I may push...

[/ QUOTE ]

Why on earth would you ever push with JJ here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was wondering this too. Does villain ever call with something like AQ/AJ or TT? The only thing I might beat would be AK, and even then I'm flipping.
iamVillaiNmo
02-04-2007, 05:49 PM
Pushing here is def. a terrible play.
NHBuddy
02-05-2007, 04:33 AM
To everybody that said a call preflop is fine but an easy fold post flop, I have a question for you guys.

That reasoning doesn't make one bit of sense to me.

Exactly what kind of flop are we hoping for to continue on that flop? A set?

Would you call 13BB flat with a hand like 33 OTB?

Or are we hoping that the preflop re-raiser is all the sudden going to get weak and check the flop????