2 Basic Semibluffables

[ajmargarine]

H1

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
5 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $99.50
CO: $144.60
Hero: $245.75
SB: $116.95
BB: $245

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $4</font>, CO calls, Hero calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($16.5, 4 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets $12</font>, CO folds, Hero...

H2

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $77.50
MP: $145.90
CO: $107
Hero: $155.15
SB: $88.25
BB: $112.45

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP raises to $4</font>, CO folds, Hero calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($12.5, 3 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">MP bets $11</font>, Hero...

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Flop raise amount if you raise. And if you raise, turn plan if called and turn bricks. Note stacks. If you don't raise why not? Comments on both hands welcome, plan and reasoning/theory.

[Abramovic]

Hand 1 make it 30. Check turn is brick.

Hand 2 Id be more inclined to call, but would probably make it 30, and move in on a brick turn (not A,K,Q)

[mlane]

yea, pretty much same here.

[Slap My Jack]

Hand 1: Felt it. Sick equity. Play it like a set. Don't checked turns that brick, that's so sick nitty. Overpairs are a dog on the flop, a coinflip on the turn. Just get all the money in.

Played this way regardless of villain.

Hand 2: Play might change depending on villain and image. Raising is okay, calling is okay.

[ajmargarine]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1 make it 30. Check turn is brick.

Hand 2 Id be more inclined to call, but would probably make it 30, and move in on a brick turn (not A,K,Q)

[/ QUOTE ]

At first glance, I think you have it the wrong way around, unless you can convince me otherwise. We should be more apt to be pushing a blank turn in H1 IMO, I think.

[carrotsnake]

aj- just a small point. Board 1 is so drawy, that if villian calls a raise on that board, and turn is a blank, he should not be folding to a push. That wouldn't make sense. On the other hand, hand 2 isn't THAT drawy, so a shove should be more believable

[Speedlimits]

[ QUOTE ]
H1

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
5 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $99.50
CO: $144.60
Hero: $245.75
SB: $116.95
BB: $245

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $4</font>, CO calls, Hero calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($16.5, 4 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets $12</font>, CO folds, Hero...

H2

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $77.50
MP: $145.90
CO: $107
Hero: $155.15
SB: $88.25
BB: $112.45

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP raises to $4</font>, CO folds, Hero calls, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($12.5, 3 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">MP bets $11</font>, Hero...

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Flop raise amount if you raise. And if you raise, turn plan if called and turn bricks. Note stacks. If you don't raise why not? Comments on both hands welcome, plan and reasoning/theory.

[/ QUOTE ]

Call flop for both. Most likely raise all in on turn as a semi bluff.

[carrotsnake]

speedlimit, why are you wasting your equity on the flop ? Any particular reason? Doesn't make sense to wait for when you have less equity.

[orange]

hand 1- find some way to get it in, probably check turn w. 0 FE.

hand 2- $40 so you can potstick yourself, call a raise obv. uhhh evaluate w. position if turn bricks and villan checks, though my guess is that he would often shove to a raise on the flop.

[Speedlimits]

[ QUOTE ]
speedlimit, why are you wasting your equity on the flop ? Any particular reason? Doesn't make sense to wait for when you have less equity.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I have more equity on the turn actually.

[carrotsnake]

more fold equity, but you lose real equity ...

[Speedlimits]

[ QUOTE ]
more fold equity, but you lose real equity ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok? FE is more important to me than real equity when I'm on a draw.

[carrotsnake]

That makes no sense when you have draws such as these though. Both on the flop have more equity in the pot than an overpair. So I'm just confused mathematically why you want to wait. Any like specific reason or just something you generally do ?

[Speedlimits]

[ QUOTE ]
That makes no sense when you have draws such as these though. Both on the flop have more equity in the pot than an overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villians range is much wider than just an overpair.

[NoahSD]

PSA: "Get it in somehow" or "felt it" are not lines.

[Slap My Jack]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That makes no sense when you have draws such as these though. Both on the flop have more equity in the pot than an overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villians range is much wider than just an overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

You make no sense. Stop.

[Jigsaws]

Hand 1: I raise.

I hate a raise to $30, though. An overpair would be correct to call for that amount. If we shove, make our hand look like a draw, it's $84 to call, and the pot will be $128, so less than 2 to 1. Villain would be making an FTOP mistake if he calls. We also fold out higher flush draws and pair+straight draws if BB has them.

