Good News In WA

[EasilyConfused]

Just introduced:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Jan. 23, 2007

In-home recreational internet gaming shouldn’t be a felony, says Strow

10th District legislator introduces bill to provide an affirmative defense to the Class C Felony created by 2006 internet gambling bill



Rep. Chris Strow, R-Whidbey Island, today announced his legislation, House Bill 1243, to quash the felony charge language in last year’s legislation addressing in-home internet gambling.

“My goal with this legislation is to correct an element from last year’s online gambling bill, Senate Bill 6613, that made it a Class C Felony to gamble recreationally in one’s own home if it is done online,” said Strow.

“While I do see the need for protecting our citizens from online gaming that may be scamming innocent victims, I do think that there is also a level of accountability, as an adult, to do as he or she chooses in his or her own home,” said Strow. “Most certainly choosing to gamble, or play a game of skill such as poker, should not have been made a crime equivalent to possessing child pornography or threatening the Governor.”

House Bill 1243 is currently awaiting a hearing in the House Commerce and Labor Committee.

“While I have requested a hearing on the bill, people need to call and write the Chairman of the House Commerce and Labor Committee, Representative Steve Conway, and ask him to schedule a hearing for House Bill 1243,” said Strow. Rep. Conway can be reached at (360) 786-7906 or Conway.steve@leg.wa.gov.

“There’s a certain point at which policy can be perceived as ‘nanny stateish.’ I think we reached that point with last year’s legislation and I’m aiming to make amends,” said Strow.

[EasilyConfused]

If you live in WA, please contact your representatives about this bill, and BE POLITE. You can find your legislator here:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/DistrictFinder/Default.aspx

[EasilyConfused]

Also, it would be helpful if people would post this press release on other forums. We need to flood the legislature with calls on this one.

[Lucky]

Also, everyone call Strow's office, and commend him on introducing this bill. Doesnt matter where you live. These state legislators judge what their doing by the amount of response they get. Also, if this story gets big enough, they'll be story on fark, with 'hero' tag next to it, space on drudgereport, etc.

[Lucky]

just called strow's office, receptionist was very friendly and glad/surprised to get call from wisconsin. Keep calling, i'm now going to call the other guys office.

[catlover]

Can anybody find a link to the text of the bill?

I'm certainly glad to see this. I'm also a bit concerned about the word "recreationally". As written would this apply to us or not.

[1p0kerboy]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm certainly glad to see this. I'm also a bit concerned about the word "recreationally". As written would this apply to us or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

I recreationally play 10 tables for 50 hours a week. U?

[ZPinhead]

Done and done. Thanks for the heads up on this!!!

[Lucky]

Question for all you guys who write articles and submit them to promote website:

How exactly do you go about submitting this type of news release to get it picked up by abc, cbs, foxnews, etc???

Do you have to email them one by one, or are there clearinghouses???

[ZPinhead]

_____________________________________________
HOUSE BILL 1243
_____________________________________________
State of Washington 60th Legislature 2007 Regular Session
By Representatives Strow, Kirby, Upthegrove, B. Sullivan, Simpson and
Appleton
Read first time 01/15/2007. Referred to Committee on Commerce & Labor.


AN ACT Relating to providing an affirmative defense to unlawful
internet gambling if the defendant committed the offense in his or her
primary residence; and amending RCW 9.46.240.

BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF WASHINGTON:
Sec. 1. RCW 9.46.240 and 2006 c 290 s 2 are each amended to read
as follows:
(1) Whoever knowingly transmits or receives gambling information by
telephone, telegraph, radio, semaphore, the internet, a
telecommunications transmission system, or similar means, or knowingly
installs or maintains equipment for the transmission or receipt of
gambling information shall be guilty of a class C felony subject to the
penalty set forth in RCW 9A.20.021. However, this section shall not
apply to such information transmitted or received or equipment
installed or maintained relating to activities authorized by this
chapter or to any act or acts in furtherance thereof when conducted in
compliance with the provisions of this chapter and in accordance with
the rules adopted under this chapter.

