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View Full Version : Firing barrells: turn/flop cbet theory


HoldEmNewby
01-10-2007, 01:47 PM
I'm trying to better understand some of the theory so bare with me:

Givens:
We play an aggressive but tight game. We are known to cbet often, but we have also shown we do so with some degree of discretion. Our holdings are either AK,AQ (neither card is a heart),66,44,33 in this particular hand. However, to our opponent, he knows we are capable of playing a wide range of hands in position.

50NL up against villain who is a tagish SSNL player. Stacks are 90BB-100BB.

villain limps from UTG. everyone folds. you raise to 4BB + 1BB on the button. blinds fold UTG calls.

UTG is tagish but typical of SSNL, he is a bit more passive and a bit more loose than your average TAG. He is familiar with most of the tricks of the trade, but often misplays and misapplies theory. Him limping UTG and calling means a typical hand range of: 88-22,87s-65s,A9s-A2s, AA-KK.

Flop comes A /images/graemlins/spade.gif5 /images/graemlins/heart.gif2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
villain checks, we make a cbet of 3/4 to psb, villain calls.
based on typical hand range assigned to villain and action on the flop he could be floating with an underpair KK,88-66; he could have a set AA,55,22. He could have a flush draw, he could have 2 pair (A5,A2), or a weak Ace A6,A4,A3. He doesn't have a pair and a flush draw as he has learnt to play these hands fast (notice how certain theory is sparingly accepted and incorporated by our SSNL villain)

Turn bricks T /images/graemlins/club.gif
villain checks.

Holdings 1(AK,AQ):
We have top pair.

/images/graemlins/diamond.gif If we bet 3/4 to the pot on the turn villain will be mostly calling or raising us with sets and 2 pair. He will usually fold KK,88-66,44-33; flush draws and weak aces are folding as well.
/images/graemlins/diamond.gif If we bet 1/2 the pot or less: underpairs,flush draws and weak aces will call now. In addition to sets and 2 pairs.
/images/graemlins/diamond.gif We could check behind on the turn:

Villain can be expected to bluff with a busted flush draw a reasonable amount of time if river bricks and we show weakness on the turn. Villain will c/c with some underpairs as well if we show weakness on the turn.

Whats the correct play and why on this turn?

Holdings 2(66,44,33):
We have an underpair
Villain will behave the same way as discussed above. Whats the correct play and why on this turn? How should our approach differ in contrast to when we had holding 1 in the pocket?

onoble
01-10-2007, 01:54 PM
I'm still trying to apply this myself (see my other posts today) but:

How often have we fired a second barrel? This is a key. Also when we have what has it meant to him.

With AK/AQ
If he generally folds I would fire out again on turn 2/3 pot, to prevent him from flush draw.

If he generally calls I think I do some pot control here cause we might be up against something real strong and if we bet and he calls and he fires on river its gonna put us to a tough decision. I'd rather check and prepare to call down most river bets.

Mid PP's
If he folds to barrel 2 often I would fire again.

If he doesn't I am done with this hand.

BukNaked36
01-10-2007, 02:05 PM
Unless I have a reason not to, I'm going with my standard value line:
flop - 3/4 to full pot
turn - 2/3 to 3/4 pot
river - 1/2 to 2/3 pot

In this case I'm probably going 3/4 pot on the turn to make the flush draw pay.

HoldEmNewby
01-10-2007, 02:10 PM
BukNaked36,

You do this with pairs like 66,44,33 as well?