KK against decent player at nl50

[kaz2107]

k villian is decent playing like 23 17 2.5 over like 150 hands. i had 3 bet him preflop like 3 or 4 times this sesh but nothing had been to showdown in those hands so i dont have a great read but he had never put in another raise preflop till now. wut range do u give him preflop and if and where do u find a fold?



PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($105.95)
Hero ($76.45)
SB ($21.80)
BB ($50)
UTG ($38.80)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls $0.50, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $2.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $8</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $15</font>, Hero calls $7.

Flop: ($31.25) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP bets $16</font>, Hero calls $16.

Turn: ($63.25) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP bets $18.5</font>, Hero calls $18.50.

River: ($100.25) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP bets $27</font>, Hero calls $26.95 (All-In).

Final Pot: $154.20

[cobb0716]

His 3bet to me tells me he's probably got AA-JJ, AK - the narrow range is due to the fact that you say he hasn't repopped at all this session.

To me, the second barrel on the turn rules out an AK c-bet on the flop, and probably JJ. To me this looks like AA-QQ at this point and I might be able to find a fold here.

Why not 4-bet it all in preflop?

rc

[Acein8ter]

Looks like the villian wants to get as much money in PF as possible with his 3 bet. Would he do this w/AQs? And play TPTK like that? Put him on AA.

[barryc83]

I just push pf here. He likes his hand, we're not folding KK pf and he could be getting frustrated by your 3betting him a few times.

After the flop you really beat nothing except AK and would he fire 3 barrels w/ AK? Most 50nlers won't, especially a tagish player like this. I don't think AQ plays like this either unless he's super frustrated.

[kaz2107]

[ QUOTE ]
His 3bet to me tells me he's probably got AA-JJ, AK - the narrow range is due to the fact that you say he hasn't repopped at all this session.

To me, the second barrel on the turn rules out an AK c-bet on the flop, and probably JJ. To me this looks like AA-QQ at this point and I might be able to find a fold here.

Why not 4-bet it all in preflop?

rc

[/ QUOTE ]

i didnt shove preflop bcuz i was thinking that he might b able to get away from JJ or QQ possibly and was worried im only getting called by hands that i am behind.

[kaz2107]

[ QUOTE ]
I just push pf here. He likes his hand, we're not folding KK pf and he could be getting frustrated by your 3betting him a few times.

After the flop you really beat nothing except AK and would he fire 3 barrels w/ AK? Most 50nlers won't, especially a tagish player like this. I don't think AQ plays like this either unless he's super frustrated.

[/ QUOTE ]
this is wut i was thinkin the whole time which is why i asked WHERE do u find a fold. which street r u dumping here? the turn?

[Numfar]

[ QUOTE ]
this is wut i was thinkin the whole time which is why i asked WHERE do u find a fold. which street r u dumping here? the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]
You have to fold the flop. You are behind his range as soon as the Q hits - unless you think he can definitely have AKo here (which I don't). After that there is nowhere to fold.

I've had a very similar hand before where I just knew that the villain only had QQ+ PF and I had KK. The Q hit the flop and, well, I got stacked too. It's hard to fold KK there and I'm not sure if I could actually do it but I think it's the right decision if you have a decent read on the Villain.

BTW, I push PF. After his near min 4-bet I can't see him folding. He likes his hand and since I put him on QQ+, pot odds say I should push.

[thac]

[ QUOTE ]
I just push pf here. He likes his hand, we're not folding KK pf and he could be getting frustrated by your 3betting him a few times.

[/ QUOTE ]

You realize you're 150 bbs deep right? Shoving here allows AK and QQ-JJ to fold, and AA an easy big pot. If he's getting sick of you playing back at him, I could see him playing preflop like this with a bigger range than normal (Probably add in TT and AQ), but he wouldn't fire 3 barrels since the pot is so big on the turn compared to what we have left, so there's no reason to bluff really.

It's really hard to play KK on a Q high flop in a reraised pot because you only beat AK now. Check/folding is way too weak here, but I don't see him firing a turn bet with JJ. It looks like he's trying to bait you with such a small bet with QQ or AA, all of his small bets look exactly like it. I think folding turn is +EV even though it is such a small bet. You don't beat anything but a bluff.

[Marshall28]

this is what i love about most players at 50nl .. .they are so scared to lose more than a buy in ... if i am like 2 buy ins deep w/ someone, i just bet bet bet into them ... they arent calling me without the nuts.

you really should just shove your KK after his 4bet. if u have been 3betting him a lot, hes going to be 4betting u w/ a larger range, i guarantee it.

the only reason to call preflop is if you want to get tricky and trap him. (you should face the fact that if he has AA you arent getting away from the hand anyways)

however ... as previously stated, w/ KK on a Q high flop in a reraised pot, if you dont take it down w/ a bet on the flop you are beat like 99% of the time.

so ... shove pf... if u wanna get tricky ... bet this flop if he checks to u, but if he leads just get away.

i tried to get tricky earlier today and fell into the same situation, had to give it up on the flop.

[barryc83]

Fold turn here. You can't even beat QQ now and he's very very unlikely to fire 2 barrels in a RR pot w/ AK.

To me, this hand really depends on just how frustrated/tilted this guy is by you 3betting him pf a decent bit. I was reading the SSNL FAQ the other day and there was a post in there by whitelime (I believe) where he talks about pushing pf w/ a premium hand when you know your opponent to be frustrated. I've started to use this idea and it works. Oh yea, and I won't fold KK pf for even 150 bb.

[4_2_it]

Push pre-flop. Same result. Less angst.