Communicating with the dead

[Sponger.]

I've heard so many times in my life people say stuff like "I just know my father was looking down on me and smiling" or "I talk to my mom every night before I go to sleep" or "I know my brother helped me out in that game" all talking about dead people they think are in heaven and are somehow watching, communicating with them, or influencing actions on earth.

Anyways, Is there anyone on here who thinks this kind of stuff? Why?

[vhawk01]

Literally? No.

[arahant]

Well, I know YOUR mom is watching me right now...

Seriously, I'm sure there is, but I'll give you 3:1 they won't admit it.

[bunny]

I dont believe it (dont know if you wanted an answer from a naysayer or not, perhaps it will provoke an answer from a believer...)

There have been many instances where hoax mediums have been exposed - many of whom were well respected in "esoteric" circles, until they got caught, of course. The evidence people have for believing in contact with dead people is flimsy and unconvincing.

[Sponger.]

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There have been many instances where hoax mediums have been exposed - many of whom were well respected in "esoteric" circles, until they got caught, of course. The evidence people have for believing in contact with dead people is flimsy and unconvincing.

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I'm not talking about people like John Edwards or other psychics.

[bunny]

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There have been many instances where hoax mediums have been exposed - many of whom were well respected in "esoteric" circles, until they got caught, of course. The evidence people have for believing in contact with dead people is flimsy and unconvincing.

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I'm not talking about people like John Edwards or other psychics.

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Dont the people who believe in after-death contact cite people like that as evidence?

[vhawk01]

From what I remember, the % of Americans who believe in ghosts is pretty high, like over 50%.

[arahant]

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From what I remember, the % of Americans who believe in ghosts is pretty high, like over 50%.

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Seriously. What the [censored] is wrong with people?

[vhawk01]

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From what I remember, the % of Americans who believe in ghosts is pretty high, like over 50%.

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Seriously. What the [censored] is wrong with people?

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Most of the people I talk to about ghosts (obviously an extremely biased selection process) are first shocked that I DONT believe in ghosts, and then pretty indignant about their personal ghost experiences and the obvious, logical validity of ghosts. Its an identical experience to arguing with very naive theists (I meant that as a slight to very naive theists, not claiming all theists are very naive)

[vhawk01]

2003 Harris poll:

51% of the public, including 58% of women, and 65% of those aged 25 to 29 but only 27% of those aged 65 and over believe in ghosts.

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
2003 Harris poll:

51% of the public, including 58% of women, and 65% of those aged 25 to 29 but only 27% of those aged 65 and over believe in ghosts.

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Fascinating numbers because they are reverse to the trend in religious belief ( higher in the older generation). I wonder if it reflects youths tendency to believe off-the-wall stuff as the find their footing? Perhaps it's the larger trust youth places on hands-on experience.

luckyme

[SNOWBALL]

Talking to people that believe in ghosts makes me want to stop talking to people in general /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[reb]

I'll speculate a little. I think many/all of these incidents is simply the mind projecting the dead person (Strong memories, personality etc, obviously this has to be someone close). Maybe the mind projects some encouraging memory as real-time communication or extrapolates something else based on the memories and personality of the dead person during periods of grief or something similar.

[vhawk01]

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2003 Harris poll:

51% of the public, including 58% of women, and 65% of those aged 25 to 29 but only 27% of those aged 65 and over believe in ghosts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fascinating numbers because they are reverse to the trend in religious belief ( higher in the older generation). I wonder if it reflects youths tendency to believe off-the-wall stuff as the find their footing? Perhaps it's the larger trust youth places on hands-on experience.

luckyme

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Its possible. The ghost numbers are very similar to the astrology and reincarnation numbers as well, at least with respect to age breakdown. 40% of people in my age group believe they were a different person in a former life!!!

I wonder how many of that 40% think they were a king or emperor? 98%?

[FortunaMaximus]

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From what I remember, the % of Americans who believe in ghosts is pretty high, like over 50%.

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Seriously. What the [censored] is wrong with people?

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Too much sugar, too much Hollywood, Uri Geller, telekinetic cats that attend Duke.

Superstition and the necessity to believe that death isn't the end may have more of an impact on people's psychology than any other single event. I realize i'm stating the obvious, but this type of irrationality may be why religion has such a huge entrenched place in society.

And for many, religion alone may not be enough, so it creates a market for the occult. People are fond of rituals and find comfort in anything they wish to be true. Perhaps it's the hopeful fact if you create a solid mass of belief, it may be self-perpetuating.

