Thoughts On This Statement.....

[ThaSaltCracka]

"I would rather you hate me for who I am, than like me for who I am not"


A friend of mine told me that this was his mentality with people. Before I give my thoughts on his view, I would like to see what you guys think about this.

[iron81]

I gotta tell ya, having people hate you sucks hard. I mean if people like you, they're going to treat you right no matter what the reason is. I think I could live with a little dishonesty there.

[ThaSaltCracka]

FWIW, I don't think the statement is neccesarily black or white. There is some gray area involved. Clearly you don't want people to just hate you, nor would you want to act in a way that would just piss most people off because you don't care what people would think of you. Don't think of it that way.

[[censored]]

this one of those things that I think people like to agree with but in practice most people would really prefer to be liked even if requires not being fully understood

It of course changes as the types of relationships become closer and more intimate

[Big Poppa Smurf]

The trick here is just to be someone people don't hate for who they are. Generally, this would basically just mean not being a huge douchebag. This way you aren't selling out by putting on an act so people will like you, but you won't be a douchebag so people won't hate you, and you get the side benefit of being a better person.

[ThaSaltCracka]

Question, do you think that statement is applicable in certain environments? Specifically at work.

[Potvaliant]

[ QUOTE ]
The trick here is just to be someone people don't hate for who they are. Generally, this would basically just mean not being a huge douchebag. This way you aren't selling out by putting on an act so people will like you, but you won't be a douchebag so people won't hate you, and you get the side benefit of being a better person.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's still a matter of priorities though - what if, for example, someone decides that honesty is the most important virtue?

I'm not talking about someone who says, "You're a fat, ugly moron" unprovoked. But extremely honest people are going to be lacking in tact and diplomacy, and disliked because of it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's not necessarily our flaws that make people dislike us.

For the record, I agree with the quote in OP; and I don't have alot of friends, but the ones I have are very good and loyal friends.

[Golden_Rhino]

As long as who he is doesn't involve him being outwardly racist, or mean spirited, I could get behind a statement like that. The problem is that it sounds like something a douche would say to justify whatever douche like thing he just said. It's the intellectual version of "well, I was just being honest".

[Six_of_One]

[ QUOTE ]
Question, do you think that statement is applicable in certain environments? Specifically at work.

[/ QUOTE ]

At work, this statement is only applicable if you don't care about whether you ever get promoted or not. If you're fine at whatever level you're at, and getting fired wouldn't really bother you, then by all means, let people hate you for who you are.

As an aside, I've known people who espoused this philosophy before, and they were all dicks.

[[censored]]

GR,

exactly there isn't anything wrong with the statement in theory but in practice it and similar reasoning is used to justify [censored] behavior. Often you will get this from girls who want to be bitchy, using the often heard "i'm just being honest" etc. When in reality they were taking an opportunity to be needlessly rude or mean and then wanting to justify it.

[Big Poppa Smurf]

You can be honest and tactful at the same time. And if you can't be tactful, you can be quiet.

As [censored] pointed out, "i'm just being honest" is just like saying "i'm just kidding dude, relax" after you've been a douche.

[Potvaliant]

Obviously the honesty example was ill-advised, but that really was secondary to my point, which was that it's not always our flaws that we're hated for.

Would you agree with this statement if you were gay? An abortionist? Salman Rushdie? A muslim, or, in many parts of the world, an American?

[Big Poppa Smurf]

Pot,

Those people are either distanced from myself, or else they hate me for something that is most likely out of my control (race/sexual orientation/being born in America) or for things I strongly believed in (religion). Nothing I do is really going to change their mind, so no sense worrying about it!

[Potvaliant]

[ QUOTE ]
Nothing I do is really going to change their mind, so no sense worrying about it!

[/ QUOTE ]

But theoretically, you could try to make them like you by pretending to be something you're not, right? Of course it's highly situational, but that's the point I was trying to make.

I remember hearing a few years ago about American tourists in Europe sewing Canadian flags onto their backpacks. While I understand the motivation, and honestly would have been tempted, I'd prefer to be the type of American I am and let the cards fall where they may.

[kidcolin]

"You can be honest and tactful at the same time. And if you can't be tactful, you can be quiet."

Sums it up nicely. I consider myself brutally honest, but when I was younger I'd definitely play the "honest" card to justify a good ribbing I'd give someone who got on my nerves. Now I try to just keep my mouth shut, though for some situations that's difficult.

It's all about using your judgment. At work, it's probably best to keep everybody as happy as possible.

[Mickey Brausch]

[ QUOTE ]
"I would rather you hate me for who I am, than like me for who I am not"

[/ QUOTE ]

Suppose your friend is a paedophile but he has never murdered a child in his life. You are supposed to hate him for molesting children but he prefers this over you liking him for not murdering them.

It all sounds like justification for being an arrogant scumbag.

[Potvaliant]

Actually, I think it'd be more that he'd prefer you'd like him because you didn't know he was a pedophile. Not that that makes much of a difference really.

But again, I think it's situational. Suppose your friend was gay, and he knew you were a homophobe who couldn't deal with having a gay friend. Should he stay in the closet because he wanted you to like him?

