NL200 | Standard?

[Grunch]

Opponent is not well known to me, but I think he lives on the outskirts of Standard TAGville.

Full Tilt Poker
$1/$2 No Limit Hold'em Ring Game
6 Players
LegoPoker Hand Converter (http://www.legopoker.com/hh)

<font color="black">Stack Sizes</font>
Hero (CO): $205
BTN: $232.50
SB: $250
BB: $202
UTG: $251.65
MP: $207.30

<font color="black">Preflop:</font> A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($3, 6 players)
UTG folds, MP folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $8</font>, BTN folds, SB folds, BB calls $6

<font color="black">Flop:</font> 3/images/graemlins/club.gif T/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($17, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $17</font>, <font color="red">BB raises to $40</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises all in to $197</font>...

Edit: 'Standard' was a question, not a statement. Feel free to chime in.

[Jay Riall]

Eugh, what are you value betting vs here?

[Grunch]

[ QUOTE ]
Eugh, what are you value betting vs here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Draws.

[kongo_totte]

I call and fold if he leads turn properly. I like folding flop alot better than shoving.

[Keyser.]

Most unknown TAGs don't really play draws this fast OOP. You're gonna get the money in vs. 88 and 33 all the time here.

[Jay Riall]

I doubt many draws call you here, and if they do they are proabably going to be coinflipping with you. Why didn't you just call?

[Claunchy]

Draws don't usually raise that small.

I think this is usually either a set, some mid PP, or air. I'd call the raise and see what happens on the turn probably.

[David1234]

any more in terms of reads, i mean, i really only like this push if hes a married to TP kinda guy, or if he'll just play retarded and call with any garbage. Its really up to the read

[Grunch]

[ QUOTE ]
I doubt many draws call you here, and if they do they are proabably going to be coinflipping with you. Why didn't you just call?

[/ QUOTE ]

I felt like both calling and folding were losing plays here. Folding because I probably have the best hand, calling because I'm almost never going to be able to see the river if I just call.

[sanfranfreako]

Let's say HERO calls, does he then fold to a good sized bet on the turn? Why call? Aren't you just being taxed when you knokw if you're going to get betted against on any street (river too) ur gonna fold.

/Noob needs some help :]

[Claunchy]

Assuming no horrible cards come, my standard play would be to call turn, fold river. These kind of hands depend on reads/image/situation/etc, so there's not really a one-size-fits-all line.

However, shoving because the hand is hard to play if we call is not a valid reason (not saying that's what Grunch is saying).

[The Velour Fog]

this really depends on how the table is playing, your image etc. if the circumstances are right i do this too. against a relatively unknown it can be spewy though..

[Grunch]

[ QUOTE ]
Assuming no horrible cards come, my standard play would be to call turn, fold river. These kind of hands depend on reads/image/situation/etc, so there's not really a one-size-fits-all line.

However, shoving because the hand is hard to play if we call is not a valid reason (not saying that's what Grunch is saying).

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, I didn't mean it would be difficult to play if I just called.

[orange]

I don't understand this play.

Are you value betting vs. worse hands? I don't see too many worse hands calling.

Are you hoping to fold better hands? Given PF action, I doubt he has a big pair, and if he does, trying to shove people off overpairs at this level is ick. He never folds 2p/sets here.

Yeah, you might have the best hand here sometimes. I still think that the correct play is to fold though. If villan starts doing this at a higher frequency, I might see a shove here...but only in situations where players are calling super light and the action is heavy would I consider shoving here.

[thedustbustr]

this is a very circumstantial play.

[AE6]

[ QUOTE ]
Most unknown TAGs don't really play draws this fast OOP. You're gonna get the money in vs. 88 and 33 all the time here.

[/ QUOTE ]
I feel like a good TAG is b/3betting his draws on this flop anyway. I agree that hero is never ever getting called by a hand that doesn't crush him.

[deaders]

Calling then calling the turn is correct sometimes. yes its circumstantial.

[gimmetheloot]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I doubt many draws call you here, and if they do they are proabably going to be coinflipping with you. Why didn't you just call?

[/ QUOTE ]

I felt like both calling and folding were losing plays here. Folding because I probably have the best hand, calling because I'm almost never going to be able to see the river if I just call.

[/ QUOTE ]

????