The USA has gone crazy! [Archive] - Two Plus Two Newer Archives

Riddick

02-05-2006, 01:05 PM

For the people who can't see right through Midge's sickening dishonesty, which has become entirely typical of her, here is the quote in its full context (it is actually a quote from St. Augustine, and the article is entitled "New Fed Chairman Has Passion For Equations"):

[ QUOTE ]
A dry humor has helped him navigate dry numbers.

In his 1975 senior honors thesis on energy policy, he opened with a quote from St. Augustine: "The good Christian should be wary of mathematicians and all those who make a practice of sacrilegious predictions, particularly when they speak the truth. Because danger exists that these people, in league with the devil, may becloud the souls of men and enmesh them in the snares of hell."

He went on to use a great variety of squiggly marks.

[/ QUOTE ]

And here is the actual link - Link (http://www.newsday.com/business/investing/wire/sns-ap-bernanke,0,6339072.story?coll=sns-ap-investing-headlines)

Riddick

02-05-2006, 01:14 PM

SmileyEH

02-05-2006, 08:42 PM

My first thought was, haha wow. Then I wanted a reference.

F- OP.

-SmileyEH

MidGe

02-05-2006, 10:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
For the people who can't see right through Midge's sickening dishonesty, which has become entirely typical of her, here is the quote in its full context (it is actually a quote from St. Augustine, and the article is entitled "New Fed Chairman Has Passion For Equations"):

[ QUOTE ]
A dry humor has helped him navigate dry numbers.

In his 1975 senior honors thesis on energy policy, he opened with a quote from St. Augustine: "The good Christian should be wary of mathematicians and all those who make a practice of sacrilegious predictions, particularly when they speak the truth. Because danger exists that these people, in league with the devil, may becloud the souls of men and enmesh them in the snares of hell."

He went on to use a great variety of squiggly marks.

[/ QUOTE ]

And here is the actual link - Link (http://www.newsday.com/business/investing/wire/sns-ap-bernanke,0,6339072.story?coll=sns-ap-investing-headlines)

[/ QUOTE ]

You are quite wrong. The quote was from this article (http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/business.cfm?id=181702006)

I am delighted that I got you to react in such a maniacal fashion. I must really have touched a hot button.

Yet I fail to see in any way, how my OP was dishonest or how any of my posts have been. Must be another one of those theistic mental acrobatics that result in the meaning of a word becoming it's opposite. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

By the way, you are really displaying your skills in statistics with your poll. LOL /images/graemlins/smile.gif I guess that it is just the way theists tend to cook the numbers to support whatever assertions they make when needed.

Riddick

02-05-2006, 11:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I am delighted that I got you to react in such a maniacal fashion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exposing unabashed intellectual dishonesty is maniacal? Most people would be humiliated. You, however, are delighted. Telling.

[ QUOTE ]
Yet I fail to see in any way, how my OP was dishonest or how any of my posts have been. Must be another one of those theistic mental acrobatics that result in the meaning of a word becoming it's opposite.

[/ QUOTE ]

...and so dishonesty begets dishonesty.

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, you are really displaying your skills in statistics with your poll.

[/ QUOTE ]

You really display your ignorance to the matter of statistics by making such an underhanded insult. Statistics is the collection and interpretation of data. As the lopsided data continues to be collected, I shall let the readers interpret it /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[ QUOTE ]
I guess that it is just the way theists tend to cook the numbers to support whatever assertions they make when needed.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it is the way rational people seperate deceptively crafted, dishonest posts such as yours from honest, in-context ones. I have cooked no numbers, but then again, you knew that.

Prodigy54321

02-05-2006, 11:07 PM

that article seems stray from that quote...which is strange to me..it's almost as if it was just thrown in there, but it isn't folowed up by any info relevent to it..and the info on his later life doesn't seem to follow in respect to this quote. Im very curious as to the context of the quote in his thesis...I would bet that it is fairly inconsequential and doesn't reflect his actual nature. Do you by any chance have a link to the source for this article...I can't find it

MidGe

02-05-2006, 11:35 PM

You really are a ranting lunatic. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

You use words like dishonesty and appply it to my orinal post which 1) showed the quote used br bermanke as the opening of of senior thesis in Harvard (Totally factual)
2) stated that it was so (Totally factual)
3) A set of question that put into question the appropriateness of using a quote from St Augustine and that one in particular in an economi thesis (Only questions, No statement of facts, no untruthness)
4) My opinion, and stated as such, about the state of the USA empire (Again totally factual) as examplified by the pernicious and insiduous advances of irrationality, or religion, (they are, for me at least, synonyms) in most domains (in this case the economic one)

Obviously you retort to my second post is again mere ranting which does not address any issue that I raised vis-a-vis my honesty, nor vis-a-vis your own. You link to the article was not the one I quoted from, as the second sentence in the OP clearly demonstrate, thus you were clearly untruthful in your statement regarding the origin of the information. I suspect it was probably due to ignorance rather than malice, altough your tone might make one wonder. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Thirdly, you are absolutely a moran when it comes to statistics and how to set-up a poll. It does remind me of all those polls I have seen executed by theists, notable anti-choices organisations, where the questions are framed in such a way that they will get a biased answer.

As far as the result of the poll, I have no idea, being an honest person I cannot truthfully answer the second part of the poll since it does not include the actual fact as an answer. Not being able to vote, I ca't access the results. Not that it matters. You are really showing your statistical skills here. LOL

Anyway, I am absolutely delighted that I managed to gale you with such strong effect. I thought that my original post was rather innocuous. But your pathetic attempt at justfication has made my day already. I didn't it was going to be that good.

DcifrThs

02-05-2006, 11:36 PM

to OP,

you may think about posters who attacked you in this thread in whatever way you please...but the facts remain.

you posted a quotation implying that ben bernake said it in his senior thesis. you never said it was by st. augustine. AND you LEFT OUT of the original post, the line directly following harvard 1975....i'll reproduce it here:

[ QUOTE ]
The passage, a quote from St Augustine...

[/ QUOTE ]

here is the full 2 paragraphs:

[ QUOTE ]
"THE good Christian should be wary of mathematicians and all those who make a practice of sacrilegious predictions, particularly when they speak the truth. Because danger exists that these people, in league with the devil, may becloud the souls of men and enmesh them in the snares of hell."