(2) In a prosecution for a violation of this section, it is an
affirmative defense, which the defendant must prove by a preponderance
of the evidence, that the defendant transmitted or received the
gambling information over the internet, or that the defendant installed
or maintained equipment for the transmission or receipt of gambling
information over the internet, in his or her primary residence for
recreational purposes. For purposes of this subsection, "recreational
purposes" means for the defendant's own enjoyment and not as part of an
enterprise that derives income from operating an internet web site that
transmits or receives gambling information.

[catlover]

OK, I read that and I'm still not sure if it applies to me or not.

[1p0kerboy]

"recreational
purposes" means for the defendant's own enjoyment and not as part of an
enterprise that derives income from operating an internet web site that
transmits or receives gambling information.

[slavic]

Here's hopen that this leads to good things.

Unfortunatly it's only a 2 month session and the budget, sonics, and the big dig are going to be bigger topics.

[catlover]

Yeah, OK, I enjoy it, I don't operate an internet web site . . . but I'm also a professional. Can I be both "recreational" and "professional"?

[atomicsoda]

I like that the legislator said this “Most certainly choosing to gamble, or play a game of skill such as poker ..."

He must be a player.

[demon102]

I knew internet gambling was illeagal in that state but I cant believe that they made internet gambling into a felony thats just insane since a felony conviction can effect u the rest of ur life. WTF?

[zook]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, OK, I enjoy it, I don't operate an internet web site . . . but I'm also a professional. Can I be both "recreational" and "professional"?

[/ QUOTE ]
This is the key question. The way I read it, the last sentence defines "recreational enjoyment" as ANYTHING that doesn't involve operating an internet website that transmits or receives gambling information. So I think you're good, but it could be a lot clearer /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[kyleb]

Sick, this is great news.

[kyleb]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, OK, I enjoy it, I don't operate an internet web site . . . but I'm also a professional. Can I be both "recreational" and "professional"?

[/ QUOTE ]
This is the key question. The way I read it, the last sentence defines "recreational enjoyment" as ANYTHING that doesn't involve operating an internet website that transmits or receives gambling information. So I think you're good, but it could be a lot clearer /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

It's clear. Players are fine, people who operate affiliate websites or gambling sites are not.

[Freakin]

everyone who is a WA state resident needs to send at least 1 letter and make at least 1 phone call.

this is a very important step in the right direction.

[EasilyConfused]

Even if you're not a WA resident, go ahead and get in touch with Rep. Steve Conway at (360) 786-7906 or Conway.steve@leg.wa.gov. The bill is in his committee. Urge him to hold a hearing. And as always, BE POLITE.

And if you want to let Rep. Strow know you're grateful, you can reach his office at (360) 786-7884.

The other thing non-WA residents can do is to make sure this press release gets posted in as many different forums as possible.

[jzpiano]

I live in MI, but I'm going to give them both a call tomorrow

[LTRAiiN]

i live in Woodinville and wrote my reps to request a hearing.....i wrote conway to ask him to schedule a hearing himself.

i think that this law last year got enough publicity that it actually might of scared some people from playing. whenever i tell someone that I play online, they say "you know thats a felony now right?" I say "yes and I'm moving to vegas after my first arrest, until then it doesn't concern me."

[LTRAiiN]

that legislation was completey laughable. they dont care if people gamble, they just want them to gamble at the indian casinos if they do.

i dont want to drive 45 minutes to the boonies only to wait an hour for a seat. yes most of the players really suck, but its far greater EV to multi-table save time and $$$ to sit on my ass at home.

no tipping, no huge rake, what rake there is i get a portion back, can play lower stakes at multiple tables, i mean come on. playing live everyone in while is still fun but its just too much of a hassle.

[Sparta45]

Can somebody break this down for me?? Exactly, what types of things should we say when we call or e-mail these guys??

[sarahbellum]

[ QUOTE ]
Can anybody find a link to the text of the bill?

