Best Games in the US?????

[Jorge V]

I have noticed there are lots of post about the best games in certain cities or areas. I was wondering where the best midlimit games (20-40 to 100-200) in the US are located. I would like for people to name the specific game and the actual cardroom or casino and not just a city in general. Hopefully some people can share their opinions. Thanks

[*TT*]

COMMERCE - LA, CA.

Nothing comes close.

TT

[Don Olney]

Yep, Commerce is the place.
It still blows me away when people say they are moving to Las Vegas to try to make it as a pro. They should be heading to So Cal. Commerce, Hollywood and the Bike are cash loaded.

[otter]

The only thing is that it's a lot more expensive to live in CA than it is in Vegas.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
The only thing is that it's a lot more expensive to live in CA than it is in Vegas.

[/ QUOTE ]

If your a pro, that doesn't matter. You go where the games are, and let nature sort out the rest.

PS: If your a pro and playing 20/40limit or 2/5NL daily then its a miserable day to day existence anywhere you are.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[sandman-54]

Would the best 10-20 limit and 1-2 blind no-limit games also be in L.A.? Also, are there any places where poker is now new where the games at these stakes are really good right now?

As an aside, I've read that the average cost of an apartment was $735 in L.A., while only $575 in Vegas. With the quick population expansion in Vegas, though, the prices may rise in the near future.

[bellatrix]

[ QUOTE ]
Would the best 10-20 limit and 1-2 blind no-limit games also be in L.A.?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't know about the 1/2 NL. But the 9/18 game at Commerce is so soft that it's like walking on clouds. And around this time with people playing in the LA poker classic it's even softer. 20/40 just means that people won't be capping with 24o, but it's very easy, too.

[gobboboy]

[ QUOTE ]
Yep, Commerce is the place.
It still blows me away when people say they are moving to Las Vegas to try to make it as a pro. They should be heading to So Cal. Commerce, Hollywood and the Bike are cash loaded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Loc: Las Vegas

lolz

[dzero]

[ QUOTE ]

As an aside, I've read that the average cost of an apartment was $735 in L.A., while only $575 in Vegas. With the quick population expansion in Vegas, though, the prices may rise in the near future.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure about Vegas, but that number seems way low for Los Angeles.

[Frond]

Haven't yet played Commerce, only Oceans 11, Pechanga and Haw. Gardens here in So Cal. Havd only played LHE at 3/6. Should I expect anything very much different at Commerce for the lower limits than these other joints? Even looser and softer?

[sandman-54]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

As an aside, I've read that the average cost of an apartment was $735 in L.A., while only $575 in Vegas. With the quick population expansion in Vegas, though, the prices may rise in the near future.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure about Vegas, but that number seems way low for Los Angeles.

[/ QUOTE ]

I got my information from rent.com

[amulet]

commerce probably has the best limit games in the world. and the most games.

however, most los angeles clubs, have weak games too. hustler, hollywood park, etc. you can't go wrong in los angeles.

as long as they keep the slots out of the LA clubs the games should remain weaker then other clubs.

[Yossarian147]

it's about the same, 6+ seeing the flop, 3-4 to the river. there are just a heck of a lot more tables (20+ 4/8 tables are typical).

[ QUOTE ]
Haven't yet played Commerce, only Oceans 11, Pechanga and Haw. Gardens here in So Cal. Havd only played LHE at 3/6. Should I expect anything very much different at Commerce for the lower limits than these other joints? Even looser and softer?

[/ QUOTE ]

[stinkypete]

3/6 is going to be a donkfest no matter where you go

[Jimbo]

If by "best" you mean the softest and most profitable the correct answer is in most any country club in the US. Casual players with a great deal of expendable income, all you need are manners and an invite. Easiest way to make a living playing poker or most any other skill game.

Jimbo

[bob2007]

I'd love to move to L.A., but can't seem to get a job offer (recent Canadian business undergraduate). But I'd definetly make a trip there sometime soon.

Jimbo, how do you manage to get an invite? I only get invited to underground games run by questionable characters.

