Early Effects of NETeller on All US permitted Sites

[Macbeth]

Thought this was interesting, we will see how the number of players change going forward. Ref Pokersitescout (http://pokersitescout.com)

Early Effects of NETeller Leaving the U.S. Market on All Sites Accepting U.S. players

(Week-over-week comparison, Jan. 19, 2007 vs. Jan. 12, 2007)

Site/Network Ch_peak#pl ... Ch_in_av#pl

PokerStars...........-12.7%....... -11.7%
Full Tilt Poker......-25.4%........ -18.2%
Microgaming Network-7.5%........ -6.2%
UltimateBet.........-12.2%......... -8.4%
Bodog.............. -21.3%.........-18.2%

[Jack Bando]

Stars and Tilt appear to be back to the numbers from Dec 24th, some/most of the lost would appear to be the people who logged a lot of time during winter break going back to work/school.

If the numbers keep going down, then we might have some info.

[NoMeansYes_]

What is %s at Party? Is there any affect? Is the % higher then usual?

[Troll_Inc]

[ QUOTE ]
Thought this was interesting, we will see how the number of players change going forward.

[/ QUOTE ]

What is the exact hypothesis you are testing? What metrics will you look at?

To consider:
Is Party Poker your control or all non-US sites together?
Last year, do you see a drop as January goes on?
Do most months have drops?

This sort of analysis is much more powerful looking forward and testing something than getting data, looking back, picking something out and saying "hey look at this effect".

[okietalker]

This is the middle of the end.

The good news is there will be a new beggining in a few years.

Just MHO

[antistuff]

this could also just be until people have gotten all set up with epassport.

[fatshaft]

Everest up, Party up, they are the big winners over the last week, this is not simply a general drop.

[Webster]

It's the end of the beginning - not the middle of the end.

The bubble has popped and now we will all be playing against otehr good players.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
this could also just be until people have gotten all set up with epassport.

[/ QUOTE ]

some people will come back when new deposit methods are available. many more will just say the hell with it and not come back.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
Everest up, Party up, they are the big winners over the last week, this is not simply a general drop.

[/ QUOTE ]

actually Party was down, Ongame was down, and Ipoker was down. none of these sites take US players - how did the Neteller thing affect them?

[Troll_Inc]

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this could also just be until people have gotten all set up with epassport.

[/ QUOTE ]

some people will come back when new deposit methods are available. many more will just say the hell with it and not come back.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have hope because people still drank after Prohibition was enacted. And plenty of people do hookers, blow and crystal meth even though they are illegal.

[Johny Poker]

I have played mostly at Full Tilt, but also at UB and Bodog. I ran out of $$$ on FT, and will not use epassporte, I am done if they don't come up with good alternatives. If enough people think the same, traffic is gonna drop WAY off, which is what I expect.

[Kneel B4 Zod]

[ QUOTE ]
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this could also just be until people have gotten all set up with epassport.

[/ QUOTE ]

some people will come back when new deposit methods are available. many more will just say the hell with it and not come back.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have hope because people still drank after Prohibition was enacted. And plenty of people do hookers, blow and crystal meth even though they are illegal.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's not an issue of legality, it's an issue of being a gigantic pain in the ass. I mean if EASY deposit methods are made available, then plenty of people will use them, regardless of legal or illegal they are. anyone can get a hooker of craigslist now

[fasteddy1970]

Johny: I hope their are thousands like you because that's what it will take for the big sites to set up their own "banks" and assist us in making deposits and withdrawls. If we do all the scrambling and make it easy on the poker sites, they'll sit back and do nothing to help.

As much as i like my site, pokerstars, I hope their business goes down steadily for the next few weeks as people's acounts dry up and they refuse to deal with Epassport.

[fasteddy1970]

Webster: My feelings exactly. Who are the players most dependent on having to constantly reload their accounts? Losing players, that's who. And when it becomes too much of a hassle, they will get out because for them, this is an expensive hobby anyway so why go through the aggravation. Sure the really addicted fish will find a way but we'll lose a whole lot of other ones and we'll be playing each other. There is absolutely nothing good about these developments and it's only gonna get worse unless sites like pokerstars or full tilt step up and start their own "banks."

[buckaroonick]

Just answer me this... Is online poker illegal in the US?
Or is neteller

[Kneel B4 Zod]

it's not that hard for a company to set up their own payment system. getting that payment system to integrate with your bank will be the hard part.

[Sniper]

Official Tracking thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7666067)

[Macbeth]

Like most of you were elaborating on, the biggest loosers in poker are the ones most affected by complicated deposit procedures. At the same times most pros don't ever need to refill their accounts so we might run into an inbalance between pro vs fish.

On the other hand nothing seems to stop the NET and the evolution of new payment methods might make it easy to transfer money. I think we are in the early stages and that it is impossible to tell so far. We will see if the US-witch-hunt FEDs or the free world wins..

For information of traffic I think pokerscout.com is a great site with graphs and all.

Lastly I just feel compelled to express frustration on how the US law makers seems to target fellow Europeans because it is more politically correct. It is time for EU to fight back and not put up with that crap. The law system in the US is starting to resemble that of a third world country...

[redCashion]

Which sites other than Party have the highest concentration of European players? It seems like those sites might be the best ones for us grinders to move to, since hopefully the European fish keep buying in.

[Troll_Inc]

[ QUOTE ]
Like most of you were elaborating on, the biggest loosers in poker are the ones most affected by complicated deposit procedures. At the same times most pros don't ever need to refill their accounts so we might run into an inbalance between pro vs fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

A "normal" winning player that is trying to move up is probably affected since it makes it more difficult to move money between 3-4 good sites. (How many buyins between sites?)

Tournament players probably have it the worst since they might win big on one site and then have all their money stuck on that one site.

Of course, you can't mention enough that the fewer the fish, the less profitable poker becomes for everyone.

[David]

[ QUOTE ]
Just answer me this... Is online poker illegal in the US?
Or is neteller

[/ QUOTE ]

In theory? No
In practice? Yes