I'm certainly glad to see this. I'm also a bit concerned about the word "recreationally". As written would this apply to us or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/billinfo/summary.aspx?year=2007&bill=1243

http://www.leg.wa.gov/pub/billinfo/2007-08/Pdf/Bills/House%20Bills/1243.pdf

[Troll_Inc]

“While I do see the need for protecting our citizens from online gaming that may be scamming innocent victims, I do think that there is also a level of accountability, as an adult, to do as he or she chooses in his or her own home,” said Strow. “Most certainly choosing to gamble, or play a game of skill such as poker, should not have been made a crime equivalent to possessing child pornography or threatening the Governor.”

This is good news and all; however, I always find it interesting that a lot of this legislation has at its background the "protect-people-from-predators".

If I were any legis committee or influencing policy, my questions would be:

1) Is this such a huge problem? Are there a lot of people being scammed by internet sites? A: One could easily prove that 95% poker traffic is on PArty, FT, STars, etc. Have those sites scammed _anyone_ out of money? Show me these complaints.

2) And if this was a huge problem (why not regulate the sites) and bring them in-state.

3) If we are going to protect people, why do we not make other things that harm people illegal, like firearms, alcohol, and state lotteries? A: We don't, so clearly that line of reasoning is logically falicious.

[EasilyConfused]

Sparta -- You don't have to say much. Just say something like "please support H.B. 1243, to stop recreational poker players from becoming convicted felons. Please ask Rep. Conway to schedule a hearing on the bill in his committee."

If you're calling Rep. Strow, say something like "thank you for introducing H.B. 1243. We poker players appreciate it."

You can add whatever else you want, but that's really good enough. When you call a legislator about a bill you get marked on a tally sheet basically the same way no matter how long-winded you are.

[TomG]

I sent my state legislatures emails in support of the bill. I do appreciate our state legislatures actually listening to the public in order to correct a mistake. But the pessimist inside me says this is meaningless. No one was prosecuted under the new law. Furthermore this bill doesn't legalize anything. It will reduce the the penalty back to a misdemeanor which will have little practical benefit while online gambling remains a target on the federal level.

[EasilyConfused]

The bill doesn't reduce the penalty to a misdemeanor. It provides an affirmative defense against prosecution unless you're running a gambling site.

[Sparta45]

Done. I contacted both of them. Didn't take long.

[ekdikeo]

jzpiano: MIch here too, but I dropped him an email thanking him and suggesting that he could go far in a political career /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Freakin]

[ QUOTE ]
The bill doesn't reduce the penalty to a misdemeanor. It provides an affirmative defense against prosecution unless you're running a gambling site.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is the important part.

[ZPinhead]

[ QUOTE ]
Can somebody break this down for me?? Exactly, what types of things should we say when we call or e-mail these guys??

[/ QUOTE ]

I put something together that I sent out and have gotten several positive responses from already.

[ QUOTE ]
Representative {Insert Name},

I would like to bring your attention to what I feel is an important piece of recently introduced legistation. I am referring to HB 1243 (bill to provide an affirmative defense to the Class C Felony created by 2006 internet gambling bill) introduced by Rep. Chris Strow.


I feel Senate Bill 6613 (banning internet gambling) which was passed during last years session, was completely overboard in making online gaming a Class C Felony within the state of Washington. Whether I choose to gamble in a completely legal 'Brick and Mortar' casino or in the comfort of my own home should be my choice to make. While I feel that the state of Washington should do its best to protect its citizens, that protection should not extend to the point of 'babysitting' said citizens in order to protect them from themselves.


Thank you for your time,

{Me}

[/ QUOTE ]

[EasilyConfused]

Great e-mail. Would you mind posting responses as you get them?

[ZPinhead]

[ QUOTE ]
Great e-mail. Would you mind posting responses as you get them?

[/ QUOTE ]

This was the first one I got from Rep. Fred Jarrett:

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the heads up. I will get with Chris to learn about the bill and how I can help.


I don't know what is happening on SB 6613. I know of the problems it caused and suspect there may be action. I will find out and report to you.


Take care,
{.gif signature}

[/ QUOTE ]

[ZPinhead]

Just got a second reply from Rep. Jarrett:

[ QUOTE ]

Thank you for your note regarding HB 1243. I appreciate hearing your
views and I agree with your comments. I will watch for this bill to
come before me for a vote and plan to support it when it does.

