Underage and made >20 000$USD

[sadlaws]

Hi everyone,

I am 17 yrs old.

I started playing poker a few months ago on an online poker site and I won a freeroll. I gambled the money and earned +-20 000$USD. I tried to cash out a part of that money using a friend's neteller account, but this failed attempt catched the attention of the poker site and they required me to provide documents attesting my identity.

Here is the problem: I am going to be 18 yrs old in march 2007 and I'm wondering if I'd get into any trouble. I have not invested 1 penny in the site and I'm now with quite a lot of $$$ (mostly playing on cash games NLHE 2$-4$ and 5$-10$).

My questions:
1) Is this site allowed to keep the money I gained?
2) If so, what legal means can I use against them?
3) Any suggestion for cashing out my money?

- A desesperate poker player

Your advice would be greatly appreciated!

[PartysOver]

scan id, change b-day

they really don't care, you just have to alter 1 digit in 2-3 places

i would know nothing about doing this for myself and having it work

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[GutPunch]

Busted!

Its usually not a good idea to break the law...
And its an even worse idea to break a sites TOS when they are holding a large portion of your money...

[Zele]

1/ Yes.
2/ None.
3/ Always be polite. This is extremely important.

[NickMPK]

You shouldn't gamble underage.
They hope they do keep your money because I certainly wouldn't want to play on a site that paid out to cheaters.

[psilocybin]

So you don't think he 'earned' that money?

In what way was he cheating players?

[HERE_2_gamble_]

Is your account locked?
Surely you didnt use your name for the account?

[D.L.M.]

if you had just asked for a check it wouldnt be a problem

[Gobgogbog]

[ QUOTE ]

You shouldn't gamble underage.
They hope they do keep your money because I certainly wouldn't want to play on a site that paid out to cheaters.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also let's hope they don't pay players in WA because it's illegal to play from there and therefore cheating.

[Botchman]

[ QUOTE ]

You shouldn't gamble underage.
They hope they do keep your money because I certainly wouldn't want to play on a site that paid out to cheaters.

[/ QUOTE ]
Comparing underage gambling to cheating is just ridiculous, I don't see how the hell you come to that conclusion

[oober]

Your screwed... Kiss it goodbye... They will want bill in your name also.... And they will always do check of balance in reguards to your birthday... These sites are smart enough to find ways to keep your money....

[spacebetween]

[ QUOTE ]
scan id, change b-day

they really don't care, you just have to alter 1 digit in 2-3 places

i would know nothing about doing this for myself and having it work

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[/ QUOTE ]I did it when I was 17 and it worked well on several occasions.

[quinn]

some would find a friend who's of age, have them make an account, and then dump the money to them

[KEW]

Wait until you are of legal age before you withdraw..If you have a "legal" friend that play you may be able to make small inter account transfers to him and have him WD for you..Do not try anything stupid like chip dumping..

But you all ready opened a can of worms by trying to WD..

[tuds38]

Did you really work up a $20,000 roll without cashing out once?

[Leader]

My questions:
1) Is this site allowed to keep the money I gained?

Yes

2) If so, what legal means can I use against them?

None

3) Any suggestion for cashing out my money?

Wait until you're over 18 and then tell them the truth. The worst that is likely to happen then is they cash you out and tell you that your business is no longer welcome. If they are requiring you to give them some info now, I'd still go with the truth. Sites aren't generally in the business of seizing money. So just hope they're in a good mood and cash you out. In the future, do a little more thinking before you try to lauder money.

[jluker7]

dude.. just tell them that:

A. You dont have a neteller account, therefore you thought it would be ok to use his. and you are very sorry.
B. Tell them that U have never cashed in before and that you won it all on a freeroll. so you are new to the legal things.
C. "Wait till your over 18" then cash out. Is the correct thing to do. Then just let them know the whole thing.
D. Dont chipdump. they will take your money if you do this.
E. Pray.

[Babygrand]

You have lost your money, my friend. A buddy of mine lost $5,000 because they thought he was involved in a chip dumping scheme, which he was not. Online poker sites violate laws and clearly do not care. You have no action against them whatsoever. Casinos confiscate underrage winnings all the time. It happened to my buddy in Mt. Pleasant, MI about 6 years ago. Your best chance is to get a fake ID with your name and address on it. They will not run a background check, it isnt worth their time.

[NickMPK]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You shouldn't gamble underage.
They hope they do keep your money because I certainly wouldn't want to play on a site that paid out to cheaters.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also let's hope they don't pay players in WA because it's illegal to play from there and therefore cheating.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because the sites operate across many bodies of law, I think "cheating" is defined by what violated the terms of service of the site and not the local laws. Is it against the terms of service at the site in question to play if you live in Washington state? (I don't know the answer)

[NickMPK]

[ QUOTE ]
So you don't think he 'earned' that money?

