Tipping

[J.Brown]

Tipping is a subject that comes up in casual conversation and what the merits arnd reasons for tipping are seem to widely vary from culture to culture and even person to person.

I think this forum would be a great place to discuss what we tip, who we tip, how much we tip, and most importantly why do we tip. Is it because we have to or want to?

I will gladly lead this discussion off.

I have been, although I am trying to reform a bit, a chronic overtipper. I am not saying this in any balla/big shot sense of the word either, just a fact of life. I like to think that my few dollars, or more than a few dollars in some cases, that constitute a generous tip goes to help make someones life better and feel appreciated for whatever service it is that they provide. This never stopped me from overtipping at the high end places as well. I tend to like to get a reaction or thank you for a tip, so this isn't an entirely self-less act, and I tend to not tip the unseen service people nearly as much as the ones that you have personal contact with.

Tipping has has both a positive and negative effect on my life, here are two examples of negatives.

I stopped spending time with a friend and his wife over a tipping issue when she busted out a calculator at Applebees to compute what percentage of the tip they owed compared with what their food cost and then started (literally) counting out pennies to leave on the table. I personally found that unacceptable for a number of reasons. Is this wrong? Would you choose not to be friends with someone if they were going to actually tip in pennies?

Another reason this subject merits discussion is because in 5 years of marriage the only "real" fight I have ever had with my wife was over my tipping. She said that people think I just don't know how to do math, LOL. I drastically over tipped at a nice place with great service, pre-marriage/my personal money, and my more sensible, but still very generous wife was appalled and let me hear about it.

Anyway all of this has changed recently and I have promised to be a 20% tipper at all restaurants and tip only when it is needed and neccessary elsewhere. ex. no more tipping the people at drive thrus and such for no reason. I am not sure if I like this change, but I made a promise.

There are my examples. So...Why do we tip?

Should we not tip at all for bad service?

Do you not tip or live somewhere where it is not allowed or required? If so how does this effect the service industry in general?

Has anyone on here regretted a tip or regretted not being more generous?

Tell a story about the biggest tip you have given and why?

Tipping is the topic. We want your tips on tipping.

cheers. J.Brown

p.s. please no one say here is a tip "don't play leap frog with a unicorn" or "never run with an axe in your mouth" i have already been given these tips and we are not in oot in more! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[traz]

I've always been of the opinion that the standard of tipping in North America sucks. I pay for the food, the restaurant pays the server, so I'm not sure why I should tip. In alot of occassions, the server does very little to enhance my dining experience, other than bring me my food and write my order. I'd be perfectly happy doing those things myself and not paying a tip.

I feel like it's not right for customer to be "forced" to tip now a days. I'm happy to pay a tip if it's earned, but I want it to feel like a gift. Not like an obligation.

For the record, I'm not a cheap or stingy person, I just don't understand the custom at all.

[PartyPooperGuy]

A tipping thread, in El D's forum? Are we being leveled?

[traz]

[ QUOTE ]
A tipping thread, in El D's forum? Are we being leveled?

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely my first reaction

[XXXNoahXXX]

On $40/day when Rachel Ray tips exactly 15% on her meals when she gets like a glass of water, fries, and a sandwich which comes to like $8. Now obviously the finances are for the sake of the audience, but I can't help but feel that she is making people think its OK to actually tip 15% in this situation.

A waitress seats you and brings you a menu. She then comes back and takes your drink order. She then brings the drink and takes your food order. Then she brings over your fries. Then she refills your drink. Then she brings your food. Then she comes back and checks up on you. Then she brings you bill. Then she handles the transaction and cleans up your table.

Now this may seem like not too much work, and hey, you only ordered some fries and then a burger, but tipping $1.20 for this is insane. And I know that there are people out there that don't see anything wrong with this. My mother is a waitress and her hourly wage is $2/hr. Leave respectable tips, there is a minimum.

So in conclusion, Rachel Ray, stop [censored] encouraging people to tip like Scrooges.

[russellmj]

I tip well, but not overly generous.Usually only tipping in restaurants ~20%.

The best tipped person in my life is my hair person. She gets about 75%. I kinda think of this as insurance.

The only "odd" tip I give is to the lady at Krispy Kreme who never forgets to put a few ice cubes in my coffee. Even if I haven't been there for a month.

Also, because of something El D mentioned a long time ago, I tip housekeeping in hotels.

[J.Brown]

Nice.

This is what i was getting at exactly.

El D's posts on tipping, expanded.

Great point on housekeeping, probably easy to forget, but a very essential group of people who probably are forced to live on their tips.

No you are not being leveled.

J.

[Thremp]

Noah,

I agree. A real question is do you derive your tip from total or subtotal?

[TheWorstPlayer]

I have a lot of thoughts about tipping since I'm a consultant and I am always on the road, in restaurants, in taxis, etc. But I haven't really put my thoughts in any sort of order. One thing that I find is that I'm very inconsistent in my tipping and that my tipping levels are not at all correlated with whether or not I am tipping from my personal finances or from my expense account. I generally tip everyone around 20%. But I also round thing up to even numbers, especially if they are relatively small expenses.

So, for instance, if I take a taxi and it costs $7, I give him $10. If I get a drink at a bar and it costs $12, I leave $15. I think this is fairly standard, but not sure - especially about cabs. I hear people tip just like $1 or $2 no matter the size of the taxi bill. Not sure people's thoughts on that.

I'll try to keep up with this thread and organize my thoughts and keep posting. I am probably in tipping situations more than anyone else in the world. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Edit: Also at restaurants, I tip on the grand total. Including drinks. Including tax. If I order an expensive bottle of wine, I tip on it. I understand the rationale for not doing so, but I do it - I haven't given a lot of thought to why, but it just seems right to me. Generally the service is better at the places where I'm getting nice wine, so that probably plays a part in it.

[Golden_Rhino]

- So...Why do we tip?
Because we all have the image of the single mom, or struggling student working towards a better life in our heads. I'm sure that a couple of extra dollars doesn't mean a lot to all servers, as they are all not financially strapped, but people with a conscience generally will err on the side of caution.

- Should we not tip at all for bad service?
I probably shouldn't, but I do anyway. I always find a way to justify the bad service (it was busy, maybe she is having a bad day etc...) so that I can leave a tip and not feel like a sucker.

- Has anyone on here regretted a tip or regretted not being more generous?
A few years ago I went out and the bill was much higher than I thought it would be. As a result I was only able to leave like a $3.00 tip on a $70 bill. I felt horrible all week, so when I got paid I went back to the bar and gave her $20, and apologized.

- Tell a story about the biggest tip you have given and why?
I rarely tip more than 20% - 25%, but one time I left a $50 tip on a $50 bill. The waitress just looked so tired and worn out. She was the personification of the saying "she had the weight of the world on her shoulders". I was hit by an overwhelming feeling of sadness, and I pictured my sister in that position.

[Claunchy]

[ QUOTE ]
If I order an expensive bottle of wine, I tip on it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Who else does this?

I'm generally a very good tipper, but I never tip on wine because I heard it was unnecessary. Still, I felt kinda dirty when the bill was like $400 and I only tipped like $50. Someone set me straight here (and not one of you cheap-asses who doesn't think anyone should ever get tipped; but rather, a normal person).

[mlagoo]

I've always tipped on the "total" meal (including wine/tax etc), but I'm not sure I'm totally qualified to comment as I've never gone somewhere where, for instance, the total cost of drinks was greater than the total cost of the meal(s). And I just like to tip, the money means so much less to me than it does to the person I'm giving it to. Especially in terms of smaller bills where the difference between 20% and "a little more" is like 5 dollars or something... that's not even a beer, why not make somebody else feel good after they provided me with a nice meal.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Yes, when I went out and the meal was $200 and the wine was $800, I definitely gave pause to the tip. But I tipped on the grand total like always. And then vomited a little in my mouth. But it's all good now.

[mlagoo]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, when I went out and the meal was $200 and the wine was $800, I definitely gave pause to the tip. But I tipped on the grand total like always. And then vomited a little in my mouth. But it's all good now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah see I have little to offer on a situation like this. I'll just take the rest of yous guys advice I guess.... but I'll likely end up tipping on the whole thing, because I wouldn't be buying $800 worth of wine if tipping another $200 was gonna break my bank. But I can certainly understand how that would give reason for pause.

[tabako]

JBrown,

If you are reducing your tipping to "only 20%", can you give us some examples of how much you used to tip?

[mason55]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I order an expensive bottle of wine, I tip on it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Who else does this?

I'm generally a very good tipper, but I never tip on wine because I heard it was unnecessary. Still, I felt kinda dirty when the bill was like $400 and I only tipped like $50. Someone set me straight here (and not one of you cheap-asses who doesn't think anyone should ever get tipped; but rather, a normal person).

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't tip a full 20% on wine but I don't leave it out either. If I have a $200 meal and $800 in wine I might leave $40 (20% of meal) + $80 (10% of wine), obv depending on service.

[Claunchy]

mason,

That seems like the most logical way to do it. Thanks.

[J.Brown]

[ QUOTE ]
JBrown,

If you are reducing your tipping to "only 20%", can you give us some examples of how much you used to tip?

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to realize that generally my tipping totals in actually dollars were smallish, but as a % they were huge. This is what part of what I have promised to curtail.

Examples. I used to leave a $20 for my breakfast/lunch (eating by myself) a few times a week when the total bill was always $8 to $12, but man did I always get great service.

Occasionally tipping 100% on food/drink bills in the $50 dollar range at various bar/grill places. Just leave a $100 bill and get no change back, that type of thing.

Like I said nothing crazy in terms of actual volume of money, but way over the top in most people's view.

Sometimes I wonder why I felt it was neccessary, but sometimes I think I set a precedent and had to continue to tip in that fashion at regular places I frequent. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

J.

[El Diablo]

J,

"Should we not tip at all for bad service?"

I tend to tip less for bad service, but really it's just for me. Let's say the bill is $80. Well, usually I'll leave 20%, making it $96. And then I'd round up to $100. Done. If I receive subpar service, I'll probably leave exactly 15%, or $92. Of course, the server will never know here, they'll just assume that's how much I leave. I stopped worrying about that a while back and understand it's more for myself than anything. Just a little personal statement. On the rare occassion there's something over the top bad, I'll say something to a manager. And if something is really unacceptable, I'll leave no tip. In those cases, the experience was so bad that when I explain what happened (someone's food never arrived and the waitress was outside smoking or something like that) the meal is comped anyway. This has happened just a couple of times ever.

The other night a friend and I had a dinner that was $63. The service was really slow and just off. But not rude or over the top bad. So instead of leaving $75, I left $72. Yeah, like I said, just a little "on principle" thing for myself.

"Has anyone on here regretted a tip or regretted not being more generous?"

I've many times left a place where I contemplated either not tipping and did or left a big tip but it was so special that I feel like I should have just left another extra $20, but no really big deal in either situation.

"Tell a story about the biggest tip you have given and why?"

All-you-can drink brunch one time. After we sent him back yet again, he came back and told us he was really busy. Before we could complain, he asked if it would be OK if he brought us our mimosas and screwdrivers in pint glasses. He got a 100% tip. He chased us down after we had left to personally thank us.

"Sometimes I wonder why I felt it was neccessary, but sometimes I think I set a precedent and had to continue to tip in that fashion at regular places I frequent."

It's pretty easy for this to happen.

[TxRedMan]

i am a huge tipper.

if service is good, i'll leave 25% routinely, and if it's great i'll leave %35.

if service is bad, i'll leave 10%

if service is terrible (only twice i think) i'll leave exactly .02 cents

if my meal is $9.83 total, i'll usually leave $15.00 if it's a place i frequent b/c i like to tip well at places i go to all the time.

i've left several 150% tips before.