[ QUOTE ]
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=2293758
pokenum -h 7s 6s - ah ad -- 8s 6h 9s
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 9s 8s 6h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
7s 6s 640 64.65 332 33.54 18 1.82 0.656
Ad Ah 332 33.54 640 64.65 18 1.82 0.344

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 2: if villain can be firing with air here, I think I just call and try to get showdown. I might shove turn as a bluff if he fires again. It looks awfully strong.

[Speedlimits]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That makes no sense when you have draws such as these though. Both on the flop have more equity in the pot than an overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villians range is much wider than just an overpair.

[/ QUOTE ]

You make no sense. Stop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok "felt it." Your lines are so insightful.

[Speedlimits]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1: I raise.

I hate a raise to $30, though. An overpair would be correct to call for that amount. If we shove, make our hand look like a draw, it's $84 to call, and the pot will be $128, so less than 2 to 1. Villain would be making an FTOP mistake if he calls. We also fold out higher flush draws and pair+straight draws if BB has them.

[ QUOTE ]
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=2293758
pokenum -h 7s 6s - ah ad -- 8s 6h 9s
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 9s 8s 6h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
7s 6s 640 64.65 332 33.54 18 1.82 0.656
Ad Ah 332 33.54 640 64.65 18 1.82 0.344

[/ QUOTE ]

Hand 2: if villain can be firing with air here, I think I just call and try to get showdown. I might shove turn as a bluff if he fires again. It looks awfully strong.

[/ QUOTE ]

+1

[Slap My Jack]

Noah: [ QUOTE ]
PSA: "Get it in somehow" or "felt it" are not lines.

[/ QUOTE ]


Me: "Hand 1: Felt it. Sick equity. Play it like a set. Don't checked turns that brick, that's so sick nitty. Overpairs are a dog on the flop, a coinflip on the turn. Just get all the money in."

I didn't just say "felt it," did I? Play it like a set, that is very aggressively, particularly if you had a set (even a straight or two pair) on a drawy board like this. Try to get all the money in on the turn.

Some people might think play it like a set means a minraise on the flop, weak suckbet on the turn, and then bombing the river once 20 draws got there, but I like to think otherwise.

[thedustbustr]

you may not want to make him fold in hand 1, he may be making a greater mistake by calling. if you get to a turn and dont improve, then yes, you want him to fold so i'd be far more likely to bomb it there than on the flop. i would raise the flop an amount that he will call, which probably means 3/4 pot raise, maybe pot. someone said play it like a set on the flop - that sounds about right.

hand 2 never raise unless he is a huge nit. just call. for you to semibluff the turn, you gotta know that you can fold him off an overpair, otherwise just call the turn again.

[Slap My Jack]

[ QUOTE ]


Ok "felt it." Your lines are so insightful.

[/ QUOTE ]

Expert play taking two words out of my response and claiming that I said nothing. Seriously, stop.

All hands have math involved.

Hand 1 you are drawing, but you are drawing with 60%+ equity. That means you currently have the best hand.

Other times you have the made hand and have the 60%+ equity. You could still view it as a drawing situation, as you drawing to every card that does not help other players still in the hand.

If you have pocket aces in the first hand, you have to dodge half the deck to win the hand. You have about as much equity on this flop with pocket aces as you do with a flush draw.

[Speedlimits]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Ok "felt it." Your lines are so insightful.

[/ QUOTE ]

Expert play taking two words out of my response and claiming that I said nothing. Seriously, stop.

All hands have math involved.

Hand 1 you are drawing, but you are drawing with 60%+ equity. That means you currently have the best hand.

Other times you have the made hand and have the 60%+ equity. You could still view it as a drawing situation, as you drawing to every card that does not help other players still in the hand.

If you have pocket aces in the first hand, you have to dodge half the deck to win the hand. You have about as much equity on this flop with pocket aces as you do with a flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying your line isn't positive EV I'm saying calling and re-evaluating is more EV.

[Jigsaws]

[ QUOTE ]
you may not want to make him fold in hand 1, he may be making a greater mistake by calling. if you get to a turn and dont improve, then yes, you want him to fold so i'd be far more likely to bomb it there than on the flop. i would raise the flop an amount that he will call, which probably means 3/4 pot raise, maybe pot. someone said play it like a set on the flop - that sounds about right.

[/ QUOTE ]
He won't be making a mistake if he calls a pot-sized raise, since he'll be getting 2:1, which is about his equity. You can only let him make a mistake by betting more than the pot.

[Slap My Jack]

[ QUOTE ]


I'm not saying your line isn't positive EV I'm saying calling and re-evaluating is more EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

How is it?