Paralegals

[amplify]

Here is my situation:

I am currently in marketing. Marketing sucks. The work that I enjoy related to it is the research I do on companies, and writing up call guides, pain statements, unique selling propositions, basically distilling the essence of a company's offering into documents. The rest of it is kind of a house of cards, since marketing generates such vague results, we spend half our time talking people into doing campaigns with us and the other half explaining to them why they don't see any results.

So I'm looking to change careers. My background before marketing was computers, and I use these skills every day. I wrote the application that we use to monitor calling activities, and have generally awesome all-around IT skills. I would really like to have a job where I can use this, plus my abilities in reading, writing, and research.

The job I have thought to possibly go for is Paralegal. I don't have an undergraduate degree yet, and if I went back I could get this degree fairly quickly. Also, some positions don't even require the degree so I could start applying for positions while going back to school. The other variable is that I am 37 years old but I don't know how that really affects anything.

I know there won't be a lot of money to start with, or ever really, but there is always the possibility of law school down the road.

So, El Dgenerates, are you a paralegal or a lawyer? What's it like? Are there other jobs that might use the same skills that I haven't considered? Does the actual job come anywhere near what I am assuming? I'll be getting a book this week, but anything you fine folks can tell me would be greatly appreciated.

[Dids]

My boss was an ex-paralegal/managed paralegals.

I've got a a few friends who either were or are paralegals.

We have a paralegal program that we run here.

What I've learned:

It really varies based on who you're working for. In some cases you're a valued assisstant and in some cases you're just somebody's coffee bitch.

You can do some really cool stuff (my boss worked on some big lawsuit in the telecom industry), but it's a lot of work and often thankless.

My assessment is that the likely negatives outweigh the positives.

[claudenm]

I'm a paralegal. Most days I waste away on the internet, but when there is stuff to do I get it done. Most of the stuff involves indexing documents, and/or gathering documents for attorneys. It's a really boring job, and I wish I was working elsewhere, but it pays well and I'm to broke to quit.

[amplify]

So far I am excited by the possibilities of getting coffee, being a bitch, and surfing the Internet.

[Hey_Porter]

My office is right next to the paralegal (I'm a law clerk). I agree with Dids that it definitely varies between firms, but with my firm, it doesn't seem too bad. His job is split between office work (e.g., general computer maintenance, installing programs, researching new software, maintaining the network, etc.), research of non-legal things (e.g., finding people, locating proper defendants, odd-ball facts, etc.) and production. Production involves creating exhibits, both physical and digital, preparing brief formats, editing any photos that may be included, stuff like that. Production can actually be fun, as you get to be heavily involved in the case, and what you are doing is DEFINITELY important and, for the most part recognized.

In short, it doesn't seem like a bad gig. You're a bitch, but not a "get me coffee" bitch, and you actually keep quite busy.

[mlagoo]

I worked as a paralegal for a few summers before going to law school. I worked in a smaller firm, and I think my job was infinitely more exciting than someone who filled the same position at a bigger firm. There was a lot more interaction with the attorneys in my position, and I really felt like the contribution I made had a real effect on the case and on our client's well-being (we did mostly plaintiff's employment law work; discrimination, retaliation, stuff like that).

[Boris]

For not having a college degree, paralegal is a good job. I did it for a few months when I was broke as a joke. I'll collect aluminum cans for a living before I go back to being a paralegal.

[natedogg]

I used to do a lot of temp work as a paralegal in SF. There is absolutely NO REASON WHATSOEVER to do this instead of just going to lawschool and becoming a lawyer. If you work as a paralegal for over a year you are making a huge mistake as you'd be half-way done with lawschool by then.

I can't emphasize this enough. If you're willing to make a living spending all day in a law office, be the lawyer.

natedogg

[Hey_Porter]

[ QUOTE ]
For not having a college degree, paralegal is a good job. I did it for a few months when I was broke as a joke. I'll collect aluminum cans for a living before I go back to being a paralegal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't these sentences conflict?

[Boris]

HP - no.

[eviljeff]

I have several friends who are/were paralegals. none of them like(d) it. you're basically guaranteed the worst parts of being a lawyer because the lawyers will take all the interesting stuff.

[Obfuscation]

[ QUOTE ]
I used to do a lot of temp work as a paralegal in SF. There is absolutely NO REASON WHATSOEVER to do this instead of just going to lawschool and becoming a lawyer. If you work as a paralegal for over a year you are making a huge mistake as you'd be half-way done with lawschool by then.

I can't emphasize this enough. If you're willing to make a living spending all day in a law office, be the lawyer.

natedogg

[/ QUOTE ]

While I understand the sentiment, as the OP doesn;t have an undergrad degree yet, you would be talking another 7 years of school. Probably not that attractive.