[JaBlue]

my tips depend first on the service and second on how hard I think the waitress is working. If I get good service in a crowded place where my meal cost $10 I'll be happy to leave $13. In places like these, I almost never tip less than %20 because the waitresses work their asses off and don't have [censored].

At nicer places I tip much, much less percentage wise. If a bill is $90 total I'm probably giving $100 for decent service. More for excellent service. The way I see it is why should I pay someone more just because they happen to work in a nicer place? The workload is not that different. Sure I may get an appetizer or desert with my meal, but does that really mean they should be getting that much more hourly?

I guess what I'm getting down to is that I think a mostly-standardized flat tip adjusted for service makes the most sense. I'll probably start implementing this with the starting rate of $7/hr for expensive meals and stay with %20ish for cheap meals.

[Golden_Rhino]

[ QUOTE ]
my tips depend first on the service and second on how hard I think the waitress is working. If I get good service in a crowded place where my meal cost $10 I'll be happy to leave $13. In places like these, I almost never tip less than %20 because the waitresses work their asses off and don't have [censored].

At nicer places I tip much, much less percentage wise. If a bill is $90 total I'm probably giving $100 for decent service. More for excellent service. The way I see it is why should I pay someone more just because they happen to work in a nicer place? The workload is not that different. Sure I may get an appetizer or desert with my meal, but does that really mean they should be getting that much more hourly?

I guess what I'm getting down to is that I think a mostly-standardized flat tip adjusted for service makes the most sense. I'll probably start implementing this with the starting rate of $7/hr for expensive meals and stay with %20ish for cheap meals.

[/ QUOTE ]

You might be on to something with the flat rate. Have you ever considered a flat rate for every trip you force the waiter to make? For example, $3.00 per trip, 3 beers, an entree and a dessert would work out to a tip of about $15.00. It is kind of unfair that a waitress making 20 beer runs would get less of a tip than one that had someone order the lobster.

[TheMetetron]

Wow I must be a stingy bastard.

Since when was 15% not the standard? I tip 15% at most restaurants regardless of anything else. If service was bad 10%. If service was really bad they get nothing. This is in the US.

I also tip the barber somewhere between $2-5 depending on how well I know them. Valet's $2 out. Bartenders a buck a drink. Taxi driver's $1-2 per ride. Strippers nothing.

In Argentina, I leave 10% pretty much regardless of the service as a tip; that's standard here and a lot of Argentines don't even tip. I don't tip cabs, except to round up to the next peso or 1/2 peso. I don't tip bartenders. In fact, I don't really tip anywhere except restaurants where I tip 10%. Barber might get a few pesos extra.

[goofball]

I base my tipping policy on the twin pillars of courtesy and efficiency. I try to have restaurant tips average out around 15% rounded up to whatever.

[Michaelson]

Tipping isn't mandatory in Australian the way it is in the US. At decent restaurants (mains upwards of $20, say) I'd guess that a decent majority of patrons tip, but I never feel compelled to, and a lot of my friends I don't think ever tip at all.

And as for things like tipping at bars or barbers or krispy kreme, that just doesn't happen here as far as I'm aware. Sometimes there'll be tip jars at a bar, but as far as I know people just empty some shrapnel into it from time to time. I think I have done this maybe four or five times in my life, and never for a substantial amount.

I consider myself a pretty generous tipper in as far as I'll tip at any restaurant I go to barring bad service, but my rule of thumb is 10%. I have no idea at all whether that is considered standard or stingy by Australian standards, but as so many people I know don't tip at all I tend to feel good about myself just for doing it at all. I used to eat regularly at an Ethiopian restaurant right near where I lived, and I would always tip well there, in the vicinity of 15-20%. The food was so good I didn't think twice. Also, when I was leaving I had a going away dinner there with 8 people which came to about $180, and I left $250 because it was the last time I'd eat there. I had no qualms about that at all. That was the biggest tip I've ever left, though, and I can't see myself leaving another like that any time soon.

I also tip cab drivers if I ever have a small fare. I know that they get half of whatever the fare is, and if I'm embarrassed about getting a taxi when I really needn't and it's a really short trip then I'll make up for it. I'd never think of tipping a cabby if the fare was any more than $15 though.

My guess is that service staff are paid better in Australia than the States, but I'm not sure why there is such a difference. I really like the idea of a tipping culture though. I think it's a nice custom that allows customers to express their gratitude for good service or a good product in a way that matters materially for those who receive it. the attitude that "they're just doing there job, what do i owe them," which I encounter regularly, probably has some merit to it but comes accross as needlessly stingy to me.

[James282]

My minimum tip is 5 bucks, regardless of the bill. After that it's 30%. The extra 10 bucks or whatever makes literally no difference in my life but will make a huge difference in a waitress' night. Tipping less is pretty much ridiculous. If you can afford a 40 dollar tip to make no difference in a person's life you can afford a 50 dollar tip to make their night.

James

[TheMetetron]

[ QUOTE ]
After that it's 30%.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Tipping less is pretty much ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly this is a joke?

[Golden_Rhino]

[ QUOTE ]
My minimum tip is 5 bucks, regardless of the bill. After that it's 30%. The extra 10 bucks or whatever makes literally no difference in my life but will make a huge difference in a waitress' night. Tipping less is pretty much ridiculous. If you can afford a 40 dollar tip to make no difference in a person's life you can afford a 50 dollar tip to make their night.

James

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that if you can afford it, then tip like crazy. You gotta keep in mind that not everyone is rich, and the extra $10 might be more important to me than it is to the waitress.

[duvvard]

[ QUOTE ]
Would you choose not to be friends with someone if they were going to actually tip in pennies?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes I have thrown the change in my pocket on top of bills, which often contains pennies. That's not considered rude is it?

edit- I rarely eat over 15$ meals in restaurants, so its not like im throwing 43 cents on a 20$ bill, usually just a 2-3$ tip.

[samjjones]

Maybe there should be a stickied tipping thread in this forum, since the subject invariably comes up every few weeks or so, and has been discussed at length already. Perhaps an El Diablo tipping FAQ?

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
After that it's 30%.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Tipping less is pretty much ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly this is a joke?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it's not a joke for James, but is not correct or right for lots of other people.

[XXXNoahXXX]

My smallest tip was a single penny at some breakfast place. I was 13 and my little brother was 10 and the lady was horribly rude because we were kids, so I left a penny on top of a little note saying "my mom is a waitress and I always tip very well, so please don't assume two kids aren't worth your time."


The most I have ever left on a tip (%wise) was after a delicious breakfast where the waitress was very accommodating. The bill came to $11 and I left $20.

[lapoker17]

[ QUOTE ]

My minimum tip is 5 bucks, regardless of the bill. After that it's 30%. The extra 10 bucks or whatever makes literally no difference in my life but will make a huge difference in a waitress' night. Tipping less is pretty much ridiculous. If you can afford a 40 dollar tip to make no difference in a person's life you can afford a 50 dollar tip to make their night.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is about where i am on this stuff, but it is worth noting that i am the worst money manager in the world.

[Hoya]

I hope everyone that tips absurdly gives frequently to charities as well.

[lapoker17]

[ QUOTE ]

I hope everyone that tips absurdly gives frequently to charities as well.


[/ QUOTE ]

just worry about yourself there, big guy.

[Hoya]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I hope everyone that tips absurdly gives frequently to charities as well.


[/ QUOTE ]

just worry about yourself there, big guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Chill dawg. I just honestly hope that those who believe "this $10 will help them more than me" carry that with them beyond tipping. There are a lot of people in this world that statement applies to.

[ahnuld]

What is the etiquette on tipping when served by a friend? The exact situation is my friend is a waited at a low-medium priced italian BYOW restaurant. The first time I went I left a very large tip obv. (30%) but iv been back a few times since and my buddy is always my waiter. What is acceptable in that situation. FWIW my friend is a very bad tipper and cheap in general.

[Tree Surgeon]

As someone who worked as a caddie for four years (read: no hourly, only made what $ I was tipped), a large tip really makes it easier to get through the drudgery of another work day. Most people who work for a tip truly appreciate it when they're rewarded; those who don't put forth the extra effort do not. So it has always seemed to me that the best policy is to not set a fixed percentage, but rather to just give what you think is deserved.

[XXXNoahXXX]

Other than going to the place where my mom works, I always felt awkward when being served by friends. Even more so now that I'm out of college. Being served by someone you went to college with is real awkward.

[traz]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe there should be a stickied tipping thread in this forum, since the subject invariably comes up every few weeks or so, and has been discussed at length already. Perhaps an El Diablo tipping FAQ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm hoping that this is the only tipping thread on this forum

[Pudge714]

[ QUOTE ]
My smallest tip was a single penny at some breakfast place. I was 13 and my little brother was 10 and the lady was horribly rude because we were kids, so I left a penny on top of a little note saying "my mom is a waitress and I always tip very well, so please don't assume two kids aren't worth your time."


[/ QUOTE ]

My older brother had a cab driver when he was like 15-16 and drunk with a group of people the cabbie was clearly screwing around with them and trying to drive around forever they ended up telling him where to go and the cab cost $9.75. He gave him a ten and asked for his quarter back.

Another one with him was that he he had like a $5-7 cab or and had like $11 in change so he gave it all to the cabby. The cabbie yelled at him saying stuff "did you make a lot squeegeing today. Squeegie kid" and this continued for a while so he obviously took back his tip.

Despite those two anecdotes I think he overtips in general.


Another semi-intersting tipping story, I'm at a bar I get three drinks which work out to $18.00 it's a crappy college dive bar, I give the bartender a $20. She looks at me and says you realise that is only 12% or something like that. Obviously she was out of line and I almost lost it, but I had better things to do. The things which really bothers me about this story is later in the night I tell this story to my friend who then says "Why are you complaining? You don't know anything about the service industry?" At which point I'm in too shocked at his stupidity to explain to him that in my life as a customer nobody has ever said anything of that effect to me.


Here is a question, which I think is obvious answer, but my dad disagrees with. My barber owns the barbershop so my dad thinks there is no reason to tip him as he gets all the money to begin with. Note a haircut costs $13-$14. Also note that we as a family have been going to him for 20+ years.

[Dids]

Really can't believe this thread exists in here.

A few points.

1- Rachel Ray doesn't always tip 15, sometimes it's 10 to get under her limit. That's why that show is horrible.

2- I think part of tipping well is that in a way I feel empowered to really use my tipping as a voice when I do leave a [censored] tip to reflect bad service. I'm sure that that message hardly ever gets across, but it's a little gratifying for me personally.

3- "I hope everyone that tips absurdly gives frequently to charities as well" No... tipping isn't alltruism, it's a self interested thing I do to get better service when I return for the most part, or a reflection that somebody has done something for me personally. (or that I think you've got a hot ass).

[Hoya]

[ QUOTE ]

3- "I hope everyone that tips absurdly gives frequently to charities as well" No... tipping isn't alltruism, it's a self interested thing I do to get better service when I return for the most part, or a reflection that somebody has done something for me personally. (or that I think you've got a hot ass).

[/ QUOTE ]

Works for me. I was referring to the "they need it more than I do" camp.

[Dids]

That camp is lying to themselves.

This may deserve it's own thread, but I pretty much believe that all people are selfish at their core, and it's basically a lucky coincidence that doing nice things for other people feels really good, so we do it. It's just that it's important to realize that in the end, we're not doing it because we're nice, but because we like how being nice makes us feel.