In what way was he cheating players?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what you mean by "earned". I guess drug dealers "earn" their money to, in that they do have to work for it. That doesn't mean they deserve to keep it.

[sadlaws]

I don't think this is a valid argument. It's not because I am underage that I don't deserve my money.

In other words, you are comparing poker pros to drug dealers and you're telling me that I got that money cheating. I don't agree at all. Ok, I broke the law by playing underage, but I played my cards as anyone and it has nothing to do with "cheating".

If you consider winning money at playing poker is not "earning" money, then what are you doing on this forum ?

I have an idea for cashing out which doesn't involve chips dumping or fake id. But I definitely won't tell the truth to the site.

[Unabridged]

fake id is the only way to go.
dumping or telling them will make them take your money. i don't know what your other idea is, but its probably trading money to another site(hopefully to an over age player) or dumping.
just alter your birthdate in photshop

[Beavis68]

[ QUOTE ]

You shouldn't gamble underage.
They hope they do keep your money because I certainly wouldn't want to play on a site that paid out to cheaters.

[/ QUOTE ]

are you being sarcastic or are you really this dumb?

[sadlaws]

Well actually, if I alter my birth date on my ID.. my account will be OK for "cash out" mode. The problem is that if I want to cash out with neteller, firepay or credit card... will I have to tell neteller or firepay my fake birthday ? If so, is there a way for them to verify my info. using my bank account?

The other alternative would be to ask for a cheque...

[Unabridged]

i would just get a check. no need going through neteller, ...

[bcubed72]

[ QUOTE ]
You shouldn't gamble underage.
They hope they do keep your money because I certainly wouldn't want to play on a site that paid out to cheaters.


[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO

Apparently, this poster finds poker playing in general to be a noble profession, yet playing at a young age is "cheating" and equivalent to being a drug dealer.

Since I KNOW no 2+2er would ever be a hypocrite, I'm sure we'll find that this poster:

1. Never smoked <18
2. Never drank <21

If this guy was to answer honestly, I'd give 10:1 odds that he did either of these (and probably both) and even money that he had a fake ID at some point. Seriously, I bet this hypocrite was at a kegger on a weekly basis or more.

Since my dad took me to the horse races (and placed my bets) from age 8 onward, I feel SO [censored] GUILTY about "cheating" those poor racetracks over all those years.

[DMoogle]

You might want to create a new e-mail address (preferably from a different domain, e.g. if your current address is xxxx@gmail.com, make a new one at yyy@yahoo.com), and e-mail them asking if they would let someone who played at their site while under 18 withdraw their funds when they turned 18.

If you play at a smallish site, then this might be kinda risky. I don't think they often have a lot of people's funds locked up, so it might arouse a little suspicion.

Getting a fake I.D. or altering the one you already have is a good idea too.

[NickMPK]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You shouldn't gamble underage.
They hope they do keep your money because I certainly wouldn't want to play on a site that paid out to cheaters.


[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO

Apparently, this poster finds poker playing in general to be a noble profession, yet playing at a young age is "cheating" and equivalent to being a drug dealer.

Since I KNOW no 2+2er would ever be a hypocrite, I'm sure we'll find that this poster:

1. Never smoked <18
2. Never drank <21

If this guy was to answer honestly, I'd give 10:1 odds that he did either of these (and probably both) and even money that he had a fake ID at some point. Seriously, I bet this hypocrite was at a kegger on a weekly basis or more.

Since my dad took me to the horse races (and placed my bets) from age 8 onward, I feel SO [censored] GUILTY about "cheating" those poor racetracks over all those years.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I don't think it is equivalent to being a drug dealer. Perhaps that was an imprecise example. Let's try this: I think someone who sells cigarettes to a minor earns the money he makes on the sale just as much as when they sell to an adult, but that doesn't mean they deserve the money.

BTW, I have never smoked and never bought or attempted to buy alcohol before I was 21 (except when I was in a country where the drinking age was different). I did consume alcohol prior to that age, but I don't think that is illegal if freely given to me in a private location.

I also have no interest in gambling against minors, and I rely on the websites I use to guard against the possibility. If they sites have to use draconion measures to prevent this, I applaud them. As we are already seeing through the passage of UIGEA, underage gambling threatens the existence of my hobby for those of would like to engage in it legally.

Honestly, the whole tenor of this thread seems to be encouraging minors to circumvent the sites' efforts to obtain age confirmation, which is just giving fodder to the people who want to eliminate online gambling poker entirely.

