KK on a AAx board

[mack848]

Villain in 30/8/3 - very LAG for this $50 FR game.
Effective stacks $50

Ths game is playing very tight and UTG raises are frequently folded round. I raise all pairs about half the time UTG, incl. AA & KK when there are a couple of aggressive players who are likely to raise limpers. Raising AA & KK UTG results in winning just the blinds about 60% of the time. Please don't tell me that you have to always raise AA & KK UTG. This is nitty full ring and you don't. My decision not to LRR is more debateable IMO.

How's my POST FLOP line here?

Hero limps UTG with KK, 2 folds, Villain raises to $2, Hero calls

Flop AA8r ($4.50, 2 players)

Hero checks, Villain bets $3, Hero calls

Turn AA84 ($10.50)

Hero checks, Villain bets $5, Hero calls

River AA843 ($20.50)

Hero bets $6, Villain raises to $19, Hero folds

[avfletch]

If raising UTG results in winning the blinds 60% of the time I wouldn't start limping my big pairs I'd start raising a lot of other holdings.

At tight/nitty tables I don't believe you should play your big hands slower I believe you should playing your marginal/trash hands faster.

[kerplunkNL]

Why are you donking the river? I think c/c is a better line here IMO.

[mack848]

I do, but no-one is watching. I raise from EP more than pretty much anyone in the game and win a lot of blinds. When I get AA in EP I often think "they must know I raise light and should start playing back at me" - but they aren't watching and simply keep folding. In my experience, limp/calling and letting an aggressive opponent take the initiative is the best way build a pot when specificlly holding AA & KK in EP. Admittedly this is based on PT analysis of only 60k hands and my gut instinct.

I would be interested to hear what $50 and $100 Full Ring players think about this.

[mack848]

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you donking the river? I think c/c is a better line here IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a line I often take (so I am interested to find out whether it is incorrect).

I do it when I fear a bluff from a worse hand that I don't want to call - to minimise the cost of seeing a showdown. My read at the time was that he could take this line with QQ too.

Most aggresive players at this level will never raise without an Ace, but some can bet the river as a bluff - and I would fold to a >1/2 pot bet. I thought a weak Ace, or QQ/JJ would likely call this small bet and that a raise would definately be an Ace.

What bet size would you call on the river if you checked?

[avfletch]

Imo you will almost never see a bluff from a worse hand on this board on the river after he has raised pre and fired two barrels already.

What suits are on the board?

[mack848]

[ QUOTE ]
What suits are on the board?

[/ QUOTE ]

Rainbow

[avfletch]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What suits are on the board?

[/ QUOTE ]

Rainbow

[/ QUOTE ]

Ah yeah, sorry, missed the 'r' in OP.

In which case, what hands do you think would bluff this river?

In villain's eyes you have a weak ace here and are never folding it.

[the_muppeteer]

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you donking the river? I think c/c is a better line here IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, even if villian actually is bluffing that $6 bet into a $20 pot won't stop him, and if he has what he is representing you KNOW you will get raised.

[Jouster777]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why are you donking the river? I think c/c is a better line here IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, even if villian actually is bluffing that $6 bet into a $20 pot won't stop him, and if he has what he is representing you KNOW you will get raised.

[/ QUOTE ]A c/c will likely cost significantly more than $6 on the river. If villain is bluffing he is unlikely to raise. If he has a weak A or 99/TT/JJ/QQ he will call. If he raises we can fold pretty safely absent a read otherwise. Given the flop and turn play I like the river donkbet.

A flop C/R might be cheaper still but is not clearly superior to the line taken IMO.

[donkfish]

From the villain's perspective, you've called a raise preflop OOP and therefore probably have an ace or pocket pair - especially after calling the bet on the flop. I think that the half pot bet on the turn looks like a pot builder than a bet trying to force you out - the rag on the turn is unlikely to change your hand strength and seeing as you called $3 into $7.50 i dont think that many are going to bluffing with a $5 bet into $10.50, giving you 3:1 on your money.

i think that the turn bet is enough for you to know that youre behind a large portion of the time, even if you have seen him make such bluffs previously and think that you are good at least 1 time in 4 you are still OOP and will most likely be facing another big decision on the river.

my view: fold the turn

ps. hi all, new member (1st post) /images/graemlins/smile.gif