Curious as it may seem, this was the introduction to the senior honours thesis that Ben Bernanke, the new chairman of the US Federal Reserve, submitted to his professors at Harvard in 1975. The passage, a quote from St Augustine, may not seem desperately relevant to energy policy, his chosen topic. But it all seems to fit with the quirky reputation that Bernanke has acquired over his subsequent years in various positions of office.

[/ QUOTE ]

the fact you left out the sentance directly following the explanation of the quotation from bernake's senior thesis is academic dishonesty at its finest. you didn't cite the source. you implied (un)intentionally that ben bernake agrees with the quotation and implied that the fact that the new fed chairman wrote the quotation is further evidence in the decline of the american hegemony.

im curious to see how you write papers for school if, in posting on an internet message board, you are unabe or unwilling to use a quotation in conjunction with its initial intentions (of which we are still not sure).

im not hateful. i have nothing against you as a person or as a poster. but i feel that your conduct in this thread is absolutely disgusting. period.

Barron

Prodigy54321

02-05-2006, 11:59 PM

someone got punk'd tonight...I'm not sure of who yet, but definitely someone

guesswest

02-06-2006, 12:06 AM

Can we set aside for the moment the petty rivalries involved here.

What's much more interesting is the nature of that quote. I'd love it if someone could produce the actual thesis, or at least a synopsis of it - I can't find it. The first article linked (riddick) seems to imply it's quoted ironically, the latter (midge, and I guess what her original post referred to) seriously.

I find it hard to believe that an economist of that note would quote something like that without either some greater purpose within his thesis, or ironically. I'm also really surprised the Scotsman wouldn't elaborate on the issue, with the reputation they have for analytical reporting.

DcifrThs

02-06-2006, 12:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Can we set aside for the moment the petty rivalries involved here.

What's much more interesting is the nature of that quote. I'd love it if someone could produce the actual thesis, or at least a synopsis of it - I can't find it. The first article linked (riddick) seems to imply it's quoted ironically, the latter (midge, and I guess what her original post referred to) seriously.

I find it hard to believe that an economist of that note would quote something like that without either some greater purpose within his thesis, or ironically. I'm also really surprised the Scotsman wouldn't elaborate on the issue, with the reputation they have for analytical reporting.

[/ QUOTE ]

it could definately be a humorous intro. the base of the quote is that math/stats works with the devil to cloud the minds of people and maybe send them to hell (im too lazy to go reread it). maybe it was a preamble to a suggestion to improve measurements/analytics in the energy industry in the heat of the oil crisis in the 70s (i dont know dates). it could be a lot of things.

anselm was also responsible for the (i think) first self contained proof of the existence of god circa 400ad. it was either anselm or the next theologist that began with a B.

Barron

MidGe

02-06-2006, 01:04 AM

guesswest,

I agree with your opinion of the Scotsman and it is a good indication of the differences between the choice of journalism quality between Riddick and myself.

The author of the article does tie back up to the quote in the last sentence of the article. He does also use that quote as the intro to a senior honour thesis at Harvard as an indicator of quirkiness. I guess you would undertsand it from a thesis at Notre Dame. lol.

I guess, from my viewpoint, it does show that there may be some problems mixing religion and science, although economics is, of course a soft science. This mixing of religion and science is very observable in USA society at the present time. What do you expect, with an untravelled cowboy, he only ever had been to Mexico before his election, as president who is quoted as echoing the famous Blues Brothers' sentence that he is on a mission from god!!!???

LOL...

bearly

02-06-2006, 01:05 AM

i suppose someone needs to tell you that america is not an empire. alaska and hawaii are states of this union, and so by choice. some (leased) landing rights for our military, in countries round the world, hardly qualifies as an occupation...........b

MidGe

02-06-2006, 01:13 AM

pzhon

02-06-2006, 01:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
"THE good Christian should be wary of mathematicians and all those who make a practice of sacrilegious predictions, particularly when they speak the truth. Because danger exists that these people, in league with the devil, may becloud the souls of men and enmesh them in the snares of hell."

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm a mathematician, and I've used a similar quote from St. Augustine myself, also for humor. See the scijokes mathematics quotes page (http://www.xs4all.nl/~jcdverha/scijokes/1_5.html). The linked page suggests that St. Augustine was referring to numerologists/astrologers, not mathematicians as we know them.

It was absurd for the OP to present the quote so far out of context.

MidGe

02-06-2006, 01:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
It was absurd for the OP to present the quote so far out of context.

[/ QUOTE ]

No more absurd than to begin a Harvard Senior Honour Thesis in Economics with that same quote. No more absurd than have the writer of the Scotsman to use it as an indicator of quirkiness, in the opening of his article.

My, we have some sensitive souls here... LOL I love the brouhaha this has raised.

BCPVP

02-06-2006, 01:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It was absurd for the OP to present the quote so far out of context.

[/ QUOTE ]

No more absurd than to begin a Harvard Senior Honour Thesis in Economics with that same quote. No more absurd than have the writer of the Scotsman to use it as an indicator of quirkiness, in the opening of his article.

My, we have some sensitive souls here... LOL I love the brouhaha this has raised.

[/ QUOTE ]
Something to read up on, MidGe (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=context)

Nut4Dawgs

02-06-2006, 01:44 AM

This just in...

< cue on-scene rookie reporter shivering outside of 2+2 building >

It's been slightly more than 12 hours since the polls opened and it seems a definite consensus is being reached. Late filers, absentee ballots and downstate votes are slowly being tallied, Mitch, but a dramatic shift in the trend is unlikely.

< cue studio talking head >

Thanks, Bobby Joe, for that report.

< turning to camera left >

It also seems we still have unanswered questions, asked earlier of the OP. Is he/she ducking the issues? Hmmmmm, could this have had a bearing on the election? Stay tuned for later updates.

And now, a word from our sponsors.

pzhon

02-06-2006, 01:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It was absurd for the OP to present the quote so far out of context.

[/ QUOTE ]

No more absurd than to begin a Harvard Senior Honour Thesis in Economics with that same quote.