Take care,

Fred Jarrett
State Representative
41st Legislative District


[/ QUOTE ]

[pifhluk]

Not from WA but I sent both of them an email + bump for this thread need everyone to at least call or write whether youre from WA or not.

[PBJaxx]

[ QUOTE ]
Not from WA but I sent both of them an email + bump for this thread need everyone to at least call or write whether youre from WA or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you mind posting your email for those of us not from WA?

[Reef]

bump

[Jonahdog]

This is already on P5s, but seems to have been quiet there - I'm going to try and amp it up a bit - thanks for this thread everyone.

[Jonahdog]

Great draft ZP - hope you don't mind if I post it over on P5s.

[Jonahdog]

Just posted this as well on P5s, since it's been quiet over there:
http://www.pocketfives.com/834A3808-3570-4E94-8790-D0A88CC2CD2A.aspx

[EasilyConfused]

Nice work.

[morphball]

[ QUOTE ]
(2) In a prosecution for a violation of this section, it is an
affirmative defense, which the defendant must prove by a preponderance
of the evidence, that the defendant transmitted or received the
gambling information over the internet, or that the defendant installed
or maintained equipment for the transmission or receipt of gambling
information over the internet, in his or her primary residence for
recreational purposes. For purposes of this subsection, "recreational
purposes" means for the defendant's own enjoyment and not as part of an
enterprise that derives income from operating an internet web site that
transmits or receives gambling information.

[/ QUOTE ]

This means if you aren't pokerstars, this applies to you right? Awesome development!

[EasilyConfused]

Bump. Just making sure everyone who might be motivated to call a legislator gets a look at this thread.

[plaster8]

One more bump. I just e-mailed my representatives, as well as a thank-you to Rep. Strow and a request for a hearing to Rep. Conway.

Thanks for all the work on this, everyone.

[kyleb]

I sent an email to the state senator and representatives and called Reps. Strow and Conway, leaving a message with Conway and speaking to Strow's legislative aide (who was very nice).

I'm going to the University of Washington to speak to the College Libertarians with regard to the bill and spread the word. I'll probably put up some flyers around campus in the upcoming week or so as well.

[kyleb]

http://www.leg.wa.gov/House/Committees/CL/

This is Rep. Conway's Committee Schedule, so if he schedules it, it will be here.

Here's how the emails went down:

Me: Standard email saying please review House Bill 1243
Her: Thank you for your comments, thousands of people from all over the country feel the same way you do and we are hearing from them.
Me: Any idea when it will be reviewed?
Her: Sorry, but I'm not aware of his committee hearing schedule. But, I have attached a link to the committee web page, so you can keep an eye out for it...

http://www.leg.wa.gov/House/Committees/CL/

[mbpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
But the pessimist inside me says this is meaningless.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's not meaningless. At the very least it will create some positive momentum for others to follow.

[ThreePutt]

Here is the response I received back from Representative Larry Springer, 45th District:
-------------------
Thanks for the email. The bill passed last session simply brought
Washington state law into concurrence with Federal law. After the bills
passage the Federal government has now imposed penalties in excess of
our state laws. The future of online gambling appears to rest with the
Federal government since they continue to impose laws that supersede
Washington state law.

Regarding HB 1243, I have not yet read the bill but will speak with the
bill's sponsor and consider your comments before making a final
decision, should the bill make it to the floor of the House for a vote.

Thanks again, and as always please feel free to contact me anytime.

Regards,

Larry Springer

45th District State Representative
----------------------

I'm not sure Larry has a solid grasp of the UIGEA. Anyone have any suggestions on how to reply to this?

[NPIII]

The other thing you can do is visit
http://washingtonvotes.org/Legislation.aspx?ID=49060

This site has info on house and senate bills and a forum where people express their views. SB 6613 is *still* the most commented legislation on their site. It would be great if HB 1243 became second (or even first). Go there and politely express your views!

[NPIII]

You can also contact anyone in the media that you know. The more we get this out the better off we will be.

[cardcounter0]

I called Rep. Stow's office to thank him for introducing H.B. 1243 and expressing my support. The aide that answered the phone told me they were surprised at the widespread volume of support they were getting.