[J.Brown]

[ QUOTE ]
My minimum tip is 5 bucks, regardless of the bill. After that it's 30%. The extra 10 bucks or whatever makes literally no difference in my life but will make a huge difference in a waitress' night. Tipping less is pretty much ridiculous. If you can afford a 40 dollar tip to make no difference in a person's life you can afford a 50 dollar tip to make their night.

James

[/ QUOTE ]

thank you James. this was point exactly!

[Hoya]

[ QUOTE ]
That camp is lying to themselves.

This may deserve it's own thread, but I pretty much believe that all people are selfish at their core, and it's basically a lucky coincidence that doing nice things for other people feels really good, so we do it. It's just that it's important to realize that in the end, we're not doing it because we're nice, but because we like how being nice makes us feel.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think is probably a widely held belief on this board.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
The extra 10 bucks or whatever makes literally no difference in my life but will make a huge difference in a waitress' night.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. I tend to "overtip" on this same rationale.

[SlowHabit]

My gf and I tip well every time we go out to eat. However, we only tip well when we recieve respectable service. The reason is that we often don't get good services, even in nice restaurants. On one occassion, my gf was pointing out to me how the waitress didn't ask us if we want water or if we need anything as often as those around us. At first I thought it was a coincidence but my gf assured me it wasn't. This might be a little sensitive and I hate using the race card but they were caucasians.

Now I don't blame the waiter/waitress because caucasions generally tip better. Not only that, caucasians (especially the grandma type) complain more to management about bad service more than anyone else. But the question is should I be tipping the waiter/waitress well if I feel my service wasn't as good as those around me?

I'm always polite to waiter/waitress/cashier because my father was once a waiter. Moreover, I just hate jacka.sses that treat these people like shiet. But I have an ego too. So what is your play?

Side note: what is your tip if the owners keep majority of it?

[Golden_Rhino]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Would you choose not to be friends with someone if they were going to actually tip in pennies?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sometimes I have thrown the change in my pocket on top of bills, which often contains pennies. That's not considered rude is it?

edit- I rarely eat over 15$ meals in restaurants, so its not like im throwing 43 cents on a 20$ bill, usually just a 2-3$ tip.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't say it's bad to throw pennies into the tip if it comes with the other change because you obviously have no bad intentions when doing it, but I have been told by waitresses in the past that customers should follow the no copper rule.

[ahnuld]

to avoid giving pennies when the bill is 10.11 or something, just give a 20 and ask for 7 back like you would in a bar.

[El Diablo]

ah: "What is the etiquette on tipping when served by a friend?" Get lots of free stuff, then tip your standard tip + about half the value of the free stuff.

Ja: "If a bill is $90 total I'm probably giving $100 for decent service." Ugh. While I tip 20% as standard, I think 15% is fine. But your tip is far below standard. Note that at a nicer restaurant, the waiter is serving far fewer tables per hour and is also splitting the tip money with more people. Additionally, they are expected to provide you a higher level of service. All of this results in the tip portion of your meal costing more, just like the meal did. Are you paying less than your total bill amount because the nice restaurant charges $3 to $4 for a coffee where the cheaper places only charges $1 to $2? Your policy seems pretty silly to me.

sam and others: Good idea. Actually, I'll probably just lock most tipping threads and point people to the tipping thread list in OOT: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6096323&an=&page=0&vc=1

[ahnuld]

one last question. Since there is no real consensus on the tipping of the wine portion of the meal (10% on that sounds reasonable), should people tip more at a bring your own wine if there is no corkage fee? Seems like the bill is always going to be a good amount smaller and 20-25% of the normal bill should be standard.

[NickMPK]

I usually tip 18% at restaurants on the grand total, to the nearest dollar. But I never order wine so that isn't really an issue. Usually a little less when I get food delivered ($2-3 on a $15-20 pizza). I never tip when I get carryout....I've always heard you aren't supposed to, but there's still that line on the credit card receipt, which always makes me uncomfortable.

[Jcrew]

Here is my formula for tips. Saves alot of time on thinking:

Starting Baseline: 15%
Chick: +5%
Hot Chick: +5%
Good Service: +5%
Exceptional and Personal Service: +5%(On top of good service)
Miserable Service: -5%

[limon]

Nice Guy Eddie: C'mon, throw in a buck!
Mr. Pink: Uh-uh, I don't tip.
Nice Guy Eddie: You don't tip?
Mr. Pink: I don't believe in it.
Nice Guy Eddie: You don't believe in tipping?
Mr. Blue: You know what these chicks make? They make [censored].
Mr. Pink: Don't give me that. She don't make enough money, she can quit.
Nice Guy Eddie: I don't even know a [censored] Jew who'd have the balls to say that. Let me get this straight: you never ever tip, huh?
Mr. Pink: I don't tip because society says I have to. Alright, I tip when somebody really deserves a tip. If they put forth an effort, I'll give them something extra. But I mean, this tipping automatically, that's for the birds. As far as I'm concerned they're just doing their job.
Mr. Blue: Hey, this girl was nice.
Mr. Pink: She was okay. But she wasn't anything special.
Mr. Blue: What's special? Take you in the back and suck your dick?
Nice Guy Eddie: I'd go over twelve percent for that.

Mr. Pink: I'm very sorry the government taxes their tips, that's [censored] up. That ain't my fault. It would seem to me that waitresses are one of the many groups the government [censored] in the ass on a regular basis. Look, if you ask me to sign something that says the government shouldn't do that, I'll sign it, put it to a vote, I'll vote for it, but what I won't do is play ball. And as for this non-college [censored] I got two words for that: learn to [censored]' type, 'cause if you're expecting me to help out with the rent you're in for a big [censored]' surprise.

[El Diablo]

ah,

I generally don't break out wine for a tip, but I'm generally buying $30-60 wines, so that's $6-12 per bottle. If I were regularly buying $300 wines, maybe I'd adjust the tip, but then again not sure I'd really care at that point. The few times I've splurged on really expensive bottles of wine have been special occassions and I didn't even think to adjust down for the wine price. If I took wine to a place that didn't have a corkage fee, I guess I'd probably tip $5 or $10 per bottle.

[natedogg]

I also have a big overtipping problem. I don't know why but I just can't help it. I guess I just feel that servers do a hard job, they mostly deal with jerks and overdemanding customers, and a few extra bucks is nothing to me but goes a long way to making their day better. Plus, if there's any chance of coming back you will be guaranteed to have great service next time.

There are places that I go to regularly where I overtip and now it's routine for the servers to not charge me for drinks or dessert, etc. There is a sushi restaurant my wife and I go to where we were one of the very first customers and we overtipped when the place was empty and getting started. Now it is packed all the time but the owner still always gets us a seat right away and comps us an appetizer.

I'm not really sure what the point is I'm just giving my experiences with tipping big.

natedogg

[El Diablo]

nate,

A combination of being nice + tipping well always leads to stuff like that. And it's not even necessary to overtip any big amount. Tipping 20% and rounding up will definitely be noticed and appreciated if you are a regular. And then if you tip extra for the free stuff you get, your tip will be perceived as even bigger than it is. I think that sort of personal attention and being treated as special is a big reason a lot of us tip a little on the heavy side. And then it just becomes a habit even at places where we're not likely to go again.

[Toro]

This thread has covered mostly restaurant tipping which for me is pretty standard and not complicated. But the ones I have a lot of trouble with is tipping at hotels for the maid and valet parking.

What's the standard tip for these services?

My uncle once told me $1 per day per person for the maid (so if I had a 2 nite stay with the wife it would be $4) but that was 20 years ago so that can't possibly still hold true today. Can anyone help here?

[NajdorfDefense]

For maid service at a hotel, say in Vegas, I typically leave $5/day for two people. If I'm by myself, I sometimes do the same, or leave $10 for 3 days, something like that.

[TiK]

[ QUOTE ]
I also have a big overtipping problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

It ain't a problem. If you can afford it, and if they deserve it, leave that fat tip.

[mlagoo]

[ QUOTE ]
For maid service at a hotel, say in Vegas, I typically leave $5/day for two people. If I'm by myself, I sometimes do the same, or leave $10 for 3 days, something like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

A question related to this -- Does anyone know if tips are divided amongst housekeepers? Because, has anyone else done the thing where you forget to tip for a couple of days in a hotel, then just leave a big tip on the last day? But then it may be a totally different housekeeper, so you are still screwing over the previous one, unless tips are shared. And I have a feeling in a business like that, they are not.

[miajag]

What, if anything, do you guys generally tip for takeout orders? Not talking about fast food or pizza or whatever here obviously, but like a "real" restaurant where you can get your meal to go.

I used to not tip at all in this situation, but lately I have been giving like 10% or so. Thoughts?

[Stuey]

Eld,

I tried to be fair. I tried to give your forum a chance. I really tried.

[elus2]

What type of problems do you guys foresee if a gratuity of say 15% was automatically added to the bill?

Keep in mind that you still have the option of speaking to a manager to remove that gratuity if you don't believe the service you received justifies it. You can also opt to leave extra money if it is deserved.

Some restaurants already do this if you come in with a large party of people but I would extend this idea to everyone else dining out.

[private joker]

Toro -- yeah, I get curious about valet/bell/etc. tips. This past weekend I had checked my duffel bag at the Wynn bell desk while I played poker in the casino. On my way out, I went to get the bag back and the bellman brought it out to me, so I gave him a buck and went over to the taxi stand. I didn't think twice about it since I usually tip a dollar a bag and figured it wouldn't be too little of a tip. But the bellman had a pretty sour look on his face (or maybe I'm reading into it). Should I be tipping more in this situation?

As for valets, I usually tip just a buck or two. If it's like a $7 valet and I have a ten-dollar bill, I'll give the ten. But if it's like a $4 valet I'll just give them $5.

At a casino where it's free valet, I tip them a buck. This thread is making me feel cheap about that.

But at restaurants I tip between 15-20% generally.

I had an argument with my dad about restaurant tips, recently. He worked his way through college as a waiter in NY. He argues that waiters at cheap restaurants should be tipped the same as waiters at expensive restaurants -- that there should be a flat tip regardless of the bill. "Why should I give the waiter over here twice as much just because the food is twice as expensive? He did the same amount of work!"

My response to this is: "The waiters in nicer restaurants generally give better quality service because the job itself is in higher demand, so the management can afford to bring in only the best servers." Who's right here? Obviously there are exceptions and I will overtip a great waiter at a cheap restaurant and undertip crappy service at a nice place.

[KJS]

This is my approach to tipping in general: consider the total outlay for the thing you are consuming as cost + tip, only broken out. Don't think about who gets the money or what they did for it. Think: beers at the bar are $5 ($4 + $1). I have found that most price + tip transactions are still within my acceptable range for what things cost ($5 beer, for example). It is just a diffent custom for delivery a wage to workers in our society based on line item expenditures by the customer. But as the customer, you can feel better about it--if you find it unnatural or annoying, which I don't--by getting used to the idea of price + tip as the cost of the experience. Too many people, IMO, get hung up on the 'optional' part of tipping. If you convince yourself that you don't consider it optional, it makes it easier. You also internalize the value of places and things in terms of your real outlay when you go there, which helps with the sticker shock which can result in crapping tipping by some people.

I find that when it comes to alcohol big tips can mean much better drinks, sizewise and tastewise. I rarely go below 20% on food and then only if the server has been solely to blame for something, not the kitchen, hostess, etc..

KJS

[El Diablo]

Stuey: Just one thread, that's all we'll have! I am letting them get it out of their system, this is like a big purge!

elus: This is becoming more and more commonplace.

m: I believe tipsharing for housekeeping varies by hotel. I tip every day for this reason.