[MLSchaff]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

As an aside, I've read that the average cost of an apartment was $735 in L.A., while only $575 in Vegas. With the quick population expansion in Vegas, though, the prices may rise in the near future.

[/ QUOTE ]
Not sure about Vegas, but that number seems way low for Los Angeles.

[/ QUOTE ]

I got my information from rent.com

[/ QUOTE ]

"Average" isn't a good number to look at when talking about rents in LA. LA is big and most of it is really, really nasty and shady. Plan on spending AT LEAST $1K per month for a one-bedroom apartment in a decent neighborhood, and that is on the low end.

Of course on the up side, all of the casinos are in those nasty, shady areas - so if you want to live close to the casinos you could probably get a cheap apartment. Use the extra cash to buy a gun.

[David LoPan]

[ QUOTE ]
COMMERCE - LA, CA.

Nothing comes close.

TT

[/ QUOTE ]

OK

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only thing is that it's a lot more expensive to live in CA than it is in Vegas.

[/ QUOTE ]

If your a pro, that doesn't matter. You go where the games are, and let nature sort out the rest.

PS: If your a pro and playing 20/40limit or 2/5NL daily then its a miserable day to day existence anywhere you are.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF ???

Also, TT if you're a big limit pro why are you living in Las Vegas and not in Los Angeles?

[Packard]

How bad is the new increase in rake been at the Commerce for the 6-12 and 9-18 games?

Does it make them extra hard to beat?

Is there now a time charge for those games at the Commerce?

Thanks

[amulet]

TT the comment about how much people make and lower limit players having a "miserable existance" seemed unnecessary. Some player start our at low limits, build their banlroll and move up.

What makes one person happy is not the same for everyone.

I own a very successful company and likely make more in less then a week then you make in a year. Does that mean I have a right to judge if you are miserable?

I usually enjoy your posts and hope you take this response in a positive way.

[The Ocho]

[ QUOTE ]
TT the comment about how much people make and lower limit players having a "miserable existance" seemed unnecessary. Some player start our at low limits, build their banlroll and move up.

What makes one person happy is not the same for everyone.

I own a very successful company and likely make more in less then a week then you make in a year. Does that mean I have a right to judge if you are miserable?

I usually enjoy your posts and hope you take this response in a positive way.

[/ QUOTE ]

fwiw, i took tt's post to read that if you are playing live 20-40 limit or 2/5nl for a living you will have to grind a billion hours a year, which is probably going to be miserable.

[rageotones]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
TT the comment about how much people make and lower limit players having a "miserable existance" seemed unnecessary. Some player start our at low limits, build their banlroll and move up.

What makes one person happy is not the same for everyone.

I own a very successful company and likely make more in less then a week then you make in a year. Does that mean I have a right to judge if you are miserable?

I usually enjoy your posts and hope you take this response in a positive way.

[/ QUOTE ]

fwiw, i took tt's post to read that if you are playing live 20-40 limit or 2/5nl for a living you will have to grind a billion hours a year, which is probably going to be miserable.

[/ QUOTE ]

2nd

[Photoc]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
TT the comment about how much people make and lower limit players having a "miserable existance" seemed unnecessary. Some player start our at low limits, build their banlroll and move up.

What makes one person happy is not the same for everyone.

I own a very successful company and likely make more in less then a week then you make in a year. Does that mean I have a right to judge if you are miserable?

I usually enjoy your posts and hope you take this response in a positive way.

[/ QUOTE ]

fwiw, i took tt's post to read that if you are playing live 20-40 limit or 2/5nl for a living you will have to grind a billion hours a year, which is probably going to be miserable.

[/ QUOTE ]

2nd

[/ QUOTE ]

3rd and wholeheartedly agree. There are some people who absolutely love poker and play it no matter what. But there are more players that you can see are miserable the entire time they are at the table. I mean, there's just so more to be doing in life that grinding out 20 bucks an hour playing poker.

I'm not meaning that as a bash towards anyone in particular. That is meant towards the people who are miserable doing so ONLY. Yet it confuses me why they still do it. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[csuf_gambl0o0r]

for the money obv

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
COMMERCE - LA, CA.

Nothing comes close.

