general question about drawing hands with no other outs

[martybonus]

Hi,

I was playing a .05-.10$ NL game (10$ stakes) the other night and I had a couple of situations in which my draws didn't work, thought I'd ask about general approach in these situations.

I don't have exact hand info but will approximate. I'll get one of those converter things if bodog does 'em. too hard to remember the details!

Hand 1:

Me: Raise 5x the BB in MP with with KsQs
1 caller to my right

Flop - 3s Ad 8s
Villain bets 1/3 the pot
I call

Turn - blank
villain bets 1/4 the pot
I call

Turn - blank
Villain bets 1/3 the pot
I fold


Hand 2:

I check as BB with 89 off suit. 3 callers

flop - 10d Js 3d
I check, it checks around, a different villain raises 1/2 the pot. I call, other fold, heads up.

turn - 6(?)
villain bets 1/4 the pot
I call

river - blank
villain bets the pot
I fold


Is calling towards a draw generally a decent idea? or should I maybe have raised the turn or even the flop? I know I coulda stacked these guys if I hit my draw as there wasn't anything else on the board...what do you all think?

[holyfield5]

i dont think you could have stacked them if you hit your draw but i wasnt at the tables.

hand 2 dont call all those bets OOP with a OESD especially the low one, if you had KQ there then ok(or if playing better players).

hand 1 is fine, if he checks to you on the river, bet out about 2/3 pot so you get some added value to the draw there.

[martybonus]

thanks much. i think i have alot to learn about no limit. much, much more difficult than limit (assuming micro stakes in either case) for me.

betting river if he checks also lets me know if he was on a drawing hand and missed, too?

[ispiked]

When you're on draws you have to look at the pot odds you're getting when you call. If the percentage that you'll make the straight or flush is around or above the percentage of the bet to the total pot, then you should call.

This is assuming that you think you'll need a straight or flush to win the hand. If you're on a flush draw with Ah Kh and the flop is 10h 3h Ks then you should most definitely call since you have a ton of outs; e.g. your pot odds are pretty big.

[Esmerelda]

I have no problem with either hand. Villains are giving you good odds to call.

I like the 2nd hand a lot, st8's get paid, if a non diamond 7 hits then you have the nuts and it looks like villain likes his hand a bit.

You can raise that FD in hand one on the flop or turn once in a while cuz villain looks a little nervous about his hand to me. This is pretty villain dependent, a lot of them will go down with the ship holding their A2o clutched to the breast.

[CaptVimes]

Grunch

I don't really have a problem with how you played either hand.

Hand 1 you don't have the nut flush draw and villian likely has Ax, maybe of /images/graemlins/spade.gif's, he's giving great odds to draw out with his weak bets and folding on the river is standard.

Hand 2 is fine also. If you hit I think you have to careful if the card is a diamond or a Q. I Probably just call down with those if its a non diamond 7 I raise.

With my experience at Bodog at NL10 there are a lot people that call bets on draws when you don't give them the correct odds (pot sized bets on the flop for example) and that let you draw out cheap and payoff at least a raise on the end when you hit. 1/4 pot bets on the turn gives you 5 to 1, good enough to call without even considering implied odds.

[Phytopath]

Yeah both hands are fine IMO, there is not much point semi-bluffing them, since your opponents probably wont fold.

You'll learn that straights are alot better than flushes, just because you get them paid off soo much more often.