[ZPinhead]

[ QUOTE ]
You can also contact anyone in the media that you know. The more we get this out the better off we will be.

[/ QUOTE ]

In searching through the Seattle PI website I found several articles that came out after SB 6613 went into effect. One was written by Mike Lewis mikelewis@seattlepi.com (a reporter for the PI) http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/280330_poker07.html and another by Cathy Sorbo (she has a Saturday column) http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/saturdayspin/280149_sorbo05.html

Perhaps we should start by emailing them and letting them know about HB 1243? (I already have). I suspect the more noise that we make about this bill, the more chance that we have. (squeaky wheel theory)

[NPIII]

That's a great idea - thanks!
I will do so as well.

In addition, I know that Dori Monson (a radio talk show host) and Ken Schram (TV and radio commentator) were media people who fought against SB 6613. Maybe if they recieve emails and phone calls from a lot of us, they will be willing to take up the HB 1243 call.

[KotOD]

From the press release:

“Most certainly choosing to gamble, or play a game of skill such as poker..."

If this passes, it sets up an interesting carve-out in other places.

[plaster8]

This is the response I sent to one of my legislators after I got the "we were just bring state law into compliance with federal law" response. Any improvements/suggestions for future use? Am I way off base with this?

(After rereading it in the post preview, it seems to me that this response is far too long. Oh well.)

Rep. Anderson,

Thanks for your response. I have a couple of further questions/comments, if you don't mind. I appreciate your time.

First, as I understand it (I am not a lawyer), federal law does not specifically outlaw Internet gambling. The recent federal legislation targets financial institutions regarding the funding of online gaming accounts. While the government has claimed that individuals who gamble online are in violation of the Wire Act, that is a grey area with much disagreement in the legal community. In my mind, the state went above and beyond federal gambling law with a law that is unfairly harsh and punitive.

I'd like to refer you to an interesting article by a California attorney regarding Internet gambling. He makes some very good points and speaks to the unclear nature of federal law. (http://therxcasinos.com/blog_neteller-legal.php)

Do you play poker, Mr. Anderson? If you do, you'll note that it's a game of skill. Yes, there's an element of chance to it. But skill comes into play far more than in, say, roulette or craps. I've made a yearly profit at poker in each of the past four years. (I play small stakes, and report my earnings appropriately to the IRS; we're not talking tens of thousands of dollars here.) And I'm not saying that I'm a great player; I've got a lot to learn. But four years isn't a lucky streak. I study the game, I think about the game, I practice the game. There's certainly skill involved.

I enjoyed playing online poker because of the variety of games and stakes offered (because overhead costs are low, online casinos can afford to offer one-cent and two-cent limits, believe it or not). And it was more convenient for me as well. However, I was forced to stop playing when the new state law took effect.

I'm sure people have lost a lot of money playing online poker. I'm also quite certain that people have lost a lot of money playing in live games at casinos. And still more people have lost money gambling on horse racing, which inexplicably has a carve-out in the state law, making it legal to bet on horses online. Can you tell me why this is?

I won't even get into the state-promoted lottery, which is, in essence, a tax on the poor and uneducated.

Rep. Anderson, the vast majority of people who gamble are like me -- they budget their money responsibly and choose to gamble as a form of entertainment. Please allow us the freedom to continue to make that choice.

Sincerely,
XXXXXXXXXX

[NPIII]

Feedback for your letter.

Positives: It is polite and makes many good points. It accentuates the fact that responsible gamblers are suffering under SB 6613.

Negatives: Too long. Unlikely that this lawmaker will go to your link. Your link could be argued is from a biased source (online casinos). Also, according to Washington state law, anything with *any* amount of luck at all is considered gambling. You and I can argue that poker is a game of skill (and it *is*), but we can't claim that there is no luck in it. Therefore, according to state law, it is gambling. (That is another Washington State law I would love to try and change.)

I would also try to reword the "grey area" section about the Wire Act. Instead of implying maybe it applies and maybe it doesn't, you should say that there has never been a single court ruling that says the Wire Act applies to anything other than sports betting over the telephone.

Hope that helps.

[plaster8]

Thanks for your thoughts. Thia one has already been sent, but I will revise it for future correspondence.

