Folding TPGK to shortstack? What?

[Oranzith]

Was this too nitty? I feel I was affected by a hand just a second ago on another table - lost 50bb to a shortstack set with TPTK. I figured that with 1 left to act, an overbet and only TPGK that pushing here (only real option I presume) is -EV
Full Tilt Poker
$0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
5 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
BB: $4
Hero (UTG): $10.15
MP: $8.65
CO: $5.70
BTN: $5.15

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($0.15, 5 players)
MP calls $0.10, <font color="red">CO raises to $0.30</font>, BTN calls $0.30, BB folds, Hero calls $0.20, MP calls $0.20

<font color="black">Flop:</font> 7http://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif Qhttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($1.25, 4 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, <font color="red">CO bets $2</font>, BTN folds, Hero folds, MP folds
Uncalled bet of $2 returned to CO

<font color="black">Turn:</font> 7http://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif Qhttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif [] ($1.25, 1 players)
No action

<font color="black">River:</font> 7http://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif Qhttp://legopoker.com/hh/images/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif [] ($1.25, 1 players)
No action

[freedom18]

im sorry but what were you trying to hit on the flop with this kind of hand? nut flush? (lal) sarcasm aside do you get my point?

either call raise the turn or raise the flop, u kinda need to know where you are, if you dont feel comfortable in these positions you shouldtn be cc raises with KQo

[Esmerelda]

Yeah, I dunno I probably fold. Looks like AQ, QJs or air to me but Q10, Qxs, sets, PP's, OESD are all in the mix. What is he raising pf with?

When I think about it actually calling could be slightly better than raising since he probably folds some weaker hands to your push but makes a play with them if you call. I don't think he plays a draw this way? So you aren't giving much up especially with an overcard of your own.

[Oranzith]

[ QUOTE ]
im sorry but what were you trying to hit on the flop with this kind of hand? nut flush? (lal) sarcasm aside do you get my point?

either call raise the turn or raise the flop, u kinda need to know where you are, if you dont feel comfortable in these positions you shouldtn be cc raises with KQo

[/ QUOTE ]

the shorty just overbet the pot quite seriously, and if I call and the next player moves AI I am screwed. this is either push or fold, calling and raising the turn doesnt look optimal IMO

lastly, i definitely do not 'need to know where i am' - that is the last reason to raise IMO

[Marshall28]

the fact that you folded this is laughable.

[Esmerelda]

Yeah, didn't see MP behind you in the text. Now all is clear. That definitely makes fold a bit more attractive and calling a bit less.

I didn't see the combo draws before. To me that makes raising really unattractive because if either of them have a draw they will be getting good odds to call espcially the guy behind you.

Fold seems to be it. Certainly I am not looking to get ai with this hand and villain is forcing it that way. Tough spot.

[Marshall28]

so let me get this straight ... you are looking to get away from this hand because you are afraid of getting it all in with the best hand, and having villain draw out? LOLLLLLLL.

you raise here for value. he has less than 3 bucks behind and there are only a few plausible hands that are beating you.

the fact that he is a short stack in the first place should give you reason enough to doubt that he has any kind of real hand.

[AKQJ10]

The action behind is a good thing to consider, but you can't assume the third player to act likes his hand. If you were looking for a reason to justify a fold, that would be the best one, though.

The overbet is somewhat weird, but without any history of what that means for this player I'd guess it's a diamond or straight draw. Maybe even as mentioned a big combo draw. You certainly can't conclude it's AQ or QJ by the bet size, although those are plausible. (I think the overbet is particularly good for AQ or QJ here because it will probably get called and needs to extract value from draws.)

You really can't fold this until the deeper stack represents a hand. I think you have to raise the flop to 5, enough to cover the short stack, and take it from there. Even if the player behind calls, you're probably best and need to bet the turn. Only a flop raise by the bigger stack makes me think about dumping this.

[keikiwai]

pf action is garbled

you were UTG 5 handed and OPEN LIMPED KQo?

that is horrible

you should probably pfr KQo utg 5 handed (or pitch it)... open limping it will put you in very awkward spots post flop

[Sir Winalot]

Don't open limp in 6-max. I 50/50-raise/fold this preflop. If you're folding on this flop to a shortstack then there's no point in even calling this preflop. As played, I'd shove flop.

[SnappyJoe]

I fold this 99/100 utg at 6 max.

[keikiwai]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold this 99/100 utg at 6 max.

[/ QUOTE ]

the game has 5 players not 6

5 is just about where it can go either way

[Oranzith]

wow. you guys are brazen. i get stacked consistently with moves like this. maybe I am seeing the other side of a high variance move.

i was in this hand w/ KQo to try and win a small pot unless i hit the flop really hard. i only have 1 pair. id rather call down a 3/4-1 PSB but an overbet? i didnt get in this hand with the intention of felting a non TPTK hand

oh well next time i push.

[electricace]

it definitly comes down to a raise or fold...calling isnt an option. to me the overbet looks like weakness (without knowing his table image). i would raise.