Flop trips in a 3b pot

[ajmargarine]

Villian is unknown at this time. And I think this is the first time I've 3b at this table. Why should I bet this flop? Are there any good reasons to not bet this flop?

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $264.30
UTG+1: $268.70
Hero: $213
Button: $206
SB: $102.80
BB: $237

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif A/images/graemlins/heart.gif
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $8</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $24</font>, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif J/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($51, 2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero...

[GAL]

I bet here because the flop is the only place your going to make any money on this hand, even if Villan bluff leads the turn hes shutting down when you call him. The only time I would check behind here would be if I had any PP except JJ.

[snowbank]

bet. checking here is worse than terrible

[4_2_it]

Hmm. AA isn't going anywhere. The question is, will QQ call a flop bet. A check isn't horrible because you can still get it AI by potting the turn and river.

[thedustbustr]

yes but potting turn and river probably isn't the best strategy, because his range weighted towards hands that will fold to heavy aggression. half pot on every street is more likely to get the money in than full pot on two streets. additionally, we might not even want to bet that much- if he calls one bet with 88+ and folds to future bets, and needs the case king or AA to stack off entirely, we would be better off by extracting vs 88-QQ by betting flop, checking turn, betting river (because he will feel more compelled to snap off a river bluff with 88 after the turn checks through, as he knows the final price of showdown).

just saying ram and jam isn't always the best strategy when his range is mostly scared hands.

[ValarMorghulis]

Hard to make any money on this hand. I check to give villain a chance to bluff. If he doesn't then hopefully a bet on the turn looks weak.

[FoldEqu1ty]

[ QUOTE ]
EXTREMELY Hard to make any money on this hand. I check to give villain a chance to bluff. If he doesn't then hopefully a bet on the turn looks weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree - making money on this flop is like extracting blood out of a stone. I'm checking behind on both the flop and the turn, and making a small 1/3~1/2 pot "steal" on the river.

[True]

check the flop,

if he is very loose maybe bet etc, but I would also check something very weak here, villain knows this and would bet into me etc.

[True]

You can get people to believe that you have nothing and get them to bluff with nothing : He held 55

Cryptologic
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $2/$5
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $127.50
UTG+1: $227.34
CO: $502
Button: $777.50
Hero: $1101
BB: $576.75

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/heart.gif
3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $15</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $60</font>, BB folds, Button calls.

Flop: T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/spade.gif 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($125, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($125, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets $85</font>, Hero calls.

River: 9/images/graemlins/club.gif ($295, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets $225</font>, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: $745

[FoldEqu1ty]

[ QUOTE ]
You can get people to believe that you have nothing and get them to bluff with nothing : He held 55

[/ QUOTE ]

EXACTLY. Presuming we're ahead, we can only bet 'for value' if there is less value in checking to induce bluffs. I really think that a term like "Bluff Equity" should be part of standard poker terminology.

[thedustbustr]

true, the exact same floats and poor bluffs can happen if you bet the flop and check the turn, also. the idiot bluffing syndrome that the hand you posted suggests is not at all exclusive to that line.

[Dan Bitel]

tdb,

55 never calls that flop in true's hand

AJ,

seems like a standard check. We're not getting AI here, its that simple, so I don't know why ppl are so concerned with doing so

[Praetor]

id often check here unless I thought the guy would playback at me more likely on flop than later streets

[MatthewRyan]

vs a total donk I'll check behind here. Vs a regular TAG or LAG (read: aggressive player) I bet here 100% of the time

[ajmargarine]

[ QUOTE ]
true, the exact same floats and poor bluffs can happen if you bet the flop and check the turn, also. the idiot bluffing syndrome that the hand you posted suggests is not at all exclusive to that line.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dust,

My thought was given the nasty texture of this flop, it's very difficult for him to continue on the flop without Kx, AA or JJ. (True's flop texture is different and he is kinda repping a scared QQ.) By checking flop, we open the door for him to continue with a hand like 99. By betting, I think we just slam the door on getting any value from most of his range.

Check flop, bet turn (the opposite of what you are saying) to me looks alot better at getting a bet out of 99/TT or something like that; and it also opens the door for him to lead the turn.

--aj

[True]

[ QUOTE ]
vs a total donk I'll check behind here. Vs a regular TAG or LAG (read: aggressive player) I bet here 100% of the time

[/ QUOTE ]

i would rather bet vs a bad player and check vs a good

[dd323]

[ QUOTE ]
vs a regular TAG or LAG (read: aggressive player) I'll check behind here. Vs a total donk I bet here 100% of the time

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[Go_Blue88]

betting is def best.

[MasterLJ]

I take True's line a lot and it works a lot.