AA in Call-down Mode

[74o_Clownsuit]

Villian is unknown.

Full Tilt Poker
$1/$2 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
5 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
CO: $373.75
BTN: $230.20
SB: $199.1
BB: $71.1
Hero (UTG): $217.20

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> A/images/graemlins/spade.gif Ahttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif ($3, 5 players)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $7</font>, CO folds, BTN folds, SB calls $6, BB folds

<font color="black">Flop:</font> Qhttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif 6http://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($16, 2 players)
<font color="red">SB bets $14</font>, Hero calls $14

<font color="black">Turn:</font> Qhttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif 6http://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif [8/images/graemlins/spade.gif] ($44, 2 players)
<font color="red">SB bets $28</font>, Hero calls $28

<font color="black">River:</font> Qhttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif 6http://legopoker.com/hh/images/club.gif 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif [3http://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif] ($100, 2 players)
<font color="red">SB bets $64</font>, Hero???

[raze]

Call &amp; pray? I can't find a fold anywhere, and I think a river raise is trouble.

[setjes]

I like it

[noob_sauce]

My first instinct was to pop the river... I think we're against a lone Q here a fair amount of the time...

I think a river call is fine though... we don't give up too much by not raising IMO and that is a very sizeable bet already...

[jimmyhat1000]

Wp. Gained the most value from a Q when your ahead and lost the least when your behind, nh.

[poppingit]

ya i like it too

[Valerio]

not many unknowns would play a flopped set like this. I would imagine he has AQ, KQ, QJ, or 75 that was semibluffing until the river. I would call on river.

[Al_Money]

This is fine without reads. If you know the player stacks off light, I find a raise somewhere, probably the turn.

[cbboy]

I think I play it the same.

[SABR42]

No one raises the flop?

Man, you guys are weak.

[jk3a]

raise river

[Jigsaws]

Totally fine vs. an unknown. I often raise flop donks with air, though, so if I've been caught doing that I'd do it here.

[74o_Clownsuit]

[ QUOTE ]
raise river

[/ QUOTE ]
Really want to squeeze value out of a Q don't you?

[jk3a]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
raise river

[/ QUOTE ]
Really want to squeeze value out of a Q don't you?

[/ QUOTE ]

hard to resist /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[Ben K]

Without reads I think I at least raise the flop. Why should I let him take the initiative away from me? He was the one who called preflop.

I think, if he had a set, he'd check to you for you to c-bet and then he'd decide. It's not like you're going to check behind with AA, or anything else heads up for that matter. It's most likely a solitary Q that leads and so he'll probably call a reraise on the flop then check to you on the turn for pot control. You can then play in control and in position.

I'm a bit confused as to why so many people are happy with the passiveness here. Could someone explain what I've missed??

[amoeba]

[ QUOTE ]
Without reads I think I at least raise the flop. Why should I let him take the initiative away from me? He was the one who called preflop.

I think, if he had a set, he'd check to you for you to c-bet and then he'd decide. It's not like you're going to check behind with AA, or anything else heads up for that matter. It's most likely a solitary Q that leads and so he'll probably call a reraise on the flop then check to you on the turn for pot control. You can then play in control and in position.

I'm a bit confused as to why so many people are happy with the passiveness here. Could someone explain what I've missed??

[/ QUOTE ]

it all has to do with how big a pot you want to play with AA on a fairly drawless board and your image.

[Thremp]

I raise flop. 57 is only draw that got there and its real thin. I also raise flop since I do it with a larger range.

[pokerchap]

raise please?

[HoldEmNewby]

Playing like this is really tough because you're essentially calling in the dark. I like a read to do this so I know when to fold and when to shove the river. Against an unknown I'd be tempted to push or raise that turn and rep a flush draw in the process.

[74o_Clownsuit]

Flop is incredibly dry and that's the primary reason why I just call here. If I wanted to take the pot away from a regular with air instead of AA here, I would probably just call as well and look to steal on the turn.

[ikestoys]

deserved to lose this hand

[74o_Clownsuit]

[ QUOTE ]
deserved to lose this hand

[/ QUOTE ]
wtf?

Care to explain why? It's not always correct to bet, raise, raise etc with AA on any flop. I just called the flop because there are few turn cards that scare me and if he's bluffing, hey, let him continue to do so. I think a raise is O.K. because I could get some value out of Q's but because he's unknown I'll err on the side of the caution.

[Casper05]

I think your line is fine...the only hand we're getting more value out of by taking the initiative is AQ, but we'll lose a ton vs weaker Qx by raising and then bet/bet. We'll also lose more to hands that dominate us.

[Vammakala]

Call and laugh at his AQ.

[ikestoys]

I doubt that villain is on a pure bluff...

...If you aren't being nitastic, a raise doesn't kill the value from a Q on the flop.

...You charge for any draw the player might have (75s wouldn't be unusual here).

...If he is fastplaying a set, you find out before showdown

[Casper05]

It doesnt kill value on the flop, it kills value when he folds the turn/river.

[Freelancer]

As played I probably fold the river, not a lot of people lead 3 streets without having AA beat.

I would raise this flop like 90% of the time with AA or ATC though, I have a carefully set up image just for this...

[ikestoys]

[ QUOTE ]
It doesnt kill value on the flop, it kills value when he folds the turn/river.

[/ QUOTE ]

a villain who is throwing three value bets here with a Q isn't necessarily folding a Q.

[prodonkey]

I see donkeys lead 3 streets and have JK there. I don't see a problem with calling. For the people that want to flop raise.. so you raise to 40ish. So he calls... pot is almost 100, bet 80 on the turn and fold if he says screw it and shoves his AQ? Or are you calling if he check raises?

[ikestoys]

i'm folding to this action very rarely

[74o_Clownsuit]

I think raising a really dry flop like this to "find out if he has a set" is usually bad because of all the times he is weak and just folds to the raise...

In anycase, I called... he had TT.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f320/marksie25/Dudewtf.jpg

Thanks for all the replies.

[Redd]

[ QUOTE ]
I also raise flop since I do it with a larger range.

[/ QUOTE ]

But the unknown Villain doesn't know that you do that yet. I think I like the whole hand.

[Casper05]

nh, Free would have been owned /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[74o_Clownsuit]

[ QUOTE ]
nh, Free would have been owned /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Let's not jump to results-oriented conclusions, but in general I think raising here is pretty bad. Of course image should be taken into account, but hell, I'm running at 25/23 these days.

Given some history I am more prone to raise this flop in certain cases. If I know villian to be a total stackfiend with any Q then it's raising time.