ND: I tip from $2 to $5 per day, depending on the condition of the room. A lot of times there's not much to do and I'm not having them change the sheets or towels. Other times, I've left a bunch of crap around and used a bunch of towels, etc. If I were to have a party or make a mess for some reason, I would tip more.

mia, Toro, others: Please check this OOT thread to find discussions on valet, takeout, and other standard tipping situations: Tipping thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6096323&an=&page=0&vc=1)

[El Diablo]

All,

Let me reiterate this point. Please check this OOT tipping thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6096323&an=&page=0&vc=1) for discussions on most common scenarios.

Feel free to contribute tipping stories and personal perspectives and other stuff like many have done in this thread. But for standard "how much do I tip in this situation" questions, please head over there to find the appropriate thread addressing the situation.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
ah: "What is the etiquette on tipping when served by a friend?" Get lots of free stuff, then tip your standard tip + about half the value of the free stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh yes! The classic have-your-friend-steal-stuff-from-his-employer-and-then-split-the-proceeds-with-you tip. Good one!

Edit: This is like when I go to the bank to cash a $50 check but my friend, the teller, gives me $100 and I tip him $25 for his great service.

[El Diablo]

TWP,

FWIW, most of these situations for me involve places where I am also friends with the owners. Good owners encourage a certain amount of this with their regulars from servers and especially bartenders.

Obviously, it is something that gets abused quite a lot, which is why good managers and staff are so key to success in the industry.

[TheWorstPlayer]

I'm not really objecting to the fact that it happens. I agree that it can be a good business practice, endorsed by management. But for you to say that is what 'should' happen when you get served by your friend I think is pretty irresponsible advice.

[El Diablo]

TWP,

I was being about halfway facetious in that response.

[durron597]

What do people think about tipping in other countries? I'm normally a 20% -> round up to nearest convenient number tipper, but when I was in Malaysia I noticed no one tipped. After I had been there awhile, I gave a good, fast cabbie RM 21 when the meter said RM 19.80 and he was like "no, it's only RM 20" and seemed shocked that I gave him ANYTHING more. I went out to lunch with a colleague and got great service and she left nothing. I never once tipped for Room Service once I realized no one in the country tipped.

Please note that every bill (for food) has 10% service charge required on top of of the actual cost of the meal.

Thoughts?

[PokrLikeItsProse]

[ QUOTE ]
What type of problems do you guys foresee if a gratuity of say 15% was automatically added to the bill?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would expect the figure to be 18%.

Service charges on the bill with no tipping allowed is standard in certain countries, such as Singapore.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

when I'm in Europe, I have a hard time adjusting to tipping standards over there, and always end up giving too much b/c I get this confused or guilty feeling and I give up and give something that feels right.

the flip side is that you can totall make someones day or get awesome service with a "US" style tip. Just last week I was at this club w/ bottle service, and the extremely busy bartender gave me a standard bottle with some mixers. I tipped him the equivalent of $20, and he looked at me like I had 3 heads. I went back for the second bottle a little while after, and I didn't have to wait at all at the busy bar, he doubled the amount of mixers he gave me, etc...

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
TWP,

I was being about halfway facetious in that response.

[/ QUOTE ]
Being halfway fecetious is worse than 0% or 100%. Because I agree in principle. Your friend should provide you with stellar service and you should give him a very generous tip. But short of stealing, obviously. I just felt like I had to comment because I have worked as a bartender and have had friends come over and want me to overpour their drinks, pour them free drinks, pour them top shelf alcohol without charging more, etc. and they are basically asking me to steal which is 100% wrong. But people don't think of those things as stealing.

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow I must be a stingy bastard.

Since when was 15% not the standard? I tip 15% at most restaurants regardless of anything else. If service was bad 10%. If service was really bad they get nothing. This is in the US.

I also tip the barber somewhere between $2-5 depending on how well I know them. Valet's $2 out. Bartenders a buck a drink. Taxi driver's $1-2 per ride. Strippers nothing.

In Argentina, I leave 10% pretty much regardless of the service as a tip; that's standard here and a lot of Argentines don't even tip. I don't tip cabs, except to round up to the next peso or 1/2 peso. I don't tip bartenders. In fact, I don't really tip anywhere except restaurants where I tip 10%. Barber might get a few pesos extra.

[/ QUOTE ]

Metetron,

I just thought I would mention this. Your taxi tipping seems way out of whack to me. You are putting your life in this guy’s hands for a period of time that is longer than a moment. Yet, you give him the same size tip as you do to the guy who turns mixes a drink and turns back and hands it to you.

I’d revisit this one if I were you. Just a thought.

RJT

[J.Brown]

[ QUOTE ]
All,

Let me reiterate this point. Please check this OOT tipping thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6096323&an=&page=0&vc=1) for discussions on most common scenarios.

Feel free to contribute tipping stories and personal perspectives and other stuff like many have done in this thread. But for standard "how much do I tip in this situation" questions, please head over there to find the appropriate thread addressing the situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

El D,

i hope this thread was appropriate, because what i wanted was a more mature perspective on tipping and the reasons behind it. i thought it would make a great sequel/companion to the oot thread, but with a more developed sense to it.

hope this mission is getting accomplished, love the forum.

later. J.

[XXXNoahXXX]

My girlfriend always does this joke, I think she saw it on 3rd rock from the sun or something.

(Lay out one dollar bills side by side along the edge of the table)

To waitress:
This is your tip. For each thing you do that pleases me, I will add one. For each thing you do that does not please me, I will take one away."

[El Diablo]

J: Thread rules. I just want to keep the standard "Do I tip the mover?" questions out of it.

TWP: I don't really disagree with anything you said. I think it is inappropriate to ask/expect a friend to "hook you up" in spots like that. I would never put a friend in a tough spot like that. However, they often do end up giving you special service which includes free stuff, and this is to a reasonable degree expected in the industry. It's only when people abuse it that it becomes a problem.

[El Diablo]

Noah,

Do any waitresses think it's funny?

[suzzer99]

I recently found out that people tip the AAA guy or the DirecTv guy if they're really friendly and do something extra for you. Now I feel really guilty about my last encounter with the DirecTv guy and last two with AAA guys. They all did something special and each time I thought about tipping but it felt too awkward. Also I only had a few ones or a twenty. $10 felt like the right amount.

It really bugs me that these guys were probably hoping for a tip and drove away thinking I was a jerk, or at least disappointed. I really had never heard concret evidence of tipping them before.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
Noah,

Do any waitresses think it's funny?

[/ QUOTE ]
I can't believe anyone would find that funny, least of all waitresses.

[mlagoo]

[ QUOTE ]
My girlfriend always does this joke, I think she saw it on 3rd rock from the sun or something.

(Lay out one dollar bills side by side along the edge of the table)

To waitress:
This is your tip. For each thing you do that pleases me, I will add one. For each thing you do that does not please me, I will take one away."

[/ QUOTE ]

yuck, how rude

[miajag]

[ QUOTE ]
My girlfriend always does this joke, I think she saw it on 3rd rock from the sun or something.

(Lay out one dollar bills side by side along the edge of the table)

To waitress:
This is your tip. For each thing you do that pleases me, I will add one. For each thing you do that does not please me, I will take one away."

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds like a pretty foolproof method of getting bodily fluids in your dinner.

[El Diablo]

TWP,

This time my response was about 90% rhetorical.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
TWP,

This time my response was about 90% rhetorical.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll work on my calibration. I had this one pegged around 99%. I was spelling it out for Noah, though, who undoubtedly would have missed the sarcasm.

[Brocktoon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My girlfriend always does this joke, I think she saw it on 3rd rock from the sun or something.

(Lay out one dollar bills side by side along the edge of the table)

To waitress:
This is your tip. For each thing you do that pleases me, I will add one. For each thing you do that does not please me, I will take one away."

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds like a pretty foolproof method of getting bodily fluids in your dinner.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. Never mess with servers before or during a meal, least of all in any manner that can possibly be construed as belittling or degrading. They have a lot of power. Don't forget it.

[suzzer99]

If not for that than just for general human decency. I think you can tell a lot about someone by how they treat servers. It shows how they will behave when they are the one with the power. Few things turn me off faster than being on a first date with someone who's rude the the waitstaff.

[Dids]

"I think you can tell a lot about someone by how they treat servers. It shows how they will behave when they are the one with the power. Few things turn me off faster than being on a first date with someone who's rude the the waitstaff."

Totally agree.

Not that this replies to dating, but I have an uncle who I won't dine with for this reason. He's a staggering [censored] to waitstaff, and it's just cringeworhty, especially because often when we dine on a family, it's on the grandparents bill, so his opinion is even less than valid.

I've also chewed out friends of my parents for being [censored] to a server (girl tripped coming up the stairs with an overloaded carrying our dinners, and they are constantly bitching about the wait, being rude to the waitress, and failing to acknowledge that when 7 of 11 people all order the fish and chips in a tiny ass place, it's not easy to get them out that quick).

[kickpushcoast]

[ QUOTE ]
My girlfriend always does this joke, I think she saw it on 3rd rock from the sun or something.

(Lay out one dollar bills side by side along the edge of the table)

To waitress:
This is your tip. For each thing you do that pleases me, I will add one. For each thing you do that does not please me, I will take one away."

[/ QUOTE ]

if she really does this, wow what a d-bag

[NajdorfDefense]

The service at Daniel and the service at a Chili's are in no way comparable. That's like saying 'a Taurus and a Porsche should cost the same... they're cars aren't they?' Etc.

The waiters, maitre'd, host, sommeliers, etc I've found to be much, much better at the truly nice places in NYC.

[bellytimber]

haircut tipping suggestion--

if the person cutting your hair isn't the person washing your hair, then you absolutely need to tip the washer.

I suggest $5

1-2 seems a little weak
3-4 seems like too many pieces of paper / sacagawea coins

just make it a five dollar bill you aristocrat you.

[Jiggymike]

As a former and current (PT for a few months) waiter, I obv. have a lot of opinions on tipping. First off, people who don't tip are either 1) foreginers, 2) southerners 3) sh++s or some combination of the three. I understand that some people 'don't believe in it' like Steve Buscemi in Reservoir Dogs but for some reason the American way has found a loophole where servers are paid dick and they must make their money from tips.

Personally, I leave around 18-20% on the total bill as my standard, although I will often go higher as long as the service is pretty good (25-30%). I know how it feels to get just a little bigger tip than usual/expected and will reward a server when I think he/she deserves it. When service is ho hum or a little bad, I'll still do 18, maybe 15%. When service is REALLY bad is the hardest part. I mean, if the server is a bitch and clearly treats you like garbage, I think it is fine to tip less than usual or even 0 if it's that bad but these should be exceptions. Slow food is usually not a server's fault (although avoiding customers is) as are a myriad of other reasons that can be pinned on the kitchen, yet the server often suffers for it.

Tipping is an issue, though, because people feel differently about how much you should tip when you go out in groups. I'm nearly ALWAYS stuck paying an extra few dollars because other people don't leave enough money to cover everything (it doesn't bother me on occassion but it's like I don't even want to hang out with certain people who will 'cost me more' to go out with). The flat rate tipping is interesting because I always feel bad for servers at diners who get like $2 and $3 tips all day long while people working in expensive restaurants get $50 tips to act like a pompous ass. The problem that people should realize is that the government and the restaurant charge you (tax and tip out, respecitvely) by your sales (not always the gov) so that tipping less percentage wise on bigger checks only hurts the server. The system is pretty flawed, overall, and it would be nice if people could standardize the whole tipping/pay thing at restaurants.