[/ QUOTE ]
That quote, given in context, is amusing. The use of such quotes for comic relief is common in serious writing. Your out-of-context quote was dishonest, and lowers your credibility. Don't pretend not to see the difference.

[ QUOTE ]
LOL I love the brouhaha this has raised.

[/ QUOTE ]
Of course you do. You were trolling, abusing our trust in you. I will ignore you henceforth.

MidGe

02-06-2006, 01:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It was absurd for the OP to present the quote so far out of context.

[/ QUOTE ]

No more absurd than to begin a Harvard Senior Honour Thesis in Economics with that same quote. No more absurd than have the writer of the Scotsman to use it as an indicator of quirkiness, in the opening of his article.

My, we have some sensitive souls here... LOL I love the brouhaha this has raised.

[/ QUOTE ]
Something to read up on, MidGe (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=context)

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't be so patronising. I probably am a much better linguinst than you, but even if not so, sufficient of one to be very clear about the meaning of context. I stand by my OP and those that follows. It seems that super supersensitives and insecure readers, took the post out of context, which made it more interesting anyway. Always good to see the bigots coming out in droves. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

BCPVP

02-06-2006, 01:54 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Don't be so patronising.

[/ QUOTE ]
Then stop being a dick about this.

[ QUOTE ]
I stand by my OP and those that follows. It seems that super supersensitives and insecure readers, took the post out of context, which made it more interesting anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hmm, just about everyone else in here seems to believe you were being very dishonest with your OP. I can understand being mistaken based on an article that fails to include context, but now that you've been informed that the quote was meant humorously, you should accept that you're wrong.

[ QUOTE ]
Always good to see the bigots coming out in droves.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ah, when all else fails, call the other guys bigots. Classy.

MidGe

02-06-2006, 02:08 AM

BCPVP and others,

I honestly think you guys are off the planet or on some substance. To me, and to Iain Dey, the writer of my original source, it seems obviously quirky to use, not neccesarily an Augustine quote, but one of such fundamental religious import, to introduce a Thesis in Economics. If you guys don't see that, well hey it's probably due the lack of humour or pomposity inherent in the culture. I do go further than Iain, however, and say that it is unhealthy to mix domain such as economics and religion.

Now, if Bernanke use it an humorous way (which I agree cannot be determined by the article), then I can only come to the conclusion that the irony was either addressed to the body of is thesis, which would show a lack of confidence, or to the saying of Augustine, which would be equally understandable if in a diffrent context. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I can live with either.

As for calling people names, you better re-read the thread and notice where the name calling and accusations started.

DcifrThs

02-06-2006, 02:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
BCPVP and others,

I honestly think you guys are off the planet or on some substance. To me, and to Iain Dey, the writer of my original source, it seems obviously quirky to use, not neccesarily an Augustine quote, but one of such fundamental religious import, to introduce a Thesis in Economics. If you guys don't see that, well hey it's probably due the lack of humour or pomposity inherent in the culture.

[/ QUOTE ]

im sorry but i did not call you one name this whole time. most didn't. few did and thats poor taste. but not nearly as poor taste as what you have shown in this thread. im now understanding more the motivation to make this post. but the motivation you purport to have acted upon and the presentation technique you used in the original post are not consistent. you thought it was humorous that ben bernake, new fomc ruler supreme, used a religious quotation from anselm to introduce his thesis. you also thought it was funny WHICH quotation, in particular, ben bernake chose.

my question to you is this: if your intention was to discuss the humor here, why disguise the quotation as if ben bernake himself wrote it?? why not simply say "ben bernake used a quotation from anselm in his introduction to his 1975 harvard thesis in economics. don't you think thats funny??"

no. you didn't do that. instead you used a quotation, CUT and UNCITED from another publication OUT OF CONTEXT (you claim to understand context but your actions speak quite definitively and contrary to this point) to rile up readers and IMPLIED as a result of your presentation that the quotation "from the thesis" is further evidence of the decline of the american hegemony.

this is so clearly abuse that its amazing you still stand by your original post's presentation, contents, and context. for this, i think your actions and conduct in this thread are disgusting to say the least.

[ QUOTE ]

I do go further than Iain, however, and say that it is unhealthy to mix domain such as economics and religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok then:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/bb/1in_god_we_trust.jpg/350px-1in_god_we_trust.jpg

[ QUOTE ]

Now, if Bernanke use it an humorous way (which I agree cannot be determined by the article), then I can only come to the conclusion that the irony was either addressed to the body of is thesis, which would show a lack of confidence, or to the saying of Augustine, which would be equally understandable if in a diffrent context. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I can live with either.

[/ QUOTE ]

again, so why not state that in the original post and cite that the quotation was NOT MADE BY BEN BERNAKE???

[ QUOTE ]

As for calling people names, you better re-read the thread and notice where the name calling and accusations started.

[/ QUOTE ]

i still have not called you names. just showing you how attrocious i think your conduct has been in this instance.

-Barron

MidGe

02-06-2006, 03:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
BCPVP and others,

I honestly think you guys are off the planet or on some substance. To me, and to Iain Dey, the writer of my original source, it seems obviously quirky to use, not neccesarily an Augustine quote, but one of such fundamental religious import, to introduce a Thesis in Economics. If you guys don't see that, well hey it's probably due the lack of humour or pomposity inherent in the culture.

[/ QUOTE ]

im sorry but i did not call you one name this whole time. most didn't. few did and thats poor taste. but not nearly as poor taste as what you have shown in this thread. im now understanding more the motivation to make this post. but the motivation you purport to have acted upon and the presentation technique you used in the original post are not consistent. you thought it was humorous that ben bernake, new fomc ruler supreme, used a religious quotation from anselm to introduce his thesis. you also thought it was funny WHICH quotation, in particular, ben bernake chose.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, not funny!... quirky, odd, bizarre, strange and in fact, unhealthy.