[Unabridged]

[ QUOTE ]
You might want to create a new e-mail address (preferably from a different domain, e.g. if your current address is xxxx@gmail.com, make a new one at yyy@yahoo.com), and e-mail them asking if they would let someone who played at their site while under 18 withdraw their funds when they turned 18.

If you play at a smallish site, then this might be kinda risky. I don't think they often have a lot of people's funds locked up, so it might arouse a little suspicion.

Getting a fake I.D. or altering the one you already have is a good idea too.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is not a good idea. but if you do it, make sure you use a proxy when you send the email

[oober]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You shouldn't gamble underage.
They hope they do keep your money because I certainly wouldn't want to play on a site that paid out to cheaters.


[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO

Apparently, this poster finds poker playing in general to be a noble profession, yet playing at a young age is "cheating" and equivalent to being a drug dealer.

Since I KNOW no 2+2er would ever be a hypocrite, I'm sure we'll find that this poster:

1. Never smoked <18
2. Never drank <21

If this guy was to answer honestly, I'd give 10:1 odds that he did either of these (and probably both) and even money that he had a fake ID at some point. Seriously, I bet this hypocrite was at a kegger on a weekly basis or more.

Since my dad took me to the horse races (and placed my bets) from age 8 onward, I feel SO [censored] GUILTY about "cheating" those poor racetracks over all those years.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I don't think it is equivalent to being a drug dealer. Perhaps that was an imprecise example. Let's try this: I think someone who sells cigarettes to a minor earns the money he makes on the sale just as much as when they sell to an adult, but that doesn't mean they deserve the money.

BTW, I have never smoked and never bought or attempted to buy alcohol before I was 21 (except when I was in a country where the drinking age was different). I did consume alcohol prior to that age, but I don't think that is illegal if freely given to me in a private location.

I also have no interest in gambling against minors, and I rely on the websites I use to guard against the possibility. If they sites have to use draconion measures to prevent this, I applaud them. As we are already seeing through the passage of UIGEA, underage gambling threatens the existence of my hobby for those of would like to engage in it legally.

Honestly, the whole tenor of this thread seems to be encouraging minors to circumvent the sites' efforts to obtain age confirmation, which is just giving fodder to the people who want to eliminate online gambling poker entirely.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with Nick here... The government is using the phrase"let's keep our kids safe". This just gives their argument backbone...

But luckily enough your a winning player, but that doesn't change the fact, quite a few parents have no idea what their kids are doing, therefore the gov. is gonna jump in and watch them for us....

Thanks for proving their point....

[ASmith84]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You might want to create a new e-mail address (preferably from a different domain, e.g. if your current address is xxxx@gmail.com, make a new one at yyy@yahoo.com), and e-mail them asking if they would let someone who played at their site while under 18 withdraw their funds when they turned 18.

If you play at a smallish site, then this might be kinda risky. I don't think they often have a lot of people's funds locked up, so it might arouse a little suspicion.

Getting a fake I.D. or altering the one you already have is a good idea too.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is not a good idea. but if you do it, make sure you use a proxy when you send the email

[/ QUOTE ]

Emails do not show your IP address..

[NoTalent]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You might want to create a new e-mail address (preferably from a different domain, e.g. if your current address is xxxx@gmail.com, make a new one at yyy@yahoo.com), and e-mail them asking if they would let someone who played at their site while under 18 withdraw their funds when they turned 18.

If you play at a smallish site, then this might be kinda risky. I don't think they often have a lot of people's funds locked up, so it might arouse a little suspicion.

Getting a fake I.D. or altering the one you already have is a good idea too.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is not a good idea. but if you do it, make sure you use a proxy when you send the email

[/ QUOTE ]

Emails do not show your IP address..

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL
http://www.stopspam.org/email/headers.html

[sadlaws]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree with Nick here... The government is using the phrase"let's keep our kids safe". This just gives their argument backbone...

But luckily enough your a winning player, but that doesn't change the fact, quite a few parents have no idea what their kids are doing, therefore the gov. is gonna jump in and watch them for us....

Thanks for proving their point....

[/ QUOTE ]

First, I am Canadian.

Second, I am 18 yrs old in 1 month.

Third, I see your point, but the thing is that I don't see how the government protects me from anything since I have never invested a penny in gambling. Even if I wanted to I could not loose money.

Still, I see your point and I think it would be appropriate for me to be able to cash out and be banned from the poker site for violating the minimum age. I could also receive some kind of amend for doing something illegal like when you get caught underage in a bar... but is it really worth 20 000$. Did I really do something that much bad? Do I really deserve a 20 000$ ticket ?? People who do high speed on the highway get like a 500$ ticket... I didn't threaten anybody's life and I would get a 20 000$ ticket ???

That doesn't really make sense to me.