[JaBlue]

[ QUOTE ]

Ja: Note that at a nicer restaurant, the waiter is serving far fewer tables per hour and is also splitting the tip money with more people. Additionally, they are expected to provide you a higher level of service. All of this results in the tip portion of your meal costing more, just like the meal did.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just trying to instate a policy that makes sense to me. I want to pay waiters and waitresses roughly the same. I look at my tip as paying them an hourly wage for their service and do not think that I should pay more for someone carrying more expensive food. Of course I won't underpay a bill at a nice place for an overpriced coffee; choosing to go to the place, I know what I'm getting myself into. But if I order a $4 coffee at a nice place I'm gonna tip the same amount on it as I would a $2 coffee somewhere else.

I do not agree with a percentage tip at all. Lets say you go to IHOP and order some pancakes for $5. Good service, you'll probably give $1-2. Now say you go to a steakhouse and get a $100 steak. The same waiter serves you. You get the same service, except maybe a little visit in between for "how do you like your meal? Everything alright?" and you're gonna tip $20? That seems ridiculous to me.

edit: another, simpler example why I think percentage tip sucks: wine. Say one night out I buy a $20 bottle of wine. The other night I buy $100. There is no way I'm tipping different amounts.

[private joker]

JaBlue, have you met my dad?

[El Diablo]

Jiggy,

"As a former and current (PT for a few months) waiter"

"Personally, I leave around 18-20% on the total bill as my standard, although I will often go higher as long as the service is pretty good (25-30%)."

You tip lower than every single waiter or bar/restaurant industry person I know.

[El Diablo]

Ja,

Your position re: wine is perfectly reasonable. Some people tip a flat amount per bottle and it's an acceptable policy.

However, your position regarding nice place vs. cheaper place is flawed. You completely missed what I wrote.

"Note that at a nicer restaurant, the waiter is serving far fewer tables per hour and is also splitting the tip money with more people. Additionally, they are expected to provide you a higher level of service. All of this results in the tip portion of your meal costing more, just like the meal did."

You wrote "choosing to go to the place, I know what I'm getting myself into."

Part of what you're getting yourself into is tipping a higher amount, in part due to the reasons I list above.

You also wrote "I want to pay waiters and waitresses roughly the same. I look at my tip as paying them an hourly wage for their service"

OK, then. Based on the simple facts that at the more expensive restaurant:

a) The waiter serves less tables.
b) More people are serving you.

To account for both of those factors, you need to tip more if you are trying to achieve what you just stated.

That's without even accounting for the fact that there's a higher level of service expected and you're generally dealing with better trained, older, more experienced servers. That's something you're expected to pay for too, for good reason.

[JaBlue]

[ QUOTE ]
Part of what you're getting yourself into is tipping a higher amount


[/ QUOTE ]
Disagree. I agree to pay the stated prices when going to a restaurant but in no way do I agree to tip what they consider standard. Tipping is entirely voluntary.


[ QUOTE ]

a) The waiter serves less tables.


[/ QUOTE ]
I tip for quality services rendered unto me. I dont care how much a tress makes total, I only care how much is coming from me. I often tip 20-25% at crappy diner-type places where waitresses have been and will continue to work forever because my few bucks != their few bucks.

[ QUOTE ]

b) More people are serving you.


[/ QUOTE ]

Huh? I always remember getting served by my waiter. Then again I can count my $100+ meals on one hand. If tips are shared, that is certainly reason to adjust up. But probably not as much as the percentage would suggest; of course, depends on price of meal etc.

Flat rate is going to be my standard from now on.

A lot of what I'm writing is based on the experience of having similar serving quality at nice places and less nice places. I have never noticed a big difference, maybe because I do my best to be friendly and make their job as easy as possible.

There was once a fantastic, zany gay waiter who made me look good in front of my date. He got a big tip.

[ QUOTE ]

That's without even accounting for the fact that there's a higher level of service expected and you're generally dealing with better trained, older, more experienced servers. That's something you're expected to pay for too, for good reason.


[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not so sure that they are justified in expecting me to pay more for better service. At places expensive enough for the waiting staff to be hired as "better trained, older, and more experienced" I think that may be an expense the restaurant should incur. Doesn't seem unreasonable to consider the service as part of the atmosphere, which is a big draw of expensive restaurants. The restaurant should pay more in order to retain better staff, not me. Not sure I totally endorse this reasoning, but it seems like a somewhat sensible objection to that assumption.

[Benjamin]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not so sure that they are justified in expecting me to pay more for better service.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not just better service, it's usually more service over more time. Your waiter at a fancy joint will generally be held to a higher standard of attentiveness that ensures he/she makes many more trips on average to a given table. Combine that with more courses and a longer stay, the waiter generally earns the higher tip that the higher priced food dictates.

B.

[Benjamin]

I worked for years in fine dining and wine service. On the wine issue, I treat a normally priced bottle of wine as part of the total that I tip on, or expect to be tipped on. For a very expensive bottle, I would tip or expect to be tipped something like that on an upper normal bottle at that restaurant + $10 or $20. The expensive bottles do take more time to serve on average: they more frequently have cork issues and/or need to be decanted, which can seriously put the server in the weeds if he doesn't have a sommelier to handle it. So, a solid tip is appropriate, but I don't expect 20% or even necessarily 10% on a very expensive bottle.

Nothing ever made me sweat as much as opening a several hundred dollar bottle of wine in the middle of a weekend rush. Old bottle, crumbling cork, decanted over a candle so you can see the sediment line, all the while your other tables each wanting/needing attention. I'm glad I'm not in that game anymore.

[CIncyHR]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

That's without even accounting for the fact that there's a higher level of service expected and you're generally dealing with better trained, older, more experienced servers. That's something you're expected to pay for too, for good reason.


[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not so sure that they are justified in expecting me to pay more for better service. At places expensive enough for the waiting staff to be hired as "better trained, older, and more experienced" I think that may be an expense the restaurant should incur. Doesn't seem unreasonable to consider the service as part of the atmosphere, which is a big draw of expensive restaurants. The restaurant should pay more in order to retain better staff, not me. Not sure I totally endorse this reasoning, but it seems like a somewhat sensible objection to that assumption.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think its reasonable to expect a more experienced server to get paid more, just like any other job would have an increasing salary with time. Whether the restaurant should pay their servers more is up for a debate but they don''t, so you have to.

[chisness]

JaBlue,

Even at places where avg meal is $20, there are usually people refilling water regularly and more staff to help serve/remove dishes.

Your arguments are really appalling and childish. "Tipping is voluntary" sounds like some dumb type of argument I'd make just for the sake of it when I was 5. "Mommmm, I don't have to dress up for this party."

More expensive restaurants get fewer customers and make up the difference by charging more and giving customers better service. It IS your responsibility to pay the staff more.

[Jiggymike]

[ QUOTE ]
Jiggy,

"As a former and current (PT for a few months) waiter"

"Personally, I leave around 18-20% on the total bill as my standard, although I will often go higher as long as the service is pretty good (25-30%)."

You tip lower than every single waiter or bar/restaurant industry person I know.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually I agree with you but I may have underestimated my usual tipping. I think 'service is pretty good' = usual so I normally tip 25-30% at least, if I don't I'm a bastard.

[JaBlue]

[ QUOTE ]

Your arguments are really appalling and childish. "Tipping is voluntary" sounds like some dumb type of argument I'd make just for the sake of it when I was 5.

[/ QUOTE ]

tipping <u>IS</u> voluntary

[NicksDad1970]

I'm an overtipper as well. I tip at places when I have a phone in order. I still thiink that's the right thing to do. I tip maybe a buck at Starbucks.

When I go out to eat I usually tip 25% if they're good and somewhere between 15 - 20% if they're ok.

I havn't balla overtipped. But on X-mas when I ate at Waffle House I gave the girl a $25 tip (on like a $6 meal). I heard her talkin about going bein in a hurry to go see her kids. Who knows she probably says that near every customer for the sympathy tip.

[chopstick]

cliffs notes - I hate that the restaurant industry screws over both waitstaff and customers by using the "tipping" system, but participate anyway.

---

I don't really like tipping threads because of the animosity that seems to spring forth from them, due to people having very strong opinions about the subject. That animosity tends to decrease the signal to noise ratio and destroy the content of the discussion, which often devolves into insults and name-calling.

It looks like this thread is heading there, as is standard for such threads.

That being said, I'll make a couple of comments anyway. If you want to respond, great. If your response is levelheaded and you don't engage in personal attacks, I'll respond in kind. We learn far more from civil disagreement and discussion than insecurity based attacks.

--

A little about me, so you can understand where I'm coming from -

I'm what most would probably consider a "good" tipper. My usual rule of thumb is to tip at least 20% on the post tax total.

Exceptions to that rule include:

- Extremely expensive restaurant. I may go as low as 18% pre-tax total.

- Something going horrible wrong, outside of the server's control. I might go as low as 10%, unless the server was deliberately rude. I can't remember ever completely stiffing a server.

- Something going amazingly well, inside the server's control. I have no problem tipping more than the total bill, depending on the circumstances.

- A meal at a very low end restaurant. I will always tip a minimum of $5, if I am waited on at a non-buffet location. The % doesn't really factor in here. A $10 bill is still going to get at least a $5 tip. These are usually the servers that most appreciate this kind of tip, as well.

I do not drink wine, so deciding on a "wine tip" is never really an issue for me.

I have had a lot of retail experience, but not food service experience. I have never waited tables myself. I have a decent number of close friends who have, as well as a large number of exes who have, including some who have done so for many years.


--

OK, that being said -

I think the entire tipping system is atrocious. I hate the idea of a tipping system, and I will explain why I feel this way. Please attempt to check any kneejerk emotional responses or decisions about my character until you hear me out. Trust me, I'm on your side if you are a server or have been one in the past.

I believe the restaurants want to advertise the lowest possible price in order to draw in customers, and the way that they accomplish this is by advertising only the cost of the food, and not the cost of the labor. They create a situation where the labor cost is borne by no one, and attempt to foster an atmosphere conducive to the customer covering that labor cost via nothing more than an artificially generated social custom.

Because of this, I think that the tipping system is a massive scam perpetrated by restaurant owners to disproportionately benefit the owners at the expense of the servers and customers. What's worse is that I think that the way that it has been implemented is despicable in that most of the server and waitstaff culture has bought into it hook, line, and sinker.

I have had opportunities in the past to become a server, and decided not to. There are a few reasons, but one primary reason was that I decided the tipping system was terrible. Variable reward systems are the most effective way to induce a desired behavior (see slot machines, or Skinner's rat experiments), but that doesn't make them fair or equitable. Tipping is a variable reward system, because the actor (server) cannot control the reward (tip) given by the controller (customer). What makes this really infuriate me is the way that the restaurant industry has marketed the concept of tipping as a non-variable (or low-variable) reward system, arguing that good service always has a positive correlation with good tip. This is not the case, but many servers buy into the idea anyway, for reasons that I'm not going to take pages to explain, but they relate to self-concept reinforcement. When servers provide good service, and do not receive a good tip, this creates cognitive dissonance, and the servers usually focus their anxiety (often manifested as frustration or anger) at the customer, regardless of the customer's reasoning for the amount of that tip.

Hmm I'm getting a bit off track here.