Of course, at the end of that, if you bust your ass in law school, then you'll be in great shape to make some bucks. I don't love being a lawyer by any means, but at least they pay me.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
I have several friends who are/were paralegals. none of them like(d) it. you're basically guaranteed the worst parts of being a lawyer because the lawyers will take all the interesting stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

not that there's much interesting stuff to take, but yes.

a paralegal in a (good) solo practice or very small firm is basically an assistant lawyer without the degree, but you will never be paid 1/10 of what your boss makes. a paralegal in BIGLAW is basically the bottom grunt on the coffee totem pole, and while the pay is much better, your life will still turn out to suck hard at completely random intervals.

basically, I have no idea why anyone would be excited about this. it's like being excited about being a secretary, but with less office gossip.

[ThaSaltCracka]

one reason to be a paralegal over a lawyer. The # of hours worked per week.


As for the fun aspect, it totally varies on the type of law you work in. Something financial related is likely to be very boring and tedious. Enviromental, IP, Defense, Entertainment, would be quite fun. My mom is a Paralegal for an IP attorney. She seems to be working on a lot of interesting and cool cases. Plus the attorney you work for has a huge impact on how enjoyable the job is.

You can also make quite a nice chunk of change if you get on with a big firm. $60,000+ per year, possibly even close to 6 figures. You may want to check to see if your state requires a paralegal certificate. Actually a lot firms require it. This is different than a Bachelors degree.

[ThaSaltCracka]

[ QUOTE ]
a paralegal in BIGLAW is basically the bottom grunt on the coffee totem pole,

[/ QUOTE ] actually no. There are legal secretaries that do most of the grunt work at big firms.

[adanthar]

yeah that's true, legal secs have it worse. for paralegals it depends on firm culture/practice area/whether they're attached to a partner, I guess. but the ones I know are either hot girls or various levels of miserable.

[BarryLyndon]

As a paralegal, you will suffer. And suffer greatly. You will do all the work that lawyers hate - making photocopies, talking to idiot clients, doing thousands of pages of research, writing boilerplate (standard) language, spell/grammar checking. Then, when you are wrong, you'll be criticized to the tune of sighs and grunts, because now this means you'll have to do the research again. On some nights, you'll find yourself staying at the firm longer than your boss.

And there is no "ship it, holla," because you're boss gets most if not all of the credit. Now, having said that, if you want to go to law school, being a paralegal is great because you will get credit from admittance boards, assuming that you're LSAT score meets the school's cut.

Since you are asking fellow degenerates, my advice to you is that you find a path that will allow you to more ownership over your work. Paralegals have NO ownership over their work; they have no room to exercise their own thoughts, ideas, or creativity as to a given case.

[ThaSaltCracka]

It seems like a lot of you guys are focusing on the negatives. Every job has negatives. FWIW, I don't think someone could go wrong making a career out of being a paralegal.

[BarryLyndon]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems like a lot of you guys are focusing on the negatives. Every job has negatives. FWIW, I don't think someone could go wrong making a career out of being a paralegal.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that it is crucial with focusing on the negatives whenever advising someone to go into the field of law / paralegalling. You're dealing with something that involves as INTENSE a mental conditioning as any profession; also, the nature of any legal profession can get very ugly. Conversely, many people go into the law with rosy coloured glasses, basing their desire on what they see on "Law and Order" and/or Reese Witherspoon's ass. So, extra caution is necessary.

[Riverman]

I did this for a year after college. It sucked.

[ThaSaltCracka]

oh, I see what you mean. yeah, OP a good warning would be that in a law firm you are dealing with tons of A personalities. If you can handle them, its not a big deal, if not, they will stress you out to no end.

edited to add: based on my own personal experience as a file clerk and legal assistant.

[Riverman]

I should mention, however, that at the firm I worked at (WilmerHale), it was not uncommon for paralegals who had been there 15+ years to be making six figures.

[Rigel]

[ QUOTE ]
I have several friends who are/were paralegals. none of them like(d) it. you're basically guaranteed the worst parts of being a lawyer because the lawyers will take all the interesting stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a lawyer and agree with this statement. Having said that, being a lawyer sucks too but millions of us still do it because it seems to be our best option. The same no doubt applies to many paralegals as well.

[amplify]

In my case, since my skills are so disparate, and my work history is entirely small companies, most of which have gone out of business, are going out of business, or which I owned and went broke doing business. I will not do any kind of tech support, I have an MCSE and so forth but thats worth nothing now, I don't want to continue in marketing, and I can't choose a career right now that involves postgraduate education. So, it seems to be either this or bagging groceries at Kroger unless anyone comes up with a better option, or I hit the Powerball.

I have no illusions that it will be a dream job or anything, but my options are limited and my finances are withered. I really appreciate the responses so far, and will continue to appreciate any further ones.

