50NL: What does he have here?

[Pudor]

No reads. I wonder what hand(s) you put villain on. Should I have bet the turn?

Party Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.5
9 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $51.25
UTG+1: $4.5
MP1: $46.85
MP2: $48.25
MP3: $36.89
Hero: $52.7
Button: $46.75
SB: $87.85
BB: $48

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif A/images/graemlins/club.gif
4 folds, <font color="#cc0000">MP3 raises to $1.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $5.5</font>, 3 folds, MP3 calls.

Flop: J/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif 10/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($11.75, 2 players)
MP3 checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $7.5</font>, MP3 calls.

Turn: 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($26.75, 2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero checks.

River: K/images/graemlins/heart.gif ($26.75, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">MP3 bets $5</font>, Hero calls.

Results:

[mackan]

hmm..very hard putting him on a specific hand, cos the river bet realy screams blockingbet. but maybe KQ wich by the way is one of the few hands u beat.
I think he would have bet more if he had AQ, JJ, 66, TT.
it all depends on ur read here if u think he would C/C the flop trapping u on turn or if his call on flop was AK or KQ. what did he had?

[homeslice]

Bet $10 on the flop and given his stack size push turn.

[dashman]

With overpairs like this I find flops with J/10's in them the most difficult to play against because sometimes people pair up but most of the time if people are calling a raise/reraise preflop they have face cards and flops with Js/10s just give them straight draws.
I would put villain on AK/AQ/AJ maybe KJ/KQ or a mid PP, just depends on stats of villain.
Yes you should have bet the turn, I know sometimes we wonder if someone is slow playing us, so we will check the turn but I think a turn shove or a bet of $17-21, essentially putting villain AI is standard. This again depends on stats though, I would be interested to know villains general stats.

[Pudor]

[ QUOTE ]
hmm..very hard putting him on a specific hand, cos the river bet realy screams blockingbet. but maybe KQ wich by the way is one of the few hands u beat.
I think he would have bet more if he had AQ, JJ, 66, TT.
it all depends on ur read here if u think he would C/C the flop trapping u on turn or if his call on flop was AK or KQ. what did he had?

[/ QUOTE ]
I'll tell after a few answers. Should I have bet the turn?

[Pudor]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet $10 on the flop and given his stack size push turn.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry for my ignorance, but how does his stacksize influence my decision?
edit: Villain just sat down, so no real reads.

[Unknown Soldier]

AJ/KQ/JJ/TT/QQ

[jively]

[ QUOTE ]
Should I have bet the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]
No, I think you played this fine. You have one pair, and there is no reason for you to get stacked when villian makes a big hand.

-Tom

[Djeorge]

His bet is a blocking so it usualyl means something like KQ or AJ here. You should've pushed turn btw given stack sizes.

[mackan]

bet turn and i would´nt be surprised to see some cracked aces here actualy

[Pudor]

There seems to be no consensus about betting or not betting the turn /images/graemlins/smile.gif, but everyone seems to agree that if I bet, I should push. Is there a hard and fast rule as to when pushing is correct in these sorts of situations?

[Pudor]

The guy had AQ by the way.

[Bring_Me_Down]

Weaky steaky.

U lead it out on turn to ~18-20$ - if he shoves, u call. If he just calls, u put him allin on riv no matter what comes.

[homeslice]

[ QUOTE ]
The guy had AQ by the way.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what happens when you give free cards away...should've pushed the turn....and I'm not being results oriented...

[earck]

I like the way you played it. Although I don't disagree with pushing the turn, I probably would have played it the same way.

[Bring_Me_Down]

[ QUOTE ]
I like the way you played it. Although I don't disagree with pushing the turn, I probably would have played it the same way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell me why u like it. This was v v weak and bad play against smallstack IMO

[earck]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like the way you played it. Although I don't disagree with pushing the turn, I probably would have played it the same way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell me why u like it. This was v v weak and bad play against smallstack IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I am just ignorant here but why does it matter that he has a short stack? The OP asked the same question and no one gave an adequate response.

[homeslice]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like the way you played it. Although I don't disagree with pushing the turn, I probably would have played it the same way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell me why u like it. This was v v weak and bad play against smallstack IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I am just ignorant here but why does it matter that he has a short stack? The OP asked the same question and no one gave an adequate response.

[/ QUOTE ]

"adequate"??? read my responses in this thread, they're adequate.

[Imrahil]

Pot flop and shove turn.

[King Spew]

What does he have here?