[jh12547]

I work at one of the Indian Casinos up here in Connecticut. There was a case a few years ago where a kid who was 19 was playing Caribbean stud and hit a Royal Flush for about 200k . Well they found out his age when he needed to show ID and they didnt pay him. He fought this for a while but never got a cent of the money. Now i know this isnt the same exact situation and i hope you get paid but my guess is you can kiss it goodbye.

[PropPlayer]

I don't think the site was mentioned. I wouldn't advice posting that info either.

If it is Party then the waiting till you are 18 and then cashing out they money thing won't work.

Your best bet is create whatever documents you need to and then cash out through check.

[aceupthepants]

Hey I have a somewhat similar question regarding editing one’s identification. When I signed up to play poker I put the shortened form of my name Dan, instead of Daniel. Now I have to send them identification proving I am who I say I am, will this difference cause a problem? Would I be able to cash a check written to the shortened form of my name?

[xxbleedgreenxx]

Anyone ever heard of Stu Unger?

[joker122]

what country are you in?

[LuckyTxGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
I also have no interest in gambling against minors, and I rely on the websites I use to guard against the possibility. If they sites have to use draconion measures to prevent this, I applaud them. As we are already seeing through the passage of UIGEA, underage gambling threatens the existence of my hobby for those of would like to engage in it legally.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

[SixT4]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You shouldn't gamble underage.
They hope they do keep your money because I certainly wouldn't want to play on a site that paid out to cheaters.

[/ QUOTE ]
Comparing underage gambling to cheating is just ridiculous, I don't see how the hell you come to that conclusion

[/ QUOTE ]

Clearly underage people's brains haven't degenerated as much, and therefore they have an advantage.

[DMoogle]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

You shouldn't gamble underage.
They hope they do keep your money because I certainly wouldn't want to play on a site that paid out to cheaters.

[/ QUOTE ]
Comparing underage gambling to cheating is just ridiculous, I don't see how the hell you come to that conclusion

[/ QUOTE ]

Clearly underage people's brains haven't degenerated as much, and therefore they have an advantage.

[/ QUOTE ]
You know, this is kinda true. The whole reason certain types of gambling is prohibited in certain places until a person is 18 or 21 is responsibility, but everybody matures at a different pace (and some not at all). There certainly are 16- and 17-year olds that ARE responsible enough to gamble with real money, and the OP very well might be one of them.

The first thing most people would say if they read an article that said "John Doe is a 16-year old who plays poker online for nearly four hours a day, everyday, for thousands of dollars" is "Oh, that's terrible!" But honestly, some young people CAN manage themselves (although they ARE in the minority), and poker can teach certain skills, specifically bankroll management.

I would like to emphasize that the minors that can handle themselves are in the OVERWHELMING minority.

[WhoIam]

1. Request a check
2. Open a bank account using the check the day you turn 18.

As for the ID stuff, online gambling sites are not going to rigorously investigate your documents the way the FBI would in a counter-terrorism probe. They just want to see an ID with your picture and name on it and a piece of mail addressed to you.

[sadlaws]

I finally got my account confirmed by the poker site by providing my real cards, now that I am 18!

I can cash out with no problem now !

Thx for the support, good luck all !

[Pog0]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I also have no interest in gambling against minors, and I rely on the websites I use to guard against the possibility. If they sites have to use draconion measures to prevent this, I applaud them. As we are already seeing through the passage of UIGEA, underage gambling threatens the existence of my hobby for those of would like to engage in it legally.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

[/ QUOTE ]

A big problem is that the system in place only prevents you from playing against WINNING players that are underage. They don't have any regulations in place to prevent underage losers from playing.

edit: and it's only the underage losers that will create ammunition for the anti-gambling advocates, not the winners, so the sites are doing nothing to prevent situations that look bad for online poker with regards to underage gambling whether they keep this kid's money or not.

[Rhett]

Whoa, no fake id? That was really risky. Well, congrats, get that money out ASAP.

[ QUOTE ]
I finally got my account confirmed by the poker site by providing my real cards, now that I am 18!

I can cash out with no problem now !

Thx for the support, good luck all !

[/ QUOTE ]

[josh_x]

I'm only 17 and have cashed out plenty of time by having sites mail me a check. Usually checks in the neighbourhood of $500-1k every now and then. It has worked fine. I have lots of different accounts with different names in order to get rakeback etc. I've transfered and immediately cashed out, all that jazz, never had any worries. Oh and i've cashed the check into my own bank account. I've never had to send an ID or anything, and i've deposited by borrowing someones credit card.

Also FU to anyone who is against underage gamblers.

[nineinchal]

Did you steal your mom's credit card for the buy in?

[ilikeaces86_]

Just have them mail you a check or just transfer it to someone you know and have them cash it out.