QJs line check

[BobAllinSki]

Villain in the hand was around 24/16/2 and seemed decent, I didnt really like calling the flop because the table seemed generaly fishy and this was the one guy at the table who seemed ok but I think my hand is still strong enough to tangle with a decent player in position.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $75.75
UTG+1: $51.75
CO: $49.25
Hero: $145.90
SB: $69.15
BB: $87.05

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $2</font>, CO folds, Hero calls, 2 folds.

Flop: 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($4.75, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets $3</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $9</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $21</font>, Hero calls.

I raise to start building a pot in case I hit, prehaps take the pot down now if villain has nothing and also for the luxury of a free card. Villains min 3 bet is weird, there is little point in raising it though as I hope he has a hand

Turn: 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($46.75, 2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Hmmmm, checking this is very strange after his turn line, I was tempted to push here but decide to take the free card, his line seems like either a very weak or very strong hand, but he could just be shutting down with a hand like JJ

River: 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($46.75, 2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Now I think hes got a weak hand but I'v kind of painted myself as drawing and T8 is the only real hit I can represent, I know checking here is giving the pot away but villain could easily make quiet a loose call given the action so far

Results:
Final pot: $46.75


So, whats everyone's verdict, who takes a 3 card on the turn and who pushes it, does anyone find a shove on the river?

In hindsight I think I should have bet the turn, a huge part of his range isnt going to pay me off if I hit but is still a favourite but will fold to a raise.

[Speedlimits]

[ QUOTE ]
Villain in the hand was around 24/16/2 and seemed decent, I didnt really like calling the flop because the table seemed generaly fishy and this was the one guy at the table who seemed ok but I think my hand is still strong enough to tangle with a decent player in position.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $75.75
UTG+1: $51.75
CO: $49.25
Hero: $145.90
SB: $69.15
BB: $87.05

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif J/images/graemlins/spade.gif
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $2</font>, CO folds, Hero calls, 2 folds.

Flop: 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($4.75, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets $3</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $9</font>, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $21</font>, Hero calls.

I raise to start building a pot in case I hit, prehaps take the pot down now if villain has nothing and also for the luxury of a free card. Villains min 3 bet is weird, there is little point in raising it though as I hope he has a hand

Turn: 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($46.75, 2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Hmmmm, checking this is very strange after his turn line, I was tempted to push here but decide to take the free card, his line seems like either a very weak or very strong hand, but he could just be shutting down with a hand like JJ

River: 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($46.75, 2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Now I think hes got a weak hand but I'v kind of painted myself as drawing and T8 is the only real hit I can represent, I know checking here is giving the pot away but villain could easily make quiet a loose call given the action so far

Results:
Final pot: $46.75


So, whats everyone's verdict, who takes a 3 card on the turn and who pushes it, does anyone find a shove on the river?

In hindsight I think I should have bet the turn, a huge part of his range isnt going to pay me off if I hit but is still a favourite but will fold to a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just call flop. You don't want to be building the pot without a made hand.

[BobAllinSki]

Flop line is fairly standard, you have fold equity and with 22 in the pot on the turn its going to be a lot easier to stack a villain if you hit and you are also likely to get the option to take a free card while if you miss and face a pot'ish sized bet you will have to pass this spot.

it wether or not to push the turn that I think is the main decision here.

[Rev. Good Will]

I fold to the flop 3bet. We are behind, and we need to stack villian a very high percentage of the time if we hit.

I also don't think 4 betting AI will have enough FE to be good here either, but if I had to continue, I would choose that over calling

[silly_monkey]

I like taking the free card on the turn, and just giving it up on the river. I really don't think that villain is going to fold to our shove on the turn as the pot is now $48 and he's only got about $29 behind.

I don't mind folding to the flop 3-bet. We might have implied odds to hit our flush, but we might not. Since we expect the rest of his stack to go in on the turn, where we won't be able to call with a flush draw, I don't mind dumping this on the flop.

Also, I think an argument can be made for calling, folding, or 3-betting preflop here. I don't call very often with this hand as you usually flop a second best hand or a draw. I don't think you give much up by dumping this against a TAG.

[silly_monkey]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold to the flop 3bet. We are behind, and we need to stack villian a very high percentage of the time if we hit.

I also don't think 4 betting AI will have enough FE to be good here either, but if I had to continue, I would choose that over calling

[/ QUOTE ]

I was basically trying to say what he said.

[BobAllinSki]

[ QUOTE ]
I like taking the free card on the turn, and just giving it up on the river. I really don't think that villain is going to fold to our shove on the turn as the pot is now $48 and he's only got about $29 behind.

I don't mind folding to the flop 3-bet. We might have implied odds to hit our flush, but we might not. Since we expect the rest of his stack to go in on the turn, where we won't be able to call with a flush draw, I don't mind dumping this on the flop.

Also, I think an argument can be made for calling, folding, or 3-betting preflop here. I don't call very often with this hand as you usually flop a second best hand or a draw. I don't think you give much up by dumping this against a TAG.

[/ QUOTE ]

It looks like the hand converter screwed up, his flop 3 bet was a min raise to 18 so it was 9 to call and there was 31 odd left to play, I would never fold in this spot.

Even if it was a raise of 13 to 22 leaving just 27 behind I'd be hard pushed to fold getting roughly 3-1 direct odds, your 4.2-1 to hit it on the next card so you dont need to get paid that often to justify a call, plus you will sometimes get a free card and any 8, T or K gives us some form of straight draw to allow us to continue on the turn occasionaly.

Much larger on the flop and I think we would have a fold, but even to 22 I think a call is correct. But if it had been to 22 then I aggree a push will work much less often on the turn than when it was the weird min bet line.

Has anyone got any other good links to hand converters that work on full tilt? I've had problems with this one before and its a pain to have to check them each time.