50nl 6max AKs with river decision

[meleader2]

villain was ur basic 30/5/2 opponent. thoughts on all streets (well mainly river) appreciated. as per the river, it was a blocking bet. anyone actually fold?




PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($46.35)
Hero ($47.25)
CO ($71)
Button ($17.25)
SB ($41.50)
BB ($8.80)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $2</font>, CO calls $2, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>.

Flop: ($4.75) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $3.25</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $6.5</font>, Hero calls $3.25.

Turn: ($17.75) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO bets $7</font>, Hero calls $7.

River: ($31.75) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $11.5</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $23</font>, Hero ?

[jk1986]

I prefer a check call on the river, it would at least allow a missed draw to bluff at it. As played I call since you've been offered such pretty pot odds, though I expect to see something like a10 here alot.

[ALReturnsLOL]

Nice avatar /images/graemlins/tongue.gif. I designed it.

PF looks good.

Flop. I think you should bet closer to the full pot.

On the turn and river I would check in order to get a cheap showdown. River bet is not good imo

[King Car]

Without a strong read, I think hero has to fold to the river raise.

This is second time in this hand that we have been raised, and the 4s and 6s did little to change the texture of the flop board.

I think AQ/AT are likely and with all the min raising I wouldnt be suprised to see KJ/TT.

[lacrymosa]

make it $4.2 on the flop, check the turn, check call the river. As played I fold to the raise.

[meleader2]

[ QUOTE ]
make it $4.2 on the flop, check the turn, check call the river. As played I fold to the raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

i bet 2/3 pot. i dunno why i didn't do full pot. results are pretty obvious: <font color="white">AQo</font> but ya know, nothing i could do really i guess besides c/c reasonable river.

[Sir Winalot]

Bet closer to pot on the flop, turn c/c is goot. I'd usually fold to bigger turn bets, you're only beating AJ IMO. I think river is a c/f or c/c at most.

[ QUOTE ]
as per the river, it was a blocking bet. anyone actually fold?

[/ QUOTE ]
If you block the river you can't call, do you see why?

[meleader2]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet closer to pot on the flop, turn c/c is goot. I'd usually fold to bigger turn bets, you're only beating AJ IMO. I think river is a c/f or c/c at most.

[ QUOTE ]
as per the river, it was a blocking bet. anyone actually fold?

[/ QUOTE ]
If you block the river you can't call, do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]


yes of course. however, my god, the pot odds are amazing. everyone here says to fold river. in retrospect, i agree, and often give the same advice. how many of you ACTUALLY FOLD during play though? i sincerely doubt you do the majority of the time....it's [censored] 50nl.

[Sir Winalot]

[ QUOTE ]

yes of course. however, my god, the pot odds are amazing. everyone here says to fold river. in retrospect, i agree, and often give the same advice. how many of you ACTUALLY FOLD during play though? i sincerely doubt you do the majority of the time....it's [censored] 50nl.

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, the pot odds are amazing, but there is nothing we beat. Better hands beat us no matter what the level is.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bet closer to pot on the flop, turn c/c is goot. I'd usually fold to bigger turn bets, you're only beating AJ IMO. I think river is a c/f or c/c at most.

[ QUOTE ]
as per the river, it was a blocking bet. anyone actually fold?

[/ QUOTE ]
If you block the river you can't call, do you see why?

[/ QUOTE ]


yes of course. however, my god, the pot odds are amazing. everyone here says to fold river. in retrospect, i agree, and often give the same advice. how many of you ACTUALLY FOLD during play though? i sincerely doubt you do the majority of the time....it's [censored] 50nl.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand. The fact that its 50nl is all the more reason to fold. He's minraising because he wants you to call.

This is a horrible flop for you. This is a small pot hand.

[AceLuby]

Check the flop, all worse aces just caught up (except AJ).

Once you get to the river you should c/c like the turn if you want to show down. Betting inflates the pot and no worse hand is going to call.

[BukNaked36]

You just can't piss away money on the river like this. You're out ~$15 by the turn. The river is what kills you here.

Without a read, you can't be dumping 1/2 a stack on the river when it's obvious you're beat.

Yes I actually do fold this when playing.

[AaronOC]

never ever bet that river with the action on the pervious streets, this is spew

[barryc83]

[ QUOTE ]

Yes I actually do fold this when playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

C/f river.