I believe that the tipping system is a marketing tool, and nothing more. It is a marketing tool fostered by the restaurant industry because it benefits them to create what is essentially a hidden (technically) cost to the customer for the labor they use. This allows the restaurant to advertise a lower price for their food, because they are only advertising the price for the cost of the food, and not the associated cost of the labor. The "tip" is treated as a social custom which is the responsibility of the customer. This absolves the restaurant of the obligation to pay their waitstaff a reasonable wage by offloading the obligation onto the customer - in a non-binding (hence the variable reward system) manner. If the waitstaff gets stiffed, they have no recourse because the customer is gone, and the restaurant can shrug its shoulders and say "sorry, guess you got a bad tipper".

What I'd prefer would be something more similar to the European style, with a specific service charge that the customer knows about ahead of time, or better yet, just incorporating the cost of the labor into the cost of the food.

I don't think we'll see that, because that raises the price of the food, which affects the ability of the restaurant to market and compete.

Again - the restaurant wants to advertise the lowest possible price in order to draw in customers, and the way that they accomplish this is by advertising only the cost of the food, and not the cost of the labor. They create a situation where the labor cost is borne by no one, and attempt to foster an atmosphere conducive to the customer covering that labor cost via social custom.

I did not ever try being a server because I did not want to be subject to a variable reward system that I might be able to slightly influence but was mostly out of my control, when I could instead participate in a static reward system (hourly wage). Also, my waitstaff friends had crazy laundry bills.


I've got more to say, but that's my unedited chunk of thoughts about the system as a whole.

I choose not to Mr. Pink it up and not tip because while I completely disagree with the system, I choose to participate in it, and feel it would be unfair for the servers to be punished by my lone (and certainly fruitless) attempts to buck the system.

Sorry that this was a bit jumbled up, folks.

Thoughts? (other than tl;dr, that one is a given)



El Diablo - Thanks for creating this forum. I've been interested in discussing these thoughts for a while, but the OOT tipping threads just made me want to bang my head into a brick wall so I never bothered to write this up.

[El Diablo]

chop,

A lot of your comments are spot-on. FYI, I've seen a number of restaurants moving to a flat 18-20% service charge model recently.

[NajdorfDefense]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Your arguments are really appalling and childish. "Tipping is voluntary" sounds like some dumb type of argument I'd make just for the sake of it when I was 5.

[/ QUOTE ]

tipping <u>IS</u> voluntary

[/ QUOTE ]

Compliance with IRS regulations is also voluntary. You report your income and you figure out what you owe, and you decide if and when to pay or file an extension.

Just like refusing to tip, however, there are consequences.

[kickpushcoast]

chop i agree, although alot of times its not about advertising the least expensive price(we all dont eat at applebee's) as much as its a way to cut costs and pass the labor burden to the customer, instead of the establishment, i agree its a pretty good scam for restaurant and bar owners.

i also agree with your $5 minimum tip regardless of the little your meal costs, ive been doing this for years and its gotten me way more free food/drinks than its cost me.

[TheMetetron]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Your arguments are really appalling and childish. "Tipping is voluntary" sounds like some dumb type of argument I'd make just for the sake of it when I was 5.

[/ QUOTE ]

tipping <u>IS</u> voluntary

[/ QUOTE ]

Compliance with IRS regulations is also voluntary. You report your income and you figure out what you owe, and you decide if and when to pay or file an extension.

Just like refusing to tip, however, there are consequences.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a horrible analogy. Not tipping isn't illegal IIRC.

[El Diablo]

All: Let's keep the "tipping is voluntary" argument out of this. It's clear how both sides of that position feel.

chop: I like the $5 minimum idea. I think that's a much better use of tipping $$$ as opposed to using the same $$$ to tip just slightly higher percentage-wise at nicer places.

[TheMetetron]

Diablo and others,

I got some empanadas delivered today. The bill was AR$6 and I tipped the guy AR$1. How big of a cheap ass do you feel I am? I didn't feel bad until I realized that was only a 33 cent tip. I'll be sure to give him AR$2 next time. He did seem content to even get AR$1 though. My place is about 5 blocks from the empanada restaurant and for comparison's sake the guy probably makes AR$8-10 per hour, or US$2-3.

While some of you might think my tip was low, it wasn't by Argentine standards. Surely, you don't feel I should give him a AR$15 or US$5 tip here like your minimum is suggesting? What's appropriate here?

Edit: I should mention delivery is free. Also, lunch was delicious.

PS - I intend to order delivery from this place semi-regularly. It has some of the best empanadas in town and is very close to my place. Not sure if that affects your thoughts.

[El Diablo]

Met,

I don't think much of anything from most tipping threads on 2+2 is applicable to tipping outside of the US. I have absolutely no clue what is appropriate in Argentina.

[Boomhauer]

First, Chop, I liked your post. Very insightful.

In my past I've worked at two restaurants. The first one was a sit down pizza place (Round Table Pizza)in Washington. People would go to the counter, order, and food would be delivered out to the table. They also made deliveries. Tipping in the restaurant was rare. Obviously this is attributed to lack of a real server to check up on you. It was kinda funny that the delivery drivers did the least amount of real work, and were easily getting the best incomes (delivery tips were not shared). Just goes to show the inequity of the situation.

Later, I worked at a Denny's in Arizona. Here, I was totally dependent on tips as wage was like $2.07 an hour or some [censored] like that.

In Washington, it is not legal for employers to pay employees less than the minimum wage (even if working in a tip-dependent profession). In AZ, they could pay that sub $3/hr amount and let the tips be used to get the employee over the federal minimum wage.

What is the catalyst that brings on restaurant to obligate tipping? When you order when you are seated, you tip, if you are standing, no tip implied? Seems appropriate to me, unless you're at a bar, then it breaks down.

That said, I tip between 15%-20% of the pretax total depending on the service.

[chopstick]

[ QUOTE ]
Diablo and others,

I got some empanadas delivered today. The bill was AR$6 and I tipped the guy AR$1. How big of a cheap ass do you feel I am? I didn't feel bad until I realized that was only a 33 cent tip. I'll be sure to give him AR$2 next time. He did seem content to even get AR$1 though. My place is about 5 blocks from the empanada restaurant and for comparison's sake the guy probably makes AR$8-10 per hour, or US$2-3.

While some of you might think my tip was low, it wasn't by Argentine standards. Surely, you don't feel I should give him a AR$15 or US$5 tip here like your minimum is suggesting? What's appropriate here?

Edit: I should mention delivery is free. Also, lunch was delicious.

PS - I intend to order delivery from this place semi-regularly. It has some of the best empanadas in town and is very close to my place. Not sure if that affects your thoughts.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is another aspect of the system that I didn't address above, mostly because I got tired of typing. You are asking us to make value assesments/judgments on your behavior, because you are not certain if you should alter your behavior. Moving away from the tipping culture to a non-variable reward system would reduce the anxiety that you and others feel regarding your behavior and the "appropriateness" of your decisions. Arbitrary societal reinforcement of an artifical cultural "norm" is just another terrible byproduct of the tipping system.

The fact that the tipping system creates this kind of socially reinforced anxiety (am I tipping enough?, Is my behavior appropriate?, etc) via the variability of the system and uses it to propogate itself makes me sick.


El Diablo pretty obviously was referring to my comments, which were about the U.S. tipping culture. I'm not sure if you are trying to level us here or something, but for the sake of the forum, I'll assume that was an honest question. There is no "appropriate", and my $5 min thought process doesn't apply to your scenario, it is U.S.-specific. Finally, it is *mine*. Yours may be entirely different, and I'm not going to judge you for having a different approach - do what you feel is right, and keep an open mind to changing your behavior if you and you alone decide to do so.

[TheMetetron]

[ QUOTE ]
Met,

I don't think much of anything from most tipping threads on 2+2 is applicable to tipping outside of the US. I have absolutely no clue what is appropriate in Argentina.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm trying to rephrase the point I was trying to make but I can't. Hmmm. Frustrating.

I guess I'm trying to say is should I feel the need to tip more because it means so much more to the guy than it would to me (like many people say about smaller restaurants in the USA). I mean honestly if I tipped US$2 every time I got food delivered it wouldn't make a dent to me, but 6 pesos is half what the guy makes in an hour. But it would seem super absurd to tip 100%.

My question wasn't really if my tip was appropriate because it was standard for Argentina (I asked some other people first) and the guy brought a 2 peso bill and two 1 peso coins for my change (they ask what size bill you are paying with on the phone), implying that he brought the coins so I could tip him with one of them if I wanted. My question is more of that if we are following the rationale of many here, I should be leaving huge tips everywhere here... yet even the rich people here don't implying, something isn't quite right either here or there.

Either you are saying people should tip because it's a social custom or you are saying people should tip because you want to help the person and it means more to them than you. Which is it?

If it's a social custom, it is a pretty screwed up one. Find a way to incorporate the tip (and sales tax for that matter) into the price of the food... I guarantee people stop complaining about it. I've never once bitched about the VAT here (21%) or in Sweden (25%) because it isn't in my face every day but including in the prices I pay. Do that with the servers wage and this thread wouldn't exist anymore.



PS - I know I'm horribly wording the point I am exactly trying to make. I can't really come up with a better way to say it at this point. Sorry.

[TheMetetron]

chopstick,

I agree with your thoughts 100% by the way. It was "leveling" in a sense that I was trying to make some sort of point in agreement with what you have said so far. It didn't really work at all and I can't come up with a good way to express my opinion.


Also,

People are selfish. They only do things that directly or indirectly will benefit them. Tipping is the same thing. People do it for them and the fact it is expected is kind of sick. Selfish reasons for tipping include: making oneself feel good, ensuring better service, getting free/discounted stuff, trying to fit in so people won't criticize you. I don't believe there is a non-selfish reason for doing it and people saying so don't understand themselves or others very well.

[El Diablo]

Met,

Sounds like the point you're trying to make is similar to a lot of the good points chopstick made in his post.

I tip partially because I understand that is part of their expected compensation, and that's part of the deal w/ going to restaurants. Sure, it might be better in a lot of ways if it was just included in the food and maybe had a truly voluntary potential addition. However, that's not the way it works currently in most places in the US, so that's the primary reason to tip.

In addition to that, sometimes I can make a minor gesture on my part that will make the person much happier. In the US, that might take the form of an extra $2, $5, $20, or $100, depending on what the situation is. In India, that might be $.25, $1, or $5. I don't see any need to be overly extravagant in such things, but sometimes a little extra makes both me and the recipient feel good.

[Brocktoon]

[ QUOTE ]
Something going horrible wrong, outside of the server's control. I might go as low as 10%, unless the server was deliberately rude.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand this part. If it was outside of the server's control then why are they being penalized?

Also, you say, "unless the server was deliberately rude" in the same sentence that you are describing a situation that causes you to significantly reduce your tip. Phrasing it this way seems to imply that the server being rude is a condition where the tip will not be significatly lowered as it usually would otherwise. Unless you meant that when they are rude and something goes wrong they don't even get the 10%, but this doesn't seem to be the case as you go on to say that you never stiff anyone in the very next line.

Seems to me that leaving a normal sized tip when something outside of the servers control goes wrong, unless they are deliberately rude, makes more sense.

[lapoker17]

chopstick - you may be the best writer on 2+2. not really high praise, but it's something.

[chopstick]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Something going horrible wrong, outside of the server's control. I might go as low as 10%, unless the server was deliberately rude.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand this part. If it was outside of the server's control then why are they being penalized?

Also, you say, "unless the server was deliberately rude" in the same sentence that you are describing a situation that causes you to significantly reduce your tip. Phrasing it this way seems to imply that the server being rude is a condition where the tip will not be significatly lowered as it usually would otherwise. Unless you meant that when they are rude and something goes wrong they don't even get the 10%, but this doesn't seem to be the case as you go on to say that you never stiff anyone in the very next line.