[ QUOTE ]

my question to you is this: if your intention was to discuss the humor here, why disguise the quotation as if ben bernake himself wrote it?? why not simply say "ben bernake used a quotation from anselm in his introduction to his 1975 harvard thesis in economics. don't you think thats funny??"

no. you didn't do that. instead you used a quotation, CUT and UNCITED from another publication OUT OF CONTEXT (you claim to understand context but your actions speak quite definitively and contrary to this point) to rile up readers and IMPLIED as a result of your presentation that the quotation "from the thesis" is further evidence of the decline of the american hegemony.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, we are definitely not communicating here. This is very intersting thing. It could be a cultural gap.

[ QUOTE ]

this is so clearly abuse that its amazing you still stand by your original post's presentation, contents, and context. for this, i think your actions and conduct in this thread are disgusting to say the least.

[ QUOTE ]

I do go further than Iain, however, and say that it is unhealthy to mix domain such as economics and religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok then:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/bb/1in_god_we_trust.jpg/350px-1in_god_we_trust.jpg

[/ QUOTE ]

That, I have always found absolutely bizarre and nearly an oxymoron. I mean the contraposition of the quote with the medium on which it sits. I have always wondered if the original designer was being ironic here. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Now, if Bernanke use it an humorous way (which I agree cannot be determined by the article), then I can only come to the conclusion that the irony was either addressed to the body of is thesis, which would show a lack of confidence, or to the saying of Augustine, which would be equally understandable if in a diffrent context. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I can live with either.

[/ QUOTE ]

again, so why not state that in the original post and cite that the quotation was NOT MADE BY BEN BERNAKE???

[/ QUOTE ]

I did not see the need since it was Beranke that cited it and he offered no denials!

If I said something out of Mein Kampf, I won't be able to do much if you say that I did say those words. The fact that it in turn was a quotation has nothing the do with the intended context.
[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

As for calling people names, you better re-read the thread and notice where the name calling and accusations started.

[/ QUOTE ]

i still have not called you names. just showing you how attrocious i think your conduct has been in this instance.

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for not calling me names, altough it would be like water off a duck's back.

I am sorry I really feel I am talking another language. I am speaking english! Are you speaking american? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

bobman0330

02-06-2006, 11:10 AM

So I guess witty writing and correct citations are frowned upon at Perth University or whatever passes for an institute of higher education down there?

timotheeeee

02-06-2006, 11:36 AM

Guys, check out what MidGe said.

[ QUOTE ]
THE good Christian should be wary of mathematicians and all those who make a practice of sacrilegious predictions, particularly when they speak the truth. Because danger exists that these people, in league with the devil, may becloud the souls of men and enmesh them in the snares of hell.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a direct quote, posted by MidGe. Obviously, this foreshadows the fall of Australia.

DcifrThs

02-06-2006, 11:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Guys, check out what MidGe said.

[ QUOTE ]
THE good Christian should be wary of mathematicians and all those who make a practice of sacrilegious predictions, particularly when they speak the truth. Because danger exists that these people, in league with the devil, may becloud the souls of men and enmesh them in the snares of hell.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a direct quote, posted by MidGe. Obviously, this foreshadows the fall of Australia.

[/ QUOTE ]

vnh. im surprised nobody did this before you.

one thing though...i thought the only direction australia could go from here is up???

Barron

madnak

02-06-2006, 12:13 PM

Australia has no taxes on gambling winnings, last I heard. Plus they have kangaroos.

DcifrThs

02-06-2006, 12:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Australia has no taxes on gambling winnings, last I heard. Plus they have kangaroos.

[/ QUOTE ]

ive been there...but i was too young to gamble. and it was a jopke.

Barron

timotheeeee

02-06-2006, 12:18 PM

Nah, it could fall down into Antarctica's pliant bosom. I don't know what that means.

And to MidGe. Now, I don't mean any disrespect at all. I'm neither a right-wing jingo nor a religious zealot. I'm a godless, morally relativist kind-of-a-liberal that disapproves of intellectual dishonesty as much as the next guy. Your original post, given the fact that you cribbed it from an article that did not supply context, was not intellectually dishonest, but it was misleading. It was misleading precisely because after reading it I came to one conclusion, but after Riddick furnished the proper context I came to a radically different conclusion. Your subsequent attempts at whitewashing yourself and mealy-mouthed defences do smack of intellectual dishonesty.

You'd be doing yourself a great favor if you put up your tattered white flag and apologized to all. Like I said, no disrespect, but it's time to come clean.

guesswest

02-06-2006, 12:22 PM

I don't think any of us are in a position to say with any certainty that Midge's OP was dishonest, since we can't know her mindset and intention in presenting it. What we can say, is that at the very least, failing to clearly and accurately identify the author of the quote is sloppy writing - if you'd at least acknowledge that Midge they'd possibly get off your back.

protoverus

02-06-2006, 01:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I probably am a much better linguinst than you, but even if not so, sufficient of one to be very clear about the meaning of context. I stand by my OP and those that follows.

[/ QUOTE ]

LMAO. Yeah, you're a better 'linguinst'. Nice grammar in those two sentences. That's exactly what I would expect from a great 'linguinst.' I'm convinced.

Matt R.

02-06-2006, 02:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Guys, check out what MidGe said.

[ QUOTE ]
THE good Christian should be wary of mathematicians and all those who make a practice of sacrilegious predictions, particularly when they speak the truth. Because danger exists that these people, in league with the devil, may becloud the souls of men and enmesh them in the snares of hell.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a direct quote, posted by MidGe. Obviously, this foreshadows the fall of Australia.

[/ QUOTE ]

That made me laugh, thank you. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

FlFishOn

02-06-2006, 03:26 PM

"Honestly I think the USA displays all symptoms of a collapsing empire. "

We're not going down without a fight. Half this country is well armed. How 'bout you? Boomerang? Sharp stick? G'luck to ya, mate.

NinjaMan

02-06-2006, 03:56 PM

BCPVP

02-06-2006, 04:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Honestly I think the USA displays all symptoms of a collapsing empire. "

We're not going down without a fight. Half this country is well armed. How 'bout you? Boomerang? Sharp stick? G'luck to ya, mate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kangaroos can box.