[ekdikeo]

I attempted to leave a comment, but it looks like it doesn't actually accept them, it just says it does.

[NPIII]

Bump

[NPIII]

Here are all the committee members to help get this bill through:
Committee Members:

Steve Conway - Chair (D)
Alex Wood - Vice Chair (D)
Cary Condotta - Ranking Minority Member (R)
Bruce Chandler - Asst Ranking Minority Member (R)
Larry Crouse (R)
Tami Green (D)
Jim Moeller (D)
Brendan Williams (D)



Here is the info for the head of the committee and its staff:

Telephone: (360) 786-7125
Fax: (360) 786-7018
Toll-Free Legislative Hotline: 1-800-562-6000

Representative Steve Conway - Chair (D)

Committee Staff
Jill Reinmuth, Counsel 786-7134
Joan Elgee, Counsel 786-7106
Sarah Beznoska, Counsel 786-7109
Matthew Meacham, Legislative Assistant 786-7125

[HelloandGoodby90]

Here is the address of all their e-mails:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/memberemail/Default.aspx?Chamber=H

[HelloandGoodby90]

Even if you do not live in Washington State, I ask for your support of poker players here. Last year, Bill 6613 was passed, that made it a Class C Felony to gamble online. The Class C Felony is the equivalent to torturing animals, possession of child porn, and threatening the Governor. This sentence is terribly unfair, and it has a chance to be amended. But Washington needs everyones help to do it. Bill 1243 has been introduced to the Washington State House of Representatives. This bill seeks to correct the element of Bill 6613 that made it a felony to gamble online. When you get a chance, please help. Together, we can beat anyone who stands in the way of the game we love.

You probably don't want to write your own, so you can copy and paste the one I wrote.

Representative-

Last year, Bill 6613 was passed in Washington State. This Bill made it a Class C Felony to gamble online. A Class C Felony is the same thing as threatening the governor, possessing child porn, and torturing animals. That sentence is very harsh. Gambling for cents as a hobby, in the privacy of a person's own living room, should not make them a felon. This injustice has a chance to be corrected. Bill 1243, which seeks to eliminate the Class C Felony aspect of Bill 6613, is now alive in the House Commerce and Labor committee. I feel very strongly about this issue, and believe that gambling online should in no way be criminalized. Please support this Bill.

YOUR NAME HERE

Here are the e-mail adresses of the members of the House Commerce and Labor Commitee who need to be written to. The first one listed is the chairman, who decides if the Bill is given a hearing. He is our main target. Write to him if first, and if you get a chance, as many of the others as you can.

conway.steve@leg.wa.gov
wood.alex@leg.wa.gov
condotta.cary@leg.wa.gov
chandler.bruce@leg.wa.gov
crouse.larry@leg.wa.gov
green.tami@leg.wa.gov
moeller.jim@leg.wa.gov
williams.brendan@leg.wa.gov


Thanks alot.

[jschaud]

[ QUOTE ]
I like that the legislator said this “Most certainly choosing to gamble, or play a game of skill such as poker ..."

He must be a player.

[/ QUOTE ]

I shot an email over. very short, just a thanks and a please continue your support. is this quote not significant? If one state considers poker a game of skill does it not immensely help our cause? I realize that this bill does not immediately help for making it legal, but could it start a carve out?

[NPIII]

There is still no news on whether this bill will get a hearing.

*Please* speak up and contact representative Steve Conway at conway.steve@leg.wa.gov. We still have time to fix this - but we need to put the pressure on!

[TheMathProf]

[ QUOTE ]
There is still no news on whether this bill will get a hearing.

*Please* speak up and contact representative Steve Conway at conway.steve@leg.wa.gov We still have time to fix this - but we need to put the pressure on!

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure that the Strow bill gets a hearing, as I think Conway has some other ideas in mind:

Washington Votes link to 2007 HB1477 (Regulating House-Banked Social Card Games) (http://www.washingtonvotes.com/2007-HB-1477)

This other bill, which has a companion in the State Senate, is sponsored by Conway, who is the chairman of this committee. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[ZPinhead]

Bump