Will all sites close off USA customers???

[scorer]

Where are we headed now with pinnacle and neteller among many other payment providers cutting off usa customers. Will stars and full tilt follow in the footsteps of others. I was very suprised mansion as little as they are with a poker dome in vegas and they closed off the us mareket...

[PropPlayer]

Mansion has not entirely closed off the USA market. They have only stopped taking deposits because of they did not have an effective method to continue to take them.

I am not shocked in the slightest bit about Mansion pulling out:
The guy is worth several billion dollars and does not spend big money on USA advertising. The have a healthy clientele in other locations in the world so perhaps the hassle of doing business in the USA is not worth it to him.

IMO personal opinion all sites will NOT be closing down. There is a huge market and someone is going to want to continue making the money. Some sites will close but there will always be options available.

The best things we can do to support.

#1 Play online poker
#2 Make deposits (no matter how hard this is to do
#3 Have friends to do the same.

We can show the USA government they will not stop us

We can show the sites that keep supporting us with new and creative ways to deposit and fast and speedy cash outs that for as long as they are here offering these service that we will be too.

[DuDot]

They didn't pull out when Party left, why would Stars and FullTilt leave now? Neteller has ties to sports betting, which may be why two of their founders were arrested. I don't think any charge was made against them in respect to online poker.

People have an urge to panic and not look at the facts when things like this happen - resist it.

[scorer]

Im not so sure the governement wont go after pros who promote the site in the USA...example full tilt pros...

[fish2plus2]

[ QUOTE ]
Im not so sure the governement wont go after pros who promote the site in the USA...example full tilt pros...

[/ QUOTE ]

never going to happen because it could cause people to say "FU Gov" and for CNN headlines. The gov would rather just force the banks to do their dirty business, while keeping the citizens ignorant and quiet.

[joeker]

I hope they do....it could be the best thing that happens to us

[ QUOTE ]
Im not so sure the governement wont go after pros who promote the site in the USA...example full tilt pros...

[/ QUOTE ]

[tangled]

[ QUOTE ]
Im not so sure the governement wont go after pros who promote the site in the USA...example full tilt pros...

[/ QUOTE ]
I would like nothing better than for the FBI to arrest Doyle Brunson, slap a full-sized orange jump suit on his gimpy body and make him hobble along on a perp walk without the help of assistive devices, in shackles and handcuffs, looking bewildered and weak.

Online poker would be legal in a week. Somebody once said (maybe Lincoln) that the best way to have an unjust law repealed is to have it enforced zealously.

Get your free "FREE DOYLE" t-shirts here!!!

[Losing all]

Stars exits in the next 72 hours 5-1
10 days 3-1
by Mar 1st 1-1


Stars and FT both serving US players in 6 months 10-1

[Messiahkid]

[ QUOTE ]
Stars exits in the next 72 hours 5-1
10 days 3-1
by Mar 1st 1-1


Stars and FT both serving US players in 6 months 10-1

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this serious?

[Losing all]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Stars exits in the next 72 hours 5-1
10 days 3-1
by Mar 1st 1-1


Stars and FT both serving US players in 6 months 10-1

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this serious?

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously my worthless opinion.

[PartysOver]

how much are you willing to bet?

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
how much are you willing to bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

[Losing all]

[ QUOTE ]
how much are YOU willing to bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

[fasteddy1970]

PartysOver: Could you tell us why you think he's wrong? What we're seeing is a very rapid pull back without the government even having mounted a serious challenge. What happens when the govt gets into second or third gear?

[fasteddy1970]

Prop: Good post but I disagree slightly. Instead of showing the sites that we will surmount any obstacle in order to play I think we should be writing them and strongly advocating that they help us out of this mess by instituting their own funding programs.

They are the ones making millions (I'm talking about pokerstsars in this case) and they're the ones that need to step up not us. I've already written to ps and they claimed that they were working on it. I tend to believe them.

On another note, it will be interesting if in the next few weeks we will see a smaller field of players in the Sunday Million at ps just because a small minority of the players weren't able to quickly fund their accounts.

[EvanJC]

[ QUOTE ]
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how much are YOU willing to bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

i'd take the stars bet i do believe. pm me if you want.

[dtan05]

I'll bet 10k that stars doesn't leave in the next 72 hours - deal?

[Losing all]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll bet 10k that stars doesn't leave in the next 72 hours - deal?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yawn... Make it worth my time (500K+) or GTFO.

[johnnyrocket]

u guys are idiots, it will be back eventually

[scorer]

In the past 10 days we have seen pinnacle sports and neteller stop accepting bets from usa customers and both of these companies were number one in volume in there respective services they offered and it wasn't even close. We have to think the stars and full tilts have taken notice of this and are quyite concerned. In addition there is a massive indictment against 2 people who were the founders of neteller. I think we are on shaky ground with what is going on.

[EvanJC]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll bet 10k that stars doesn't leave in the next 72 hours - deal?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yawn... Make it worth my time (500K+) or GTFO.

[/ QUOTE ]

honestly i think if you seriously want to make this bet (which you obviously don't) that some group of people on this site could come up with the money.