Seems to me that leaving a normal sized tip when something outside of the servers control goes wrong, unless they are deliberately rude, makes more sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't understand it because I made an error there. I meant inside, not outside. Teaches me to rattle off an essay without spending some time editing it. Good catch.

What I meant to convey and did not type correctly was:

- Something going horrible wrong, inside of the server's control. I might go as low as 10%, unless the server was deliberately rude, in which case I would have no problem going lower, even to 0%, and with a discussion with the restaurant manager. I can't remember ever completely stiffing a server, though. Almost all of my comments to restaurant managers are complimentary ones regarding service, and sometimes the food.

Again, sorry for the confusion, I just kinda rattled that entire thing out very quickly. Thanks for catching the error!

edited to add this example:
If a server trips and spills something on me, it wouldn't affect their tip from me, because I realize that it was an accident. I'd have no problem still leaving 20%, even if I now have a wine stain on my shirt, because the restaurant is almost certainly going to cover the cleaning cost. Even if the restaurant doesn't cover the cost, I'm still probably going to leave 20% and keep coming back, because it was an accident. If I order water with lime and the server starts to berate me for not ordering Voss instead, the tip starts to drop. Intent is everything.

[chopstick]

[ QUOTE ]
chopstick - you may be the best writer on 2+2. not really high praise, but it's something.

[/ QUOTE ]

lapoker -

Thank you for the compliment, I appreciate it and hope to contribute more. I look forward to this forum's future, especially if El Diablo and [censored] rule with iron fists in the name of post content and discussion quality. There are a lot of fantastic people here with some wonderful things to share. I hope the signal to noise ratio stays high.

[Brocktoon]

[ QUOTE ]
You don't understand it because I made an error there. I meant inside, not outside.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see. In that case I agree with you 100%.

[midwestkc]

[ QUOTE ]
I also have a big overtipping problem. I don't know why but I just can't help it. I guess I just feel that servers do a hard job, they mostly deal with jerks and overdemanding customers, and a few extra bucks is nothing to me but goes a long way to making their day better. Plus, if there's any chance of coming back you will be guaranteed to have great service next time.


[/ QUOTE ]

You could also say this exact same thing about a salesman, a cop, or one of any number of other professions where tipping isn't mandatory. I'm not saying don't tip, but the rationale behind it is a little crazy. Tipping should be something that is done To Insure Prompt Service, not because they have a job you don't want.

[PokerBob]

I tip 20-25%, regardless.

[D.H.]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you not tip or live somewhere where it is not allowed or required?

[/ QUOTE ]

I live in Sweden and here the tipping tradition is a bit different. It is (or at least used to be) more about rounding up to an appropriate amount than calculating percentages. Also, we don't tip at all the same places that you do in the U.S., for example I have never tipped when getting a haircut. At the casino here I don't even think that you are allowed to tip. Generally, jobs are paid enough so that the person won't have to rely on tips.

It seems to me that things are changing though, people are imitating the U.S. (as we do in a lot of ways) and are becoming more generous tippers. I assume that this reflects in the salaries of the employees and personally I don't like this trend.

When tips become something that is "required" I don't really see the point of it. I would prefer that the employer increases the price of the food (or whatever) and pays everyone a decent salary. Tips could then be something that you pay if you really feel like the personen deserves "something extra".

Well, that's the way I would want it to be but obviously I can't change anything so I try to adjust to whatever is "standard" in countries I visit.

Edit: Oh, and by the way, this forum is great.

[AllinDan]

Metetron-

fwiw in your situation I feel like I would tip something like 3 pesos because of the fact that you plan to order from there a lot. The people bringing your food will definitely remember and will ensure you get your food faster and hotter than you might otherwise on a busy day. Granted I tip well in cheap foreign countries where the cost to me is very little.

There was an interesting dynamic regarding tipping that I noticed while I was in Europe. I tend to tip pretty well always, but many waiters in nicer restaurants would make me wait and give me poor service because I looked like a broke college student backpacker. While I can't really fault them for this, I also couldn't tip them well because of said poor service; reinforcing their image of me and by extension all Americans regarding tipping. As a direct result I tipped very very well when I was treated well and given good service.

[metsandfinsfan]

If tip really means to Insure Promptness, if you get bad service you should not tip

Nothing annoys me more than when a restaurant adds 18% gratuty to a bill and then i get bad service.

I tip well when it is deserved

[metsandfinsfan]

Oh. And i refuse to tip some guy in the bathroom that gives me a paper towel

[tabako]

[ QUOTE ]

I tend to tip pretty well always, but many waiters in nicer restaurants would make me wait and give me poor service because I looked like a broke college student backpacker. While I can't really fault them for this, I also couldn't tip them well because of said poor service; reinforcing their image of me and by extension all Americans regarding tipping.


[/ QUOTE ]

This happens all the time in the US to blacks and other groups who are perceived to "not tip well."

[southerndog]

One thing that I havn't really seen mentioned is that tipping is part of the cost of the meal. As we all know, most servers get paid about $3/hour. So, the restaurant is expecting that people will tip. If there was no tipping, they would have to pay the servers more, thus raising the price.

I don't really think any servers should make more than $12/hour.

[blackize]

[ QUOTE ]

I don't really think any servers should make more than $12/hour.

[/ QUOTE ]

In reality at most chains and places above diners the servers make $20-30 an hour. I think this is disgusting since what they do is essentially unskilled labor.

[blackize]

I'm a pretty big tipper in general. I typically give 20%+ in resuarants. I've gone far over this and way under as well.

My favorite restaurant is Hamburger Hamlet in Bethesda. They usually give good service. There is an attached bar/smoking area with a glass pane door that seperates the two areas. The worst service I have ever had there was with a group of 6. Our waiter threw that door open and it hit a box on the other side, breaking one of the panes of glass. He tried to stay away from the area as much as he could the rest of the night. We gave him 10%.

Once I was there in a group of 3. Our server was very friendly, knowledgable, prompt, and was on top of our every need even before we had opportunity to ask. He really went above and beyond when one of my friends, spilled some chocolate from his sundae on his shirt. Our server was there almost immediately with club soda offering to help clean up the shirt. My friends are cheap bastards and wanted to tip the standard 15-20% and wouldn't tip more despite the excellent service we had gotten. The bill came to 60 dollars and they tipped their usual amount. I bumped the tip up to 100% of the bill.

More horrible service stories:

At a semi-upscale restaurant/bar I went there with 5 or 6 friends for lunch after high school exams. Our waitress took a very long time even taking our orders despite the fact that the place was nearly empty. After bringing out our orders she never returned to the table except to deliver the bill, leaving our drinks empty throughout part of the meal. Normally such poor service wouldn't be too terrible, but we noticed that she was lavishing attention on a table of adults nearby, ensuring that their drinks were filled and generally providing quality service. My friends couldn't be convinced to cut the tip so after we put our money down to pay the bill and got up to leave, I sneakily grabbed all the money minus a gift certifcate someone had and walked out. When we got to the cars I redistributed the money evenly and we booked it. In retrospect this was a little bit much and I regret taking such drastic action, but at the time it felt so good to give her her just desserts.

At Denny's one night a month or two ago a buddy and I were getting a late night meal. The place was busy and there were 3 waitresses for the entire place which was about 2/3 full. Our waitress took our order quickly. Our food took a little while to arrive. After that she never once returned to our table. We finished eating after about a half hour and sat around for another half hour chatting waiting for her to bring the check by. At about the half hour mark we began to notice that she hadn't even come to our side of the restaurant in a while. I tried snapping my fingers to flag her down across the room, but she was completely oblivious. So after an hour waiting for the check after eating we finally get up and go to the front counter to speak with the manager and get our bill. The manager is running the register at the counter and just then the waitress comes up doing something else and says "Oh I need to print their bill." At this point the manager walks off thinking our waitress is going to finish up with us at the counter. The waitress prints the bill, hands it to me, and walks off. Now the manager is nowhere to be seen and the waitress has walked off to god only knows where. I got pretty infuriated at that point. I looked at the check, the total was 19.92. I stormed back over to our table, dropped a $20, and walked out.

[Scotch78]

[ QUOTE ]
In reality at most chains and places above diners the servers make $20-30 an hour. I think this is disgusting since what they do is essentially unskilled labor.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that what most servers in chain restaurants do is unskilled, but true quality service requires enormous skill and experience. When judging the quality of service, it is very important to remember that a large part of a server's job entails insulating the guest from the many things that go wrong in restaurants. By definition, much of what constitutes great service should be invisible/transparent.

Scott

[Scotch78]

My favorite bad service story:

Me and 10-15 friends go to Steak 'n' Shake after the bars one night. The waitress greets us and takes our drink order pretty quickly (probably took five minutes, but not bad considering the entire place was packed with drunk students). On her second trip to the table she brings all of the drinks except for milkshakes, and explains that "Joe" will be our server, as she is still new and is really busy. About ten minutes later Joe brings the milkshakes and walks away before anyone has a chance to speak to him. He also forgets to leave us straws, so the milkshakes just start melting.

Here's where things get interesting though. Joe walks to the other side of the dining room, sits down with some other customers and starts smoking. When he lights up his second cigarette, I go tell a manager what is happening. Now, what would you expect to happen at this point? I'm thinking maybe the manager apologizes, takes our order immediately himself, maybe comps some of the meal. Yeah, none of that happened.

Five minutes later there's still no change, so half of us walk back to my apartment and order Jimmy John's. The other half opted to stay at SNS, saying that it would still be quicker than walking home and ordering delivery. Well, it wasn't.

Scott

[blackize]

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In reality at most chains and places above diners the servers make $20-30 an hour. I think this is disgusting since what they do is essentially unskilled labor.

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I agree that what most servers in chain restaurants do is unskilled, but true quality service requires enormous skill and experience. When judging the quality of service, it is very important to remember that a large part of a server's job entails insulating the guest from the many things that go wrong in restaurants. By definition, much of what constitutes great service should be invisible/transparent.

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While I agree that this is true in fancier restuarants, I disagree that it is happening at Friday's or Red Robin. I've worked in the restaurant industry in those sort of chains. The servers are typically working pretty hard hustling back and forth but a trained monkey could do their job. Maybe I was just lucky that the cook staff did a good job and our managers were on top of things, but there is no way those servers should be pulling upwards of $20 an hour.

[Scotch78]

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While I agree that this is true in fancier restuarants, I disagree that it is happening at Friday's or Red Robin. I've worked in the restaurant industry in those sort of chains. The servers are typically working pretty hard hustling back and forth but a trained monkey could do their job. Maybe I was just lucky that the cook staff did a good job and our managers were on top of things, but there is no way those servers should be pulling upwards of $20 an hour.

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Did you just disagree with me agreeing with you?

Scott

[blackize]

Heh sort of I guess. Just misunderstood what you were saying.

[southerndog]

Perhaps these threads should just be "How much do u think a waitress/waiter should earn?" And then determine how to get there..

Now that I think about it.. Tipping should not be expected at all, but in the cases where u feel like you were served REALLY well, or you just feel like being generous, u leave like $1- $5.

So, the servers get paid like $6 an hour, and then, perhaps they make another $4- $5 / hour..