[/ QUOTE ]
Kickbox! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Nice one timotheeee!

bearly

02-06-2006, 09:37 PM

good...........use quotes........try really hard.........also, gore vidal is a novelist (primarily).......whatever the case, not an historian..................b

bearly

02-06-2006, 09:46 PM

good linguist?.......poor writer.........."my op and those that follows"????op's that follow in this thread??? "bigots coming out in droves"??? highly unlikely you know what "bigot" means, and it's proper usage, also, has anyone seen any droves???.....................b

bearly

02-06-2006, 09:53 PM

possibly..............in america we might say you were speaking "snake oil".........don't worry, everyone hear knows what that means..............b

bearly

02-06-2006, 09:56 PM

oh please.....the dog ate my homework............b

tyrus72

02-06-2006, 10:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i suppose someone needs to tell you that america is not an empire. alaska and hawaii are states of this union, and so by choice. some (leased) landing rights for our military, in countries round the world, hardly qualifies as an occupation...........b

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to play more on this subject ...

Why isn't America an empire based on the common definition? Much of its territory was won in conflicts of conquest to some degree. And it has been on an ever-increasing expansion of influence and is clearly the dominant political and cultural force throughout its sphere of influence, and is ruled by a sovereign (albeit elected). So, what makes the Roman Empire an "empire" but not America?

I don't want a response that I'm anti-American or the like. Please just defend this statement on its own merit, not any perceived bias I may or may not have: "America is not an empire."

gumpzilla

02-07-2006, 12:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]

I said something out of Mein Kampf

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I did say those words.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Always good to see the bigots coming out in droves.

[/ QUOTE ]

MidGe, I wouldn't have pegged you as a Nazi sympathizer. How strange.

Marko Schmarko

02-07-2006, 12:50 AM

Gump: I think you took those quotes out of context.
-mark

MidGe

02-07-2006, 01:04 AM

[ QUOTE ]
"Honestly I think the USA displays all symptoms of a collapsing empire. "

We're not going down without a fight. Half this country is well armed. How 'bout you? Boomerang? Sharp stick? G'luck to ya, mate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes I know the statistics too. It seems that you will end up with no one left, shooting each other like you do. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

MidGe

02-07-2006, 01:12 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I said something out of Mein Kampf

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I did say those words.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Always good to see the bigots coming out in droves.

[/ QUOTE ]

MidGe, I wouldn't have pegged you as a Nazi sympathizer. How strange.

[/ QUOTE ]

And the above is truly a mis-quote. Go and read the above post again.

Talk about honesty (the pot calling the kettle black.. LOL).

My original post was not a misquote. In fact, I still find myself unable to see why not mentionning the fact of Augustine being quoted makes any difference at all. It would not matter who had uttered those words first.

I think what galed most was my comment about the american empire. And that is very much my opinion. Keep it running guys. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

For your information no, I am not a nazi sympathiser at all, I find the left much more appealing.

bearly

02-07-2006, 01:15 AM

oh boy, 1) what is 'your' common definition? 2)what types of conflicts don't have as their primary aim 'conquest' (i assume you mean armed conflicts)3)influence, in or out of their sphere is what major, generally economic, powers strive to obtain, and increase.4) there are various forms of power (for example:a sea of oil) that will gain that influence.5) elected/sovereign...in a constitutional democracy...you have turned your weak but sincere effort into a howler. 6)please repeat cognative dissonance 10 times and get some rest. 7) no, i don't think you are an anti-american, and if you were you would not be very dangerous............b

gumpzilla

02-07-2006, 01:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
black people . . . LOL

[/ QUOTE ]

Now you're just digging yourself deeper, my friend. I think you've blown this whole thing way out of proportion.

MidGe

02-07-2006, 01:28 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
black people . . . LOL

[/ QUOTE ]

Now you're just digging yourself deeper, my friend. I think you've blown this whole thing way out of proportion.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can see by your humour that you do understand the difference between my OP and a mis-, or deceptive, or malicious quote. Very good example. Thanks.

Riddick

02-07-2006, 01:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Keep it running guys.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, let us keep that empty vacuum that used to be your integrity afloat so that we may continue to use it as our own virtual punching bag.

Anyone check the poll numbers recently?

RJT

02-07-2006, 04:04 AM

Midge,

Have you ever heard of the literary term called irony? The context of the quote in the speech and the source of the quote (St. Augustine) are extremely relevant.

Since you are so fond of quotes here is one for you. I would post the source, but it seems the quote is attributed to a few different individuals:

"It is better to remain silent and be though a fool, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt!"

I am joking with my quote. But, you are wrong about it not making any difference that you did not cite the source of the quote and its context in the thesis.

RJT

RJT

02-07-2006, 04:10 AM

Oh, and by the way:

[ QUOTE ]
My opinion, and stated as such, about the state of the USA empire (Again totally factual)…

[/ QUOTE ]

Opinions can’t be facts. They can be based on facts, though.

RJT

Tony_P

02-07-2006, 06:21 AM

"My original post was not a misquote. In fact, I still find myself unable to see why not mentionning the fact of Augustine being quoted makes any difference at all. It would not matter who had uttered those words first."

By your posts in this thread I can only assume that you are 16 or 17 years old, and the only thing left to tell you is that you will understand when you're older what an ignorant fool you look like here.,

"I think what galed most was my comment about the american empire. And that is very much my opinion. Keep it running guys."

No. You're opinion on America, while more suited for the politcs forum than this one, is not why people are ragging on you. It is obvious though, that you were looking for a way to disparage America somehow, and instead of finding a rational argument you choose to use an out-of-context quote.

MidGe

02-07-2006, 06:38 AM

Hiya RJT,

For the fourth time I re-read the article I quoted from, written by, I presume an anglo saxon, from both his name and the georgraphical source of the newspaper (the Scotsman). Now it is apparent the the author of ther article found the quote choice "curious". I intentionally left that sntince in. I think the term is too gracious, but it is nevertheless very clear that it is not the fact the quote is from Augustines but the words in the quote that make it so. So at least a scotsman, and a journalist from a very good reputation newspaper (beats USA today's hands down) sees it as I do. In fact, if you bother to read the whole article the one I quoted from, not the one inaccuratley attributed as my source, by and early responder, the last sentence attributes the words to Bermanke, thereby illustrating the fact that the semantic value of the quote was of import, not the author.