[Potvaliant]

Actually, how about this example - I remember reading a thread in OOT or something a while ago about a guy who met a girl online, set up a date, etc.

They went out, had what he thought was a good time. At some point during the night the conversation turned to jobs. He said he was a poker player. The next day she e-mailed him, and said basically that you are a degenerate and I can't see this going anywhere, so I'd rather not pursue this. (I don't remember the details, she may have been less accepting the night of the date and less harsh the next day, but this is generally what happened.)

He seems to have liked her, or at least been interested, and was angry at her dismissal of him, as was everyone who responded in the thread.

If he had the night to do over again, should he have lied about his job?

[ThaSaltCracka]

Ok, all of you guys are completely missing the boat on this one, but its likely my fault for not being more clear.

In essence, my friends statement is all about being yourself. Be original. Don't put up a front to make people like you. His statement isn't his way of justifying being an ass hole. Far from it in fact, as my friend is not an ass hole, nor am I. I agree with his sentiment.


A specific example, I actually spoke with my friend about a situation at work. People may not know me all that well, on here, some more than others. Anyway, outside of work I am a very laid back guy. I love having fun, and joking around, bsing with friends. At work I am different. I am very driven and very critical of processes and procedures. My bosses love this. They want constant improvement, and so do I. The majority of the people at my work could care less. They would rather things stayed the same and are very opposed to change. Clearly we have a differing opinion on this matter, and it adversely effects our work relationships. My friend made that statement to me about how he is at work, and I think its spot on. Do what you need to do to do your job.

I think the statement should be looked at in this light. To me it has different, but equally iportant, meanings for both work and personal relationships.

BTW, I consider myself to have about 5-6 great friends and numerous aquaitances (sp). So clearly I am not an ass hole

[traz]

I'd rather you like me for who I am, than who I am not. That being said, I'd rather you like me than hate me, so I'll be whatever the hell you like.

That's probably more representative of how most people think.

For me, here's the thing. If you don't like me for who I am, then you probably suck, because there's nothing wrong with me and there's lots to like. Therefore, I'm fine with acting myself because if you don't like me it's your loss.

So it ends up being the same result, but I get there by a different process of thoughts. I don't want to be hated, but if you hate me, then you probably aren't worth my time anyways.

[4_2_it]

That phrase is something that only 17 year olds and emo people worry about.

Anyone whose central theme in life is worrying what others think about them is in for a not very happy existence.

[kickpushcoast]

that seems like a statement you would see on a 19 yr old girl's myspace page

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyone whose central theme in life is worrying what others think about them is in for a not very happy existence.

[/ QUOTE ] Actually, thats precisely the point of the statement. You are not concerned with how people perceive you, or what people think of you.

[fnord_too]

Context is important. If he is saying this unconditionally, then in the case of someone he finds sexually attractive this is tantamount to saying:

"I would be rejected for who I am, than [censored] til I can't stand for who I am not"
(hate-sex aside)

Ummm, I cannot say I agree with that. I also probably wouldn't agree with the original statement in regards to most non friend aquaintences. If you really are so different in ideology that you hate me for who I am, I probably am not going to mind if you do the right thing from my perspective because you don't understand me.

[fnord_too]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Anyone whose central theme in life is worrying what others think about them is in for a not very happy existence.

[/ QUOTE ] Actually, thats precisely the point of the statement. You are not concerned with how people perceive you, or what people think of you.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are not concerned with these things why would you be concerned with whether you are understood or not? The statement IS concerned that people perceive the speaker as he perceives himself. This is very different that saying something like "I am who I am and [censored] you if you don't like it"

[KJS]

[ QUOTE ]
"I would rather you hate me for who I am, than like me for who I am not"


[/ QUOTE ]

My initial thought: Who I am when I am acting against my beliefs about my "real" nature is still me.

If I act 'out of character' around certain populations of people then I am someone who acts different around certain populations. I am not being 'who I am not'. Kind of a cop out, I realize, but I think the originator of the quote does not delve into the idea that the masks we wear are all us.

KJS

[wslee00]

[ QUOTE ]
As long as who he is doesn't involve him being outwardly racist, or mean spirited, I could get behind a statement like that. The problem is that it sounds like something a douche would say to justify whatever douche like thing he just said. It's the intellectual version of "well, I was just being honest".

[/ QUOTE ]
spot on - i know it's been quoted already, but this is the answer

[Yawning Chain]

Being honest, even painfully so, is always better in the long run. What I have a problem with is people who use a statement like, "I would rather you hate me for who I am, than like me for who I am not" as a justification for acting like an a**hole.

[Mickey Brausch]

[ QUOTE ]
Suppose your friend was gay, and he knew you were a homophobe who couldn't deal with having a gay friend. Should he stay in the closet because he wanted you to like him?

[/ QUOTE ]If the statement is supposed to mean "I am what I am, whether you like it or not - and I wouldn't mind even if you'd hate me for what I am", then I'm alright with it.

Didn't Popeye said as much, already?