TT

[/ QUOTE ]

OK

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The only thing is that it's a lot more expensive to live in CA than it is in Vegas.

[/ QUOTE ]

If your a pro, that doesn't matter. You go where the games are, and let nature sort out the rest.

PS: If your a pro and playing 20/40limit or 2/5NL daily then its a miserable day to day existence anywhere you are.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

WTF ???

Also, TT if you're a big limit pro why are you living in Las Vegas and not in Los Angeles?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't play professionally, I wouldn't walk away from my career even though I probably could make more playing professionally. I probably put in no more than 20 hours/week on average playing poker. And who said I am a big limit pro? I have never made that claim. I am not playing high at the moment but until recently my regular game was 40/80 with some 20/40 games thrown in when 40 was bad or unavailable, with rare (luckily winning, it would have sucked financially if I didn't) stabs at 100/200. I chose to live in Vegas not for the games, I live hear for the quality of life. I hate LA traffic and love the desert weather, and the cost of living is rather low. Regardless my goal is to get out to Commerce 1x/month whenever possible, the games there are unbelievably good.

As for the WTF - you know that statement is true, grinding out 50 hour weeks at 20/40 is not a glamorous lifestyle, its a miserable way to make a good living. On average assuming you are a 1BB/hour winner in the long run thats 2k/week, or 104,000/year. Yes I agree thats a good wage but is it worth it? Most players have dreams of moving up, which means they need to put away at least 1/2 of their earnings for their bankroll. Now your working 50 hour or more work weeks every week of the year for a bit more than 50k. And you need to pay your taxes, get health insurance, etc or your will ruin the ability to do things like maintain your credit, or buy a house/car etc.

Can you make a living that way? Sure. Is it possible for you to be happy living that way? Sure. But for most people its a miserable way to live - in the long run. Its just fine for for the short term of course. Its going to be interesting to see all the 5/10 multitablers switch to live games now that its rather hard to transfer money to online rooms, they are going to be significantly disappointed with their quality of life vs time investment in the game compared to how they used to live.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
TT the comment about how much people make and lower limit players having a "miserable existance" seemed unnecessary. Some player start our at low limits, build their banlroll and move up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I started out at .50/1 online with a $99 bankroll, and 2/4 live with no bankroll for what it's worth. We are talking about playing professionally, and as my last post elaborated on its not a fun way to live. I'd much rather play 5/10 online 4 tables than playing 20/40 live for a living if I had a choice between the two, its a much more flexible way to live. I personally wouldn't consider the quality of life worth playing for anything less than 30/60 limit professionally of you want to have a nice quality of life.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
Would the best 10-20 limit and 1-2 blind no-limit games also be in L.A.? Also, are there any places where poker is now new where the games at these stakes are really good right now?

As an aside, I've read that the average cost of an apartment was $735 in L.A., while only $575 in Vegas. With the quick population expansion in Vegas, though, the prices may rise in the near future.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't imagine a decent, safe apartment in LA as cheap as $735 per month.

LA no longer has 10/20 limit. Instead you have action orientated 8/16 and 9/18 games.

The 1/2 NL games are all played with small fixed buyins (usually $40 and sometimes $50 to $100 spread buyin). They can't be beat for serious money on a consistent basis.

~ Rick

[AKQJ10]

[ QUOTE ]
They can't be beat for serious money on a consistent
basis.

[/ QUOTE ]

To reiterate what I said on another thread, I find that hard to believe. Well, maybe the "serious money" provides the difference.

I found Foxwoods $1-2 pretty beatable when it was $100 max. I know the rake is worse in LA -- although I found $5/hh pretty unpleasant too! -- but I can't imagine an extra couple of dollars in rake + BBJ would make the $1-2 unbeatable unless the players were also somewhat better.

[amulet]

i think you need to check the avg income in the US. i am certain that it is tough to live on the numbers we are discussing, however, most people are living on less. and many have families.