[meleader2]

[ QUOTE ]
You just can't piss away money on the river like this. You're out ~$15 by the turn. The river is what kills you here.

Without a read, you can't be dumping 1/2 a stack on the river when it's obvious you're beat.

Yes I actually do fold this when playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

i put him on diamonds, and i am aware this is a leak of mine that i'm trying to fix.

i've seen players minraise with draws like this ON THE FLOP holding 87s-KQs, and where a river bet would protect my hand but a check might leave me susceptible to a bluff. while the river minraise screams i'm beat, getting ~4:1 i had to call, it's ingrained in me since reading sklansky's TOP years and years ago and is a classic example of some unlearning i need to work on to get better as a player.

edited for clarity

[AceLuby]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Yes I actually do fold this when playing.

[/ QUOTE ]

C/f river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then the river doesn't matter, are we hoping to hit our 3 outer to take the pot on the turn? If we are c/f the river we need to c/f the turn because we are only 7% to win if we are behind and a K or J will help us (and a K probably won'). If we c/c the turn we HAVE to c/c the river as well. If we are planning on c/f a blank river, c/f the turn.

[barryc83]

I was referring to how the hand was played. I like a turn c/f, because I think you're beat here most of the time. Judging by his stats, he's not a good player, but he's not a huge fish either. He's probably not miniraising with some draw, he has 2pair here a lot. Let it go, you only lost 15bb.

[Marshall28]

[ QUOTE ]


i've seen players minraise with draws like this ON THE FLOP holding 87s-KQs, and where a river bet would protect my hand but a check might leave me susceptible to a bluff. while the river minraise screams i'm beat, getting ~4:1 i had to call, it's ingrained in me since reading sklansky's TOP years and years ago and is a classic example of some unlearning i need to work on to get better as a player.

edited for clarity

[/ QUOTE ]

ummm, actually a bet here leaves u more susceptible to a bluff than a bet. its obvious you are making a blocking bet here w/ a mediocre hand, and almost anything can raise u. a check call actually induces some bluffs from weaker hands and keeps the pot smaller, thus allowing you to see a showdown.

what you did just cost you more money when you are behind and would have folded out some hands that u had beat.

[4_2_it]

Check/call flop. Fold if he fires big on the turn. Your hand is equal to A2 at that point.

As played, if you really think investing more in this pot is a good idea (which it probably isn't) then check calling is way better, especially after his small turn bet.

[meleader2]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


i've seen players minraise with draws like this ON THE FLOP holding 87s-KQs, and where a river bet would protect my hand but a check might leave me susceptible to a bluff. while the river minraise screams i'm beat, getting ~4:1 i had to call, it's ingrained in me since reading sklansky's TOP years and years ago and is a classic example of some unlearning i need to work on to get better as a player.

edited for clarity

[/ QUOTE ]

ummm, actually a bet here leaves u more susceptible to a bluff than a bet. its obvious you are making a blocking bet here w/ a mediocre hand, and almost anything can raise u. a check call actually induces some bluffs from weaker hands and keeps the pot smaller, thus allowing you to see a showdown.

what you did just cost you more money when you are behind and would have folded out some hands that u had beat.

[/ QUOTE ]


"villain was ur basic 30/5/2 opponent"...not a thinking 2p2er, the former of which would bluff pot on the river if he missed a draw...or...50 cents in some cases... if i checked u think he would only bet an amount worth my calling...4:1? or would he bet some amount that i could get away from?

[munkey]

The 4s and 6s on turn were good cards w.r.t flop as many draws missed - check call turn for sure.

I can't fold to that 'weak' turn bet especially with 1 card str8 and 2pair outs to go.

I would check/call (smallish bets) river because I put villan on a draw some of the time(given flop minraise turn 'block'bet).

I think c/fold may be better given 3 streets of betting and a flop minraise on the other hand (villan looks like he likes to see a flop and hit then bet )and given 30$ pot on river, it is going to be ~15$ so there aren't really any 'small' river bets to call.

Villans range is {2pair, str8 or flush draw or pair+draw type of hand,set ..}

I don't put many medicore strength hands in his range that may check behind the river so a block is inadvisable -better let missed draws bluff river and the hands that beat us bet the river. Marshall is right about the river blocking bet.
Read NLHTAP about blocking bets and HU river action its one of the best parts of the book IMHO.