You may, of course see it differently. And yes, I am familiar with irony I did even mention it in an earlier post on this thread in questionning the motives of the designer of US currency to put the motto "In God We Trust" on the notes. /images/graemlins/smile.gif So, I understand. If we see it diffrently, it seems that americans or US anglo spoken, should I say, see it differently from other anglo-saxons. That was my reference earlier to a cultural gap. Maybe reading foreign newspaper may help US citizens in breaking their insularity. /images/graemlins/smile.gif
But lets assume that it is an ironical use of the quote to humour you. What then is the irony directed at, the rest of his thesis, or Augustines. Either way doesn't make much sense, the formner as why would you start your thesis by deriding it, the latter why would you start a Senior Honours Economic Thesis by making fun of Augustines???

I maintain, you guys have it all wrong, but too obstinate to admit it, or there is a different agenda in play (which I can't quite fathom yet).

Gosh, this could become more controversial than certain cartoons at the top of the news recently.

I am thoroughly enjoying it and am looking forward to discover what the cause of this ruckus is, if I ever do.

madnak

02-07-2006, 06:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
why would you start your thesis by deriding it

[/ QUOTE ]

It's tongue-in-cheek. Witty self-deprecation. He used many mathematical formulae in his thesis, and he felt that it might be good to dampen the effect of that. It also gave the essay a vigorous opening and showed his professors that he didn't take himself too seriously.

I'm no fan of religion, but this definitely looks rhetorical to me.

MidGe

02-07-2006, 06:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why would you start your thesis by deriding it

[/ QUOTE ]

It's tongue-in-cheek. Witty self-deprecation. He used many mathematical formulae in his thesis, and he felt that it might be good to dampen the effect of that. It also gave the essay a vigorous opening and showed his professors that he didn't take himself too seriously.

I'm no fan of religion, but this definitely looks rhetorical to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could be... maybe so. I honestly can't say.. doesn't make it less bizarre. Maybe that's an american way, deride yourself first. May be that's the cultural gap! Surely not the way I would start a thesis, or anything important where I had to advance my point. Can't see that attitude in US politics or diplomacy though, maybe it is restricted to academia in the US?

In any case I don't see how the attribution to Augustine is relevant in the tongue-in-cheek. As the scotsman said.. curious. I simply say a bit more than curious, bizarre!

madnak

02-07-2006, 07:07 AM

As a rule, I don't pay attention to politicians. But it's very common in American literature, and even on this forum. I hope you don't take self-deprecatory remarks made on 2+2 seriously?

MidGe

02-07-2006, 07:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
As a rule, I don't pay attention to politicians. But it's very common in American literature, and even on this forum. I hope you don't take self-deprecatory remarks made on 2+2 seriously?

[/ QUOTE ]

I wish I could have the same attitude towards polititians you have, it is just that I find them too influential in my life and usually negatively so.

As regarding self-deprecatory remarks on 2+2, I guess you were being ironical and not saying those demand the same standard. There would be an abysmal failure rate of 2+2 posters I am afraid. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Also altough sometimes interesting of themselves, often remarkable as a social studies, the 2+2 forum posts are somewhat trivial in their consequences compared to a Senior Honour Theses.

By the way I am a great fan of the literature coming out of the US. It seems the social climate breeds iconoclasts. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

madnak

02-07-2006, 07:50 AM

Yes, I think freedom and individuality are integral pieces of the American spirit. We're a fairly conflicted country, and I think it shows in our personalities.

tyrus72

02-07-2006, 08:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
the 2+2 forum posts are somewhat trivial in their consequences compared to a Senior Honour Theses.)

[/ QUOTE ]

One could argue that 2+2 forum posts are more widely read than the most theses. The only "consequence" of many theses is that a degree was granted, they rarely even enter the fabric of public discourse.

aeest400

02-07-2006, 11:29 AM

I was alarmed when I read the quote from OP. (There are way too many religious wackos, including the man himself, associated with the Bush administration). After discovering that it was a quote from Augustine used to introduce an economics thesis, I was impressed with the wit and breadth of learning of the new Fed Chairman.

I was not impressed with the wit of the original poster. This initial conclusion has been supported over the course of the thread. When he does not resort to ad hominem arguments (more readily than most), his reasoning is shallow and self-justifying.

guesswest

02-07-2006, 11:30 AM

RE: The Augustine quote. It seems to me that the most likely use is tongue in cheek/humorous, math geeks have a tendency to do stuff like that. That's true not only imagining the context, but also with what we know of Bernancke - he seems very much the geeky scholarly type and very much not the faith based logic is the devil type. I'd still like a bit more background to be sure of that - unfortunately I suspect if someone produced his thesis I wouldn't understand a word of it anyway.

RE: The US being an empire. Much more interesting question this, but I think it essentially comes down to how you're defining empire. My own belief is that the US is indeed an empire, but in a non-traditional sense. I think the factors that make the US a cohesive a world-reaching power are media and consumerism, and probably in that order. It's that control over economics and idealogy that makes the US so globally potent in my mind, as oppose to troop size, land possession, how that land's acquired etc. That is an absolutely massive subject tho, and could use a forum of it's own nevermind a dedicated thread.

And btw, I think 'empire' is an ethically neutral idea, it has the potential to do as much good in the world as it does bad.

RJT

02-07-2006, 12:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
In fact, if you bother to read the whole article the one I quoted from, not the one inaccuratley attributed as my source, by and early responder, the last sentence attributes the words to Bermanke, thereby illustrating the fact that the semantic value of the quote was of import, not the author.

[/ QUOTE ]

Directly from your link:

“The passage, a quote from St Augustine…”

The author of the news article gives the source of the quote.

Directly from your post:

“Christian econimics (sic)??? Harvard, this center of learning? What next?”

Neither the use of the quote by Bernanke nor the reference in the news article to him using it in his thesis have anything to do with promulgating Christianity as your OP suggests.

Bernanke used the quote as an ice-breaker, light humor, to begin his thesis. If the quote was from someone other than Augustine it would not have the intended impact for Bernanke at the time. Augustine is no Joe Some. Whether one agrees with Augustine or not he is an important figure in philosophy. The irony that he used it then and is now the Fed Chairman is even funnier today. To not include the source and context of the quote robs the reader of the humor to it all. For the sake of the discussion let’s assume that it is not relevant that Augustine said it. It still is most relevant how Bernanke used the quote (as humor). The fact that he used the quote back then and is now Chairman is even funnier. Indeed, one of the points of the news article was to show Bernanke’s quirky, humorous personality.