[amulet]

and that is a personal choice.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
i think you need to check the avg income in the US. i am certain that it is tough to live on the numbers we are discussing, however, most people are living on less. and many have families.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think you quite get it... how many pro players do you know who are interested in making 50k/year before taxes & healthcare? Not a single one that I have ever met. Yes you can make a living, yes you can survive. But its not a comfortable living, and you have to give up most of your waking day to survive.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[amulet]

i understand. and i am not looking to get into an argument. however, 50K by the US avg income standards is not bad.

and momey and happiness are not related. money and easy of life are related.

i think most people want and need to make more money.

[sandman-54]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Would the best 10-20 limit and 1-2 blind no-limit games also be in L.A.? Also, are there any places where poker is now new where the games at these stakes are really good right now?

As an aside, I've read that the average cost of an apartment was $735 in L.A., while only $575 in Vegas. With the quick population expansion in Vegas, though, the prices may rise in the near future.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't imagine a decent, safe apartment in LA as cheap as $735 per month.

LA no longer has 10/20 limit. Instead you have action orientated 8/16 and 9/18 games.

The 1/2 NL games are all played with small fixed buyins (usually $40 and sometimes $50 to $100 spread buyin). They can't be beat for serious money on a consistent basis.

~ Rick

[/ QUOTE ]

I got my information from rent.com. I apologize if I am spreading ignorance.

[sternroolz]

[ QUOTE ]
i understand. and i am not looking to get into an argument. however, 50K by the US avg income standards is not bad.

and momey and happiness are not related. money and easy of life are related.

i think most people want and need to make more money.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not bad in BFE middle america where $30K buys a mobile home, $60-70K buys a 20 year old house in a crummy neighborhood, $90K buys a nice newer 1800sq ft house, and $120K buys a very nice 2500 sq ft house.

But 50K a year isn't so great in Vegas where a one bedroom in a decent area goes for $800 plus a month or Los Angeles where it's $1000+ a month. Also factor that living in one of these areas in either city puts you a several miles from the place where you will work(the casinos). Also factor in higher gas costs, higher car insurance costs, etc. TT is spot on in this matter.

Also, I can't fathom how someone in this situation deals with a major life catastrophe. I have life & disability insurance through my employer that will pay me 100% of salary for short term disabilities and 66% of my current salary for any permanent disability. What the heck does a pro poker player do if he gets hurt and can't play poker anymore? If hes a $100-200 limit player, he might have saved up quite a bit. Plus I'm guessing a 100 grand BR. But the $20-40 guy?

[WYDGD]

[ QUOTE ]
i understand. and i am not looking to get into an argument. however, 50K by the US avg income standards is not bad.

and momey and happiness are not related. money and easy of life are related.

i think most people want and need to make more money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Money and Happiness are not related? Take of the rose colored glasses.....Don't know too many happy broke folks.

[David LoPan]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i understand. and i am not looking to get into an argument. however, 50K by the US avg income standards is not bad.

and momey and happiness are not related. money and easy of life are related.

i think most people want and need to make more money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Money and Happiness are not related? Take of the rose colored glasses.....Don't know too many happy broke folks.

[/ QUOTE ]

you're an idiot...pick up a book once in awhile, realize that materialism is for the ignorant

necessity is what is important

[WYDGD]

"you're an idiot"....Wow, sharp, biting, well worded insult

2nd grade name throwing and you are telling me to pick up a book? You can do better than that! If you are going to insult me, at least be creative.

And you made my point, necessity costs money.

[David LoPan]

[ QUOTE ]
"you're an idiot"....Wow, sharp, biting, well worded insult

2nd grade name throwing and you are telling me to pick up a book? You can do better than that! If you are going to insult me, at least be creative.

And you made my point, necessity costs money.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can safely assume by the tone in your posts that you have no money so you think that money is the answer to your problems...

you are wrong sir

[WYDGD]

I hope you are better at reading hands than you are at reading posts on this site. I do just fine and don't have any problems, but thanks for the concern.

Just keep responding to everything with "You're an idiot", you will go far!

[Gary The Retard]

[ QUOTE ]
I hope you are better at reading hands than you are at reading posts on this site. I do just fine and don't have any problems, but thanks for the concern.

Just keep responding to everything with "You're an idiot", you will go far!

[/ QUOTE ]

Dont [censored] with LoPan...he's a demon