I worked at UPS one summer when i was in college... I made $8/hour. I loaded trucks for about 4.5 hours straight. I lifted boxes that weighed on average I would guess 35-40 pounds. We filled them in at about 600 - 800 per hour. It got to the point where your fingers get exhausted.. Most of you have probably never felt this in your life.. I never had before I worked there, and never have since. I lost approximately 10 pounds of water weight, while drinking a gallon of iced tea each shift. I would pull out BLACK snots out of my nose after each day at work. Shifts were only 4-5 hours long because they knew that people could not work a full 8 hours at this. I did this for $8/hour. I would have LOVED to have had a serving job. Trust me, I could have done the work.

[SlowHabit]

How do you tip if the owners get a percentage (or almost all of the tip)?

Give the waiter/waitress cash on our way out via a handshake?

[PokerFink]

I was recently in Barcelona with my family. As many of you know, tipping is very different in much of Europe. It is perfectly acceptable to go to a nice restaurant and not leave any tip (or only a few bucks), and 10% would be considered generous. That's made up for by higher menu prices so that the restaurant can pay its servers a real wage. It's not like you save any money.

At the casino, almost no one tips the dealers. That goes for table games and poker. Again, the house makes up for it in other ways. In poker, the rake is much higher. On the table games, the rules favor the House more.

As an aside, many places include tax in the cost and round their prices, so your bill is a nice round number with no change. AND THERE ARE NO PENNIES - almost everyone rounds to the nearest 5 cents. It's wonderful. The only places that give pennies are... McDonalds and Burger King.

[El Peligroso]

I've been checking into relocating to Buenos Aires lately. I have a couple of questions if you don't mind? Do you find it difficult to wire money into the Central Bank? Are there a lot of questions asked about online poker winnings? Does Argentina have city wide brownouts are any problems with drinking water?

The reason I ask because, I'm very familiar with the Philippines electricty brownout problems.

Thanks,

El Peligroso

[Josem]

I'm really fascinated by this thread because here in Australia, tipping is very unusual. There really is no cultural equivalent, except if customer service is genuinely excellent or to not be concerned about change.



This discussion of 10% v 15% v 20% seems odd.

When (if?) I tip, it would only ever be to round the bill up to a round number.

Eg, a $8.70 cab far would become $10, just as a $9.70 cab fare would.



Going through wallets looking for change to add up 10% seems totally foreign (literally) to me.

[moneyshot]

related question: If you find out that waiters/waitress pool tips, does this change how much you tip?

i just found this out about one of the my favorite neighborhood places and have noticed since they instituted this policy, the quality of service has gone down.

[DcifrThs]

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I tend to tip less for bad service, but really it's just for me. Let's say the bill is $80. Well, usually I'll leave 20%, making it $96. And then I'd round up to $100. Done. If I receive subpar service, I'll probably leave exactly 15%, or $92. Of course, the server will never know here, they'll just assume that's how much I leave. I stopped worrying about that a while back and understand it's more for myself than anything. Just a little personal statement. On the rare occassion there's something over the top bad, I'll say something to a manager. And if something is really unacceptable, I'll leave no tip. In those cases, the experience was so bad that when I explain what happened (someone's food never arrived and the waitress was outside smoking or something like that) the meal is comped anyway. This has happened just a couple of times ever.

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that last part is very scary. i have never talked to a manager about bad service. i've never gotten service bad enough to leave NO tip. i ahve, however, left a $5 tip on a $30 meal for my and my ex as a statement to myself, her, and the waitress. it wasn't that the service was bad (i.e. slow, not there), it was just that the waitress was such a detached server that i felt like i was talking to a drive through window.

that service you got must have been soooo bad that youd idn't tip and talked to the manager.

funny tipping story:

last night i take a train into ny to go to a bar for my friend's bday party (210 rivington street south of houston). so from grand central that was a $15 or so cab ride. on the last stretch of road to the place the cabbie is on the phone with some guy speaking hindi and there is a cab in front of us stopped and we couldn't go around him. my cabbie turns to me and says "do you want me to hit him?"... i say "are you serious?".. he says "yes yes, he is my brother" and proceeds to honk the horn like 10 times obnoxiously (overly obnoxiously) that the passangers (a hot girl and guy) give him the figer.

he then says "oh, now you want fight? i go [censored] you!"

cabbie turns to me againa nd says "c'mon you want i hit him?" last chance city so i said yea knowing cabs have those rubber thingies on them. cabbie who got hit just went up 1 street &amp; waited.

as i was paying i asked if the entertainment was included, cabbie said yes. i had a bunch of $20s (im not balla anymore) a five and a few singles. i was considering giving him $40, but instead gave him close to $30 for an almost 100% tip for the entertainment.

Barron

[PokerFink]

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Going through wallets looking for change to add up 10% seems totally foreign (literally) to me.

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Almost no one tips with change, unless it's spare change you want to get rid of. You just figure out a rough percentage and then round up.

[DpR]

I think a much more interesting conversation regarding tipping is exactly who gets tipped. There are many times I Am wondering if a tip is expected/appropriate.

For example, I recently moved and have had a ton of new furniture and tech stuff delivered. Some examples -

A couple guys carry a new couch into my house and set it down and set it up. I tip them $20.

Couple weeks later the matching love seat arrives. These guys jsut plop the thing down dont arrange the pillows etc, and didnt take their shoes off. I tip nothing.

Delivery guys brings my new 70" TV. It is drop shipped from Sony, so it just comes into the house in a box. No set up, he didnt even take it out of the box. I did not tip, but felt a little wierd about it. Many times in the past I have had large TVs delivered from a big box retailer and they set it up (just out of box, plug in, etc) and I definitely tip them $20.

I also had a hometheater installed in my new house. The company I got the stuff from sent three guys out who spent about 2 full days at my house setting things up. It was alkward and I really didnt have a good opportunity to tip - although I feel really bad about it. I still owe approx 25% of the bill for the theater equipment and install - how much should I tip? Does the price of the equipment factor in (it was 5 figures total but &lt;$50k)? I paid &gt;$1k for install, does that change things? I was going to add $200 to the bill and tell the owner to pass it on to the installers. Not really sure on the right thing here.

Cable guy came out for new service install. I had hom crimp a few ends on some coaxial for me (about 10 cables). Really easy job for him, but I gave him $20 sicen he was pretty nice about it.

I had some of those self pack boxes for my move that are picked up at one place then delivered to another. I tried to tip the guy who dropped them off then came back to pick up the empties $20, but he would not accept it.

All the new appliances in my new house were included in the putchase price (paid for by the builder). However, a few of the smaller items did not show up until after I had moved in (wine cooler, outdorr refreidgerator). The delivery guys for those brought them in and installed them (about 45 minutes of work). I forget if I tipped them, but I remember that I wasnt sure what to do. Theoretically, those item should have been in already and my builder took care of the bills. I felt unsure which way to go on that one.

More generally - say you pay your housekeeper $100 twice a month for cleaning, what is an appropriate xmas bonus?

Do you give xmas bonus to your mailman? UPS? FedEx?

In vegas, do you give the guy that opnes your car door a tip?

How bout the sushi chef when you sit at the counter? Do you give a tip on the bill and then give some to the chef (sometimes there is jar there). If you give some direct to teh chef, do you still tip the full amount on the bill?

Car mechanics?

LAndscapers?

I alluded to this earlier, but generally speaking, if somone else is paying the bill (but not present) do you tip? (i.e. company send towncar for you on their tab).

At vacation joints, at the pool, do you tip the people who provide service that you do not pay for? like a towel guy? How bout if you rent a cabana, which is essential for a white guy like me. Usually runs about $75 for the day, do you add a tip to that?

How mcuh for the club cleaner at the end of a golf round, I usually go $5 a bag, but am somtimes dissappointed with the results.

Rental car shuttle driver? Sometimes they help take you bag in and out of the shuttle, does that make a difference? I usually give the guy $2 regardless.

Just some random thoughts. I hate not knowing whether to tip or not. Generally, I have a good feel, and you just know it is appropriate, but somtimes I am not sure.

[samsonite2100]

One other point worth making is that tipping well pays off if you're a regular at a restaurant or bar. As a bartender/server, I'm acutely aware of the regulars that regularly tip over 20%. These people get served first and fastest, get the most personal service, and get the little extras that I'm able to provide them with.

Also, I just want to confirm that the people saying "I just feel like that extra $10 might make someone's day," are really spot-on. I doesn't financially make or break me, but good tippers really reaffirm one's faith in humanity if you work in the restaurant industry.

[CrayZee]

[ QUOTE ]
One other point worth making is that tipping well pays off if you're a regular at a restaurant or bar. As a bartender/server, I'm acutely aware of the regulars that regularly tip over 20%. These people get served first and fastest, get the most personal service, and get the little extras that I'm able to provide them with.

Also, I just want to confirm that the people saying "I just feel like that extra $10 might make someone's day," are really spot-on. I doesn't financially make or break me, but good tippers really reaffirm one's faith in humanity if you work in the restaurant industry.

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Servers have to do this sort of table adjustment to increase their overall expectation...well, at least the smart ones do.

The fact is, if you don't tip after a server has made an attempt or two to give good service, he/she would rather focus attention on unknowns and esp. good tipping regulars.

Servers also remember the $100+ tabs w/ the $1 tip after all the unrewarded hustling.

Another smart thing for servers to do is to select the best candidate restaurants to work for. Working at Denny's for an extended period of time is not a smart thing to do, but okay to start at. People feel more compelled to tip at fancier or upper crust places.

[Nick Rainey]

Living in Las Vegas is very interesting because a high % of people living here live off of tips. I am a sucker for the Valet guys at the Bellagio. But it is nice when most of them say hi and know your name when you show up and leave. I always tip well, but since moving here I find myself being really generous at tip time.

As a tennis pro at one of the Hotels here sometimes people tip me. Which is weird for me, because no one tips tennis pros in general. A 1 hour tennis lesson is $85 and most people just give me a $100. One of my assistants got a nice $500 tip from a nice Mexican couple.

[TyFuji]

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On $40/day when Rachel Ray tips exactly 15% on her meals when she gets like a glass of water, fries, and a sandwich which comes to like $8. Now obviously the finances are for the sake of the audience, but I can't help but feel that she is making people think its OK to actually tip 15% in this situation.

A waitress seats you and brings you a menu. She then comes back and takes your drink order. She then brings the drink and takes your food order. Then she brings over your fries. Then she refills your drink. Then she brings your food. Then she comes back and checks up on you. Then she brings you bill. Then she handles the transaction and cleans up your table.

Now this may seem like not too much work, and hey, you only ordered some fries and then a burger, but tipping $1.20 for this is insane. And I know that there are people out there that don't see anything wrong with this. My mother is a waitress and her hourly wage is $2/hr. Leave respectable tips, there is a minimum.

So in conclusion, Rachel Ray, stop [censored] encouraging people to tip like Scrooges.

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I hate Rachel Ray with a passion. Stop [censored] smiling all the goddamn time bitch!

On another note, as a former waiter, I don't like the exact 15% tip. It's a gesture. If I did a poor job you can leave 5%, if I did a good job please feel free to leave 25%. If I really screwed up (and I'm not talking about when the food tastes bad, but when I actually made a mistake) then I deserve less of a tip. Auto-tipping 15% every time discourages waiters from doing a good job in the future because they know that it doesn't matter, ultimately: The tip is the same no matter what they do.

[4 High]

I usually auto-tip 19% unless the service was great or poor.

[moneyshot]

one of the bigger questions here is do you tip a low amount for slow service. Admittedly, the waiter likely had little to do with it, but the waiter is the only member of the restaurant staff with whom you interact.

[El Diablo]

All,

OK, I think we've exhausted all the groundbreaking new tipping content. If you have a tipping question/comment that's not addressed in this thread or any of the threads collected in the OOT tipping links thread, I suggest you create a new thread in OOT.