Madnak is exactly correct when he says:

[ QUOTE ]
It's tongue-in-cheek. Witty self-deprecation. He used many mathematical formulae in his thesis, and he felt that it might be good to dampen the effect of that. It also gave the essay a vigorous opening and showed his professors that he didn't take himself too seriously. (or at least self deprecating)

[/ QUOTE ]

You answered Madnak by saying, “Could be... maybe so. I honestly can't say..” No could be, no maybe so – definitetly yes. You missed the humor.

While Bernanke did not intend the quote as suggesting a Christian view to energy policy in his thesis, your OP suggest the opposite now that he is “in charge of” the economy. Not only did you (almost) rob your reader of the humor, you mislead us. Perhaps, this was not intentional on your part (you didn’t get the humor). It did in fact occur.

No one cares about the fact that you were intent on bashing the U. S. (and Christianity). You messed up and those who are arguing with you simply want you to understand that. Let it go.

RJT

p.s. The second paragraph of your OP is also a direct quote from the news article. The omission of quotation marks make it look like the statement is your own. That did not help the matter either.

timotheeeee

02-07-2006, 12:51 PM

I have no agenda.
I am not a patriot.
I hate religious wackos.

This guy was not quoting Augustine the way I may quote Patrick Henry in a paper on liberty. He obviously did not use that quote to illustrate to everyone how enamored he was of Augustine's position. Seriously, please give it up. If you're not worried about about your credibility with us, then, please, go right on ahead. But I'm willing to give you a second chance.

ctj

02-07-2006, 02:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i suppose someone needs to tell you that america is not an empire. alaska and hawaii are states of this union, and so by choice. some (leased) landing rights for our military, in countries round the world, hardly qualifies as an occupation...........b

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to play more on this subject ...

Why isn't America an empire based on the common definition? Much of its territory was won in conflicts of conquest to some degree . And it has been on an ever-increasing expansion of influence and is clearly the dominant political and cultural force throughout its sphere of influence, and is ruled by a sovereign (albeit elected). So, what makes the Roman Empire an "empire" but not America?

I don't want a response that I'm anti-American or the like. Please just defend this statement on its own merit, not any perceived bias I may or may not have: "America is not an empire."

[/ QUOTE ]

Most of the USA's territory was 'won' by purchase: The Lousiana Purchase (868,000 sq miles - not just present-day Louisiana), The Alaska Purchase (570,000 sq miles), The Gadsen Purchase.

-- C.T. Jackson

ctj

02-07-2006, 03:05 PM

See This Post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4658902&an=0&page=1#Post 4658902), in the Politics forum, for an example of Bernanke's discourse -- it is a speech in honor of Milton Freidman's 90th birthday. He doesn't seem to mention religion at all.

-- C.T. Jackson

tyrus72

02-07-2006, 06:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
oh boy, 1) what is 'your' common definition? 2)what types of conflicts don't have as their primary aim 'conquest' (i assume you mean armed conflicts)3)influence, in or out of their sphere is what major, generally economic, powers strive to obtain, and increase.4) there are various forms of power (for example:a sea of oil) that will gain that influence.5) elected/sovereign...in a constitutional democracy...you have turned your weak but sincere effort into a howler. 6)please repeat cognative dissonance 10 times and get some rest. 7) no, i don't think you are an anti-american, and if you were you would not be very dangerous............b

[/ QUOTE ]

So I guess that means you will avoid the question.

thedustbustr

02-07-2006, 11:34 PM

Dear Midge,

[ QUOTE ]
I probably am a much better linguinst than you ... It seems that super supersensitives and insecure readers, took the post out of context, which made it more interesting anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have an extraneous comma between 'readers' and 'took.' You have also misplaced the adverb 'probably.' Your use of the word 'anyway' is redundant.

Good day ;-)

Humorously,
Dustin

miketurner

02-08-2006, 12:07 AM

I have always envisioned MidGe as the “7 minute abs” guy from ‘There’s Something About Mary.’ I picture that guy’s ticks and speech patterns when I read any of MidGe’s posts. It really brings his points home for me, and it’s quite entertaining. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

MidGe

02-08-2006, 06:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You have an extraneous comma between 'readers' and 'took.' You have also misplaced the adverb 'probably.' Your use of the word 'anyway' is redundant.

Good day ;-)

Humorously,
Dustin

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry not to cite your entire post, I may be misrepresenting things, but, seriously, you are right. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

MidGe

02-08-2006, 06:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
See This Post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4658902&an=0&page=1#Post 4658902), in the Politics forum, for an example of Bernanke's discourse -- it is a speech in honor of Milton Freidman's 90th birthday. He doesn't seem to mention religion at all.

-- C.T. Jackson

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree entirely with you! It doesn't mention religion at all unlike the thesis I quoted (partially from). So?

MidGe

02-08-2006, 06:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I have always envisioned MidGe as the “7 minute abs” guy from ‘There’s Something About Mary.’ I picture that guy’s ticks and speech patterns when I read any of MidGe’s posts. It really brings his points home for me, and it’s quite entertaining. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Mike I would like a url to a trailer showing the character you are mentionning, if possible. I expect it to be funny but I am not familiar with the serie or movie.

BCPVP

02-08-2006, 06:49 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
See This Post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4658902&an=0&page=1#Post 4658902), in the Politics forum, for an example of Bernanke's discourse -- it is a speech in honor of Milton Freidman's 90th birthday. He doesn't seem to mention religion at all.

-- C.T. Jackson

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree entirely with you! It doesn't mention religion at all unlike the thesis I quoted (partially from). So?

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Christian econimics??? Harvard, this center of learning? What next?

[/ QUOTE ]
So perhaps you can back up your assertion that Bernanke is going to create a "christian" economics.