[claudenm]

[ QUOTE ]
In my case, since my skills are so disparate, and my work history is entirely small companies, most of which have gone out of business, are going out of business, or which I owned and went broke doing business. I will not do any kind of tech support, I have an MCSE and so forth but thats worth nothing now, I don't want to continue in marketing, and I can't choose a career right now that involves postgraduate education. So, it seems to be either this or bagging groceries at Kroger unless anyone comes up with a better option, or I hit the Powerball.

I have no illusions that it will be a dream job or anything, but my options are limited and my finances are withered. I really appreciate the responses so far, and will continue to appreciate any further ones.

[/ QUOTE ]

Welcome the main reasons why I am a paralegal. I think it's a very unfair assumption that we are all afforded the option or have the menas (financial or otherwise) to do what we like/want. I interviewed for a couple jobs, got shut out at alot of places and now I'm making a *comfortable* living in a mundane job. I wish it were better, but it isn't. Perhaps in another year I'll be in a better financial position to be able to do more interesting work. Until then I continue on with half an eye towards more promising opportunities.

[ThaSaltCracka]

Amplify, if you feel you have the skills and previous work history to become a paralegal, you also probably have the skills to do other things. I would explore those other things first, not because being a paralegal is a bad job, but because you don't sound like someone who would enjoy being one.

[SackUp]

I am an attorney.

Paralegal jobs differ immensely depending on the firm and even depending on the department within a firm. Much of the work is geared towards transactional type stuff or paper pushing - filling out forms, doing discovery, some basic research, etc. - basically any of the non fun stuff that the attorneys don't want to do.

With that said, some people really like it as there is by no means the pressure or time element required of an attorney and you still get to do legal stuff. The pay is not so bad and you can get some good benefits.

I definitely think it is a solid job, especially for someone without a college degree. You may want to look into a paralegal program to get certified - though many of those require an undergrad degree.

[ClevelandWasp]

I'm the only law clerk at a small firm (graduating in December) and worked at law firms full time for seven years (all through undergrad and law school). In my experience the paralegal certification might only be useful to get you an interview, depending on the firm. It won't help you at all once you're on the job, in part because you'll probably be working on some really specific area of law. So if you want to pursue this, I would say just try to line up some interviews and skip the paralegal program. If I was the lawyer doing the hiring, I would much rather hire some 37 year-old guy with some common sense/life experience than some 22 year old chick who mistakenly believes she knows anything because she went to community college for two years. So I say what the hell, give it try, if you don't like it maybe try a different firm before you give it up.

[jman220]

There are several paralegals who work in my bureau. They certainly do not get us our coffee. They write motions, answer discovery, interview victims, do legal research, etc. etc. AFAIK they all like their jobs.

[correia]

[ QUOTE ]
Much of the work is geared towards transactional type stuff or paper pushing - filling out forms, doing discovery, some basic research, etc. - basically any of the non fun stuff that the attorneys don't want to do.



[/ QUOTE ]

This is basically how all of the paralegals I know have described their job, with most of them looking for employment elsewhere.

[Howard Treesong]

I'm an attorney: former partner at big law firm, now in-house at Fortune 500 company. I've worked with literally dozens of paralegals over the years. Very very few are actually competent, and many are total boobs. If you're a) competent and b) discipline and c) organized you can do pretty well. A few of the paralegals at my old firm are making north of $100K, but that (almost always) requires significant overtime.

It's a hard job, in the sense that it requires perfection at silly tasks without much intellectual upside. Mistakes cause huge client problems, but perfection gets little reward from most bosses. You'll very likely need to be able to subordinate your ego to someone you may very well be much smarter than, which would have been a problem for me.

Last point: you'll never be a stakeholder in your firm as a paralegal. That's a huge divide. I might suggest taking a paralegal job, then going back to LS in a year or two. Even at your age, the long-term upside is much better as a lawyer, presuming you do well in school -- as I predict you will based solely on your taste in avatars.

[claudenm]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm an attorney: former partner at big law firm, now in-house at Fortune 500 company. I've worked with literally dozens of paralegals over the years. Very very few are actually competent, and many are total boobs. If you're a) competent and b) discipline and c) organized you can do pretty well. A few of the paralegals at my old firm are making north of $100K, but that (almost always) requires significant overtime.

It's a hard job, in the sense that it requires perfection at silly tasks without much intellectual upside. Mistakes cause huge client problems, but perfection gets little reward from most bosses. You'll very likely need to be able to subordinate your ego to someone you may very well be much smarter than, which would have been a problem for me.

Last point: you'll never be a stakeholder in your firm as a paralegal. That's a huge divide. I might suggest taking a paralegal job, then going back to LS in a year or two. Even at your age, the long-term upside is much better as a lawyer, presuming you do well in school -- as I predict you will based solely on your taste in avatars.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your last one is a moot point. No paralegals every expect to be a stakeholder in their firm. It's just like saying no paralegal will ever make $500,000.

Also, most associates won't be a stakeholder in their firm, and even if they do make partner it's even more rare to make equity partner.