[Tuco]

I bet a friend that Stars would leave the US market by March 1. He gave me 5/3.

Tuco.

I'm afraid all sites will close to US customers within the next 4-8 months. With that said, I think they will eventually come back, licensed and regulated by the US government. However, that could take 3-5 years.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm afraid all sites will close to US customers within the next 4-8 months.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do you think this is true? What will be the catalyst?

[malo]

Right now, it would not surprise me at all to see the current big rooms close.

If that happens, it also would not surprise me to see new poker sites pop up. They will be privately owned, with no ties to pro players, and they will not advertise. Their "advertising" will be word of mouth amongst players. Money may well have to be moved via check/MO/snail mail.

The player bases will be a lot smaller than what we have now, and the stakes may be lower (in terms of games that actually fill). One reason for smaller stakes would be people's concern over sending larger sums of money to less well known and established sites. But anyone looking for a recreational game a few hours a week will probably be able to do so. If you are wanting to grind a smallish bankroll up to a level suitable for B&M play, may still be able to do so online, though at a much slower pace than today.

MTTs will of course still be available at this sites, but wouldn't hazard a guess at field sizes or buyins available. And smaller sites also seem to have trouble generating enough traffic to fill SNGs (or at least the ones over $10 or so.)

But getting enough hours, at enough tables at high enough stakes to make a living may be kaput.

Obviously, all the above just my personal mind meanderings.

[scorer]

Bodog will be quite interesting as they purchased 2 other companies in WWTS/bowmans usa market for the sole purchase of serving usa customers.

[Sniper]

[ QUOTE ]
Right now, it would not surprise me at all to see the current big rooms close.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? What will be the catalyst?

[PartysOver]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Right now, it would not surprise me at all to see the current big rooms close.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? What will be the catalyst?

[/ QUOTE ]

this is why i believe they won't close and why i'd be willing to bet large %'s of my bankroll (barely breaking 10k)

The rooms themselves have no reason to close at this point. Party and 888 closed because they are publicly traded companies and the risk to operate is not worth it for them. Pokerstars and FTP have no risk operating in the US.

Payment processors like neteller closed their doors because the 3rd party who processes the echecks shut down to them. This is solely because they are based in the us and may have some explaining to do with the new regs since they know exactly what's going on with all the echecks they are processing for neteller,etc.

As long as people have money on pokerstars/ftp or can get it on (western union, paper checks, epass) there is no reason to close the doors. I really don't see the sites having any where near the same traffic in a month, but they still will have traffic and for that reason they won't be closing.

I don't think it's something you need to worry about as much as keeping enough money on the site to not go broke/need to redeposit.

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[bumpking]

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Bodog will be quite interesting as they purchased 2 other companies in WWTS/bowmans usa market for the sole purchase of serving usa customers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, have you noticed that Stars is running ads on the WPT shows again? Would they seriously be spending all that marketing money if they were in jeopardy of closing their doors anytime soon?

-BK

[Sniper]

PO, personally, I understand the reasons people think they will not close...

What I am interested in hearing are the reasons why people think the poker sites that are still doing business with the US will stop, and what will be the catalyst for them making that decision?

[Rigel]

I was thinking about this subject and it occurred to me that, if, say Pokerstars decided to pull out of the US market, they would still probably allow those who want to stick around and play on their existing bankroll to do so.

After all, what's the downside for them? The whole issue here is depositing and withdrawing funds, not the whole basic legality issue. Pokerstars decided to thumb their nose at the government over that months ago.

So if you've got a true winning player, he can play on Pokerstars pretty much indefinitely. I've got about $1500 in Pokerstars, which has slowly crept up from a thousand I deposited. I have no problem just keeping that money with Pokerstars- hopefully won't need to deposit or withdraw anytime soon. So why on earth would they chase me away and forego all the rake I will generate?

[Knight Vision]

Stars and FT and others did not pull out when Party did for their own reasons. Those reasons had to have included the eventuality of Neteller cutting off US.

Stars and FT and others might pull out today for all we know, but the happenings of the past week were not unexpected and therefore not the catalyst. They will do whatever they planned to do from the beginning. Whether it be bail on January 22, bail on Day 270, or never bail.

[whangarei]

[ QUOTE ]
I was thinking about this subject and it occurred to me that, if, say Pokerstars decided to pull out of the US market, they would still probably allow those who want to stick around and play on their existing bankroll to do so.

After all, what's the downside for them? ... So why on earth would they chase me away and forego all the rake I will generate?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you are a winning player, taking money out of the site. The dream scenario for a poker site is for all players to be of roughly equal ability, so that ultimately no one wins and all the money goes to rake. So, keeping players around who don't need to deposit is not in the economic interest of the site. I suppose this may be balanced by the fact that you help start games for the site.

[malo]

[ QUOTE ]
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Right now, it would not surprise me at all to see the current big rooms close.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? What will be the catalyst?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure. Do know that six months ago I never would have believed legislation like UIGEA would have passed.

Guess I am to the point of "never say never."

As I said in the original post---just my musings.