These things just have less societal acceptance than religion. That may add more to the absurdity of such beliefs, I guess.

[vhawk01]

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From what I remember, the % of Americans who believe in ghosts is pretty high, like over 50%.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously. What the [censored] is wrong with people?

[/ QUOTE ]

Too much sugar, too much Hollywood, Uri Geller, telekinetic cats that attend Duke.

Superstition and the necessity to believe that death isn't the end may have more of an impact on people's psychology than any other single event. I realize i'm stating the obvious, but this type of irrationality may be why religion has such a huge entrenched place in society.

And for many, religion alone may not be enough, so it creates a market for the occult. People are fond of rituals and find comfort in anything they wish to be true. Perhaps it's the hopeful fact if you create a solid mass of belief, it may be self-perpetuating.

These things just have less societal acceptance than religion. That may add more to the absurdity of such beliefs, I guess.

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And its not just the innate need, its reinforced by social discourse and norms as well. How many times in your life do you hear people say things along the lines of "Sure I don't believe in religion, but I am spiritual" or "You have to have faith in SOMETHING." So, you have young people who hate church, and feel they certainly MUST be spiritual in some way, or believe SOMETHING based on faith, so they choose ghosts, or reincarnation, or astrology, or whatever. It allows them to fill the void, whether the void itself is real or imagined. I personally think it is more imagined than real, and I may eventually convince madnak of that. But that is based entirely on my own personal experience, and seems to be entirely contradicted by all the evidence, so I must be wrong. I just honestly have no need for 'spirituality' whatsoever. I have no desire to have faith in anything. I do have faith in a few, core things, but only because I cannot think of any other way. These things are basically physical uniformity and logic(causation). Thats the list.

[carlo]

Read the "Egyptian Book of the Dead" and the "Tibetian Book of the dead" which may offer some insight into speaking to the dead. Also, the Catholic church has prayers for the dead which originally were much more than "abstract words" but "living thoughts" to the dead. I am sure that other religions offer similar rites.

As far as the "man on the street" is concerned it is easy to make him a target for it is something he knows little of but certainly the critics know even less.

carlo

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
Read the "Egyptian Book of the Dead" and the "Tibetian Book of the dead" which may offer some insight into speaking to the dead. Also, the Catholic church has prayers for the dead which originally were much more than "abstract words" but "living thoughts" to the dead. I am sure that other religions offer similar rites.

As far as the "man on the street" is concerned it is easy to make him a target for it is something he knows little of but certainly the critics know even less.

carlo

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Certainly? The critics CERTAINLY know less than the average person? This seems absurd on its face.

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
Read the "Egyptian Book of the Dead" and the "Tibetian Book of the dead" which may offer some insight into speaking to the dead. Also, the Catholic church has prayers for the dead which originally were much more than "abstract words" but "living thoughts" to the dead. I am sure that other religions offer similar rites.

As far as the "man on the street" is concerned it is easy to make him a target for it is something he knows little of but certainly the critics know even less.

carlo

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wow. There is an Authority on Speaking to the Dead? I gotta get out more, bloody bureaucracy is getting out of hand. I hope they have some evidence this time, I'm getting a bit tired of the pompous little twits behind the desk claiming they know something and all it turns out is they have the Ozian diploma.

luckyme

[revots33]

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2003 Harris poll:

51% of the public, including 58% of women, and 65% of those aged 25 to 29 but only 27% of those aged 65 and over believe in ghosts.

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I'm surprised the numbers are that low, since 84% of Americans believe in life after death. If you believe people's souls can be floating around in heaven, why not on earth also?

Maybe older people are more religious and find the idea of ghosts to be blasphemous.

[arahant]

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If you believe people's souls can be floating around in heaven, why not on earth also?


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Don't be silly. The difference is obvious!

[DougShrapnel]

I believe it's possible, but I don't believe that most communication with the dead is anything more than dilusion. But I assign a bit of magic thinking to consciousness in order to get at the possibilty. I have a certian worderment about concousness. I'm not prepared to say that mind = brain just yet.

There is also the slight possiblity that reality is entirely subjective. In which case the "dead" never were "alive" to begin with, and would be easier to "communicate" with.

I also will state that I have no compelling eviedence that communication with the dead is happening.

[MaxWeiss]

Really and actually communicating, no. But that doesn't negate the power that a dead person had while they were alive, and it doesn't negate that you may still think about them and how they would react in certain situations. Some people do this aloud. Whatever. It may be therapeutic and also help them see things in a different way.

But are they actually talking to them? No, of course not.