(NL50) ZOMG! Min-raise! Noooooo!!!

[Wolfram]

Villain likes to c-bet. I've been thinking about incorporating min-raises into my game. Anybody like?


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($41.30)
Hero ($66.70)
UTG ($44.80)
MP ($30.65)
Button ($59.80)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to $2</font>, Hero calls $1.50.

Flop: ($4) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $2.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $5</font>, SB calls $2.50.

Turn: ($14) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($14) J/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $7</font>, SB calls $7.

Final Pot: $28

[Shaddux]

I probably just make a normal raise

[Wolfram]

[ QUOTE ]
I probably just make a normal raise

[/ QUOTE ]
What advantages does a normal raise have in this case?

With a min-raise I:
a) Buy a "free card" on the turn.
b) Increase the value of the pot since I probably have better equity than villain (given that he either has A-high or a smaller PP), while still inticing him to call with any of the hands I beat.
c) Still have room to push with some FE if it gets reraised.
d) Mix up my game so i'm not as predictable.

Or am I just nuts.

[barryc83]

You're just nuts. The reason that you play draws aggressively is bc you have FE. You want opponent to fold so you win w/o having to hit your draw. Make it $10 on flop. Check behind on turn and value bet river. No body folds to the minraise.

[Fallen00]

dont minraise, god kills 10 kittens everytime you do it.

either call his bet, or raise like a man. minraises accomplishes nothing really.
a) he has nothing and would check turn anyway if you called his cbet.
b) reraising his cbet hard would probably get him to fold, or youd know sooner that you are beat. therefor saving money on the river bet.
c) if you get reraised on that flop, you are beat very often.. and even if you'll hit your flush, he probably as much outs as you do on the river.. thus you have mext to no FE if he raises your minraise.

[Check_The_Nuts]

so your making a move based on fold equity, but your giving great odds to call? Pretty much correct?

[Shaddux]

[ QUOTE ]
With a min-raise I:
a) Buy a "free card" on the turn.
b) Increase the value of the pot since I probably have better equity than villain (given that he either has A-high or a smaller PP), while still inticing him to call with any of the hands I beat.
c) Still have room to push with some FE if it gets reraised.
d) Mix up my game so i'm not as predictable.

[/ QUOTE ]

a) Our implied odds usually make this relatively unimportant IMO
b) i.e., bloating the pot?
c) you have almost no FE if you are reraised
d) There are better ways to mix up your play

Although I disagree with the minraise, you provided some interesting ideas to think about.

[Wolfram]

[ QUOTE ]
so your making a move based on fold equity, but your giving great odds to call? Pretty much correct?

[/ QUOTE ]
I said that if I min-raise and he reraises I still have room to push with some FE. If I pot-size reraise then he'll be the one pushing and then I'll have no FE. It's probably not that good of an idea though because opponent will be pot committed.

[Wolfram]

[ QUOTE ]
You want opponent to fold so you win w/o having to hit your draw.

[/ QUOTE ]
We don't win money in poker by constantly folding out hands. We win it by inducing our opponent to make a mistake. If villain is holding a pocket pair less than tens then he's making a mistake in calling our raise, and therefore we want him to call. We don't want to push him off. If he however has a bigger pocket pair, he's probably pushing if we reraise big.

And finally, please open your minds a little. If you don't like the min-raise in this case, explain why like Shaddux did. Min-raising is usually awful play. I'm just trying to figure out if we can find a useful application for it.

[ QUOTE ]
b) i.e., bloating the pot?

[/ QUOTE ]
What's wrong with bloating a pot if you have the largest equity in it (i.e. 2 overs + FD).

[emon87]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I probably just make a normal raise

[/ QUOTE ]
What advantages does a normal raise have in this case?

With a min-raise I:
a) Buy a "free card" on the turn.
b) Increase the value of the pot since I probably have better equity than villain (given that he either has A-high or a smaller PP), while still inticing him to call with any of the hands I beat.
c) Still have room to push with some FE if it gets reraised.
d) Mix up my game so i'm not as predictable.

Or am I just nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

a) sure, so does a normal raise.
b) meh
c) no - if he reraises and you push, FE = 0%
d) normal raises mix it up well enough at this level


Also, you have like no FE on the flop minraise.

Minraise is pretty terrible.

[KEW]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
so your making a move based on fold equity, but your giving great odds to call? Pretty much correct?

[/ QUOTE ]
I said that if I min-raise and he reraises I still have room to push with some FE. If I pot-size reraise then he'll be the one pushing and then I'll have no FE. It's probably not that good of an idea though because opponent will be pot committed.

[/ QUOTE ]

If villain RRs you will have no FE..

The reason I do not like the min Raise is it opens you up to a 3 bet shove that you would have to fold to..If you make a standard raise you will most likely be getting the correct odds to call..Embrace variance then..

[Shaddux]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
b) i.e., bloating the pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

What's wrong with bloating a pot if you have the largest equity in it (i.e. 2 overs + FD).

[/ QUOTE ]
nothing. I was just making sure that's what you meant.

[Sir Winalot]

Yikes, I don't see why a minraise would be better than a proper potsized raise.

[munkey]

The only time to minraise is to scare 2+2ers /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Did you have a read?

[Wolfram]

[ QUOTE ]
The only time to minraise is to scare 2+2ers /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Did you have a read?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, just experimenting.

[higher_energy]

i am sorry but i hate your line ...it looks so weak

if you are raising, raise to at least 6.75 or 7.

next, i think you have to bet out on any turn club adn non-club.

[lsaw2]

[ QUOTE ]
dont minraise, god kills 10 kittens everytime you do it.



[/ QUOTE ]


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