JJ, TT, 66, ..... AA-77, AK-AJ, SC down to maybe 56.

I can't check turn here. There is plenty of money in the pot to be had NOW. I'ld ¾ PSB or BIGGER. The bet on the turn will chase all of the draws away..... IMHO, that is what the flop call from villain is all about. Could be QJ, but I doubt you see that call PF. Same with JT. So you are either ahead of a draw or behind a set. Bet the turn to find out.

edit: GAWKKKKKKKKK, AQ!!! Bet DAT TURN!!

[orange]

I think you lost some value here. I would bet the flop almost always and bet/shove the turn. Played a bit too weak IMO...you'll see plenty of hands calling your shove.

[Bring_Me_Down]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like the way you played it. Although I don't disagree with pushing the turn, I probably would have played it the same way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell me why u like it. This was v v weak and bad play against smallstack IMO

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I am just ignorant here but why does it matter that he has a short stack? The OP asked the same question and no one gave an adequate response.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hahhahhaa. If u dont know what matters that he is a shortstack, go home and never come again this forum / any poker tables EVER! FISH!

[jd2b2006]

[ QUOTE ]
Pot flop and shove turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT. Additionally, why do people want to check the turn here???? This is not a WA/WB, pot control situation. Villain calls with so many worse hands, it's a crime not to shove the turn.

[King Spew]

[ QUOTE ]
Hahhahhaa. If u dont know what matters that he is a shortstack, go home and never come again this forum / any poker tables EVER! FISH!

[/ QUOTE ]

Registered 12/24/06
Post count: micro

Come back after you have grown up and enlighten us with what you think the best shortstack strategy might be in this situation. Then we can ridicule you.....

[Bort99]

I don't know about betting the turn, but bet $9 at least on the flop and he won't call with a gutshot.

[jd2b2006]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know about betting the turn, but bet $9 at least on the flop and he won't call with a gutshot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I want villains to call with gutshots. People putting money in with crap odds on crap draws = $$$$ for me.

[Bring_Me_Down]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hahhahhaa. If u dont know what matters that he is a shortstack, go home and never come again this forum / any poker tables EVER! FISH!

[/ QUOTE ]

Registered 12/24/06
Post count: micro

Come back after you have grown up and enlighten us with what you think the best shortstack strategy might be in this situation. Then we can ridicule you.....

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol.

Here we again one who compare ppl by the amount of their posts. I believe so hard u r a pokerGOD!

Gl,

[Pudor]

[ QUOTE ]
Hahhahhaa. If u dont know what matters that he is a shortstack, go home and never come again this forum / any poker tables EVER! FISH!

[/ QUOTE ]

But before I go home and cry, could you please answer?

[SavageMiser]

Take a look at the pot size and the size of Villain's stack. On the turn the pot is $26.75 and Villain has not quite $24 left. Hero covers.

Why does this matter? Given how the hand has played out, Hero is more than likely not ever going to fold this hand. Villain just doesn't have enough money.

All right, I've committed $25 more to this pot, how should I spend it? Bet it now. Shoving seems best to me, but you can bet less, too. Don't give any draws a free card and make second-best hands pay now before a scare card frightens them away. And if you're worried about being beat, you've still got two aces in the deck to suck out with, at the least.

[Pudor]

That's enlightning. Thanks for helping a sucker /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

[TexRef]

My first thought when reading: PUSH the turn!

At least BET it... Don't give him a free card with a hand like KQ

[Marshall28]

possible reasons for checking the turn:

pot control: i suppose u could check the turn for pot control, but my question is gonna be, why do you want to control the pot when you have aces on this board?

inducing a river bluff: yeah i suppose this isn't too bad, but i thought we played to maximize profits .... his river bluff will never be near the size of your raise that he very potentially could call.

reasons for betting the turn:

push out draws: giving a free card to a hand we are ahead of that would call a bet anyways is retarded.... and giving SD's or whatever a free look at the river is pretty much just asking the other guy to stack us.

get value from weaker hands: there are soooooo many weaker hands here that will call you down, especially if you push, which looks like a bluff a lot of the time.

which decision do you think is better?

[munkey]

Can you even pot control by checking the turn in a reraised pot given he has a PSB left?

I would just push turn but think betting turn 2/3 here and putting what's left in on river may get more calls.

[Bring_Me_Down]

Gayish poster:

Im not sucker

Understoooood..? /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Pudor]

Lol, by the sucker I meant myself.