MidGe

02-08-2006, 07:12 AM

Hello BCPVP,

I never made such assertions. My assertion, in a genereal way, and in keeping with other posts I have made on this forum, is that there is a pernacious and pervasive gradual invasion in various fields (economic, science, politics, etc.. ) of religious vocabulary examplified by the Bermanke thesis use of an Augustine quotation (altough I disagree that the fact it was from Augustine is of any import, as would be suggested is the opinion of the writer in the Scotsman) It think it is an attempt at subversion of the rational field by the irrational (no pejorative intended, but a lot of theist, though not all, will agree with me that faith is not a rational based decision).

So to repeat again, and hopefully not ad nauseum, my point is that religious quotations (or religious language for that matter) are, at least, curious to some, and to me very bizarre, if not downright unhealthy, in unrelated fields.

I am starting to see what you don't see in my original post. But hey, this is only a 2+2 forum , the rigourousness is not the same as a scientific paper. Well, looking around that is. The fact that yourself and others misread, it seems, what I had to say, and the fact that it generated such a number of views (hey popularity can be measured in polls, number of views of a thread, etc.) I still find very interesting and a measure of success as a thread starter.

I have re-read the whole series of post, the criticism directed at me, the misrepresentation, etc.. I feel I have answered them all and I am happy to stand by the record.

I see no need to be apologizing because one of the first replier misread my intention and most, from that point on, could not see the intend anymore. You could say that the intent had been polluted! /images/graemlins/smile.gif I mean it was not a dissertation but a short post. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

All that being said, I must, on the record thank Riddick Bearly, yourself and others that I may have inintentionally overlooked for, by their attempts at intellectual bullying, to have contributed to have made this a very successful post on this forum (Top 10%, by my reckoning).

I would encourage any poster to resist this form of bullying and not give up. It is well worth it.

BCPVP

02-08-2006, 07:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I never made such assertions. My assertion, in a genereal way, and in keeping with other posts I have made on this forum, is that there is a pernacious and pervasive gradual invasion in various fields (economic, science, politics, etc.. ) of religious vocabulary examplified by the Bermanke thesis use of an Augustine quotation (altough I disagree that the fact it was from Augustine is of any import, as would be suggested is the opinion of the writer in the Scotsman)

[/ QUOTE ]
These two sentences contradict each other.

[ QUOTE ]
So to repeat again, and hopefully not ad nauseum, my point is that religious quotations (or religious language for that matter) are, at least, curious to some, and to me very bizarre, if not downright unhealthy, in unrelated fields

[/ QUOTE ]
Unhealthy? Goodness, we should ban it then, right? No more religious quotation because of health concerns. Frankly sir, you seem to be the bizarre one, who can't see humor when it's staring him in the face and when countless people tell you so.

MidGe

02-08-2006, 07:57 AM

BCBPV,

You are the bizarre one, imo, but I appreciate your contribution to keep this thread alive and continuing demonstrating you lack of subtlety when it comes to intelligent debate. You are just re-inforcing my position.

The two sentences are not contradictory as whoever they would have been uttered by (Augustine or Stalin) that quote has just got a huge religious content (its semantic value is religious based... umm maybe that's beyond you). Sorry you don't notice it. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

guesswest

02-08-2006, 08:44 AM

MidGe - it is at the very least horrible writing to quote a source and not correctly attribute it as a requote. Even on occasions where the requote is entirely in keeping with the spirit of the subject's view (and there's more than sufficient reason to doubt that here), you should never do this if you want to write coherently and fairly. That's a fundamental rule of writing. And that's why your OP was misleading, even if it wasn't your intention to mislead.

miketurner

02-08-2006, 08:57 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have always envisioned MidGe as the “7 minute abs” guy from ‘There’s Something About Mary.’ I picture that guy’s ticks and speech patterns when I read any of MidGe’s posts. It really brings his points home for me, and it’s quite entertaining. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Mike I would like a url to a trailer showing the character you are mentionning, if possible. I expect it to be funny but I am not familiar with the serie or movie.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really doubt that character would be in any trailer. It was only a 10 minute scene in a 2 hour movie. If it is available down there, you should rent it. It is very funny. I doubt you will even be offended that I compared you to him, because it’s so funny. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

MidGe

02-08-2006, 09:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If it is available down there, you should rent it. It is very funny. I doubt you will even be offended that I compared you to him, because it’s so funny.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry for only partially quoting you, but I am trying to make a point.

I will look out for it, altough I did a search on the net and, looking at reviews and synopsis, I doubt I could spend 90 minutes watching it. More important things to do, like keeping this thread alive.. I mean responding to all the trolls since the start of this thread.

PS. I am sure that it would take much more to offend me. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

guesswest

02-08-2006, 09:18 AM

The point isn't that you partially quoted, it's that you REQUOTED (though partial quoting could be equally as bad if you were doing so entirely out of context). Take an example on this board. Person X writes something I disagree with completely, say 'the holocaust didn't happen'. I hit quote and respond to them saying 'that's a load of crap'. You then quote me quoting them, guesswest said 'the holocaust didn't happen'.

Sometimes it's that blatant, sometimes it's not, sometimes it ends up being harmless, but it's for that reason, in the interests of clarity, that in good writing you ALWAYS attribute a requote as such where you know it is one.

miketurner

02-08-2006, 09:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
More important things to do, like keeping this thread alive.. I mean responding to all the trolls since the start of this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow. You really think that everyone is trolling you? You also said in another post that the number of hits & responses to this thread demonstrate your popularity... Are you serious? And you’re shocked when people say you are bizarre? It is because you are so bizarre that this thread gets so many hits.

No one has trolled you here. There is no reason you should want to ‘keep this thread alive’. The best way to get the last word is to apologize. The only other way you will get the last word is when people get bored with you, & just stop responding. How long till you think that anything you say will be taken seriously?

MidGe

02-08-2006, 09:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes it's that blatant, sometimes it's not, sometimes it ends up being harmless, but it's for that reason, in the interests of clarity, that in good writing you ALWAYS attribute a requote as such where you know it is one.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree entirely. I am also certain that most posts can be improved on.

The point is that in my context /images/graemlins/smile.gif it is totally irrelevant who the quote is from. And that it seems the same way, in the article I quoted from. I used carefully the word curious in my quote from the article is it was the key one. By the way if you read the original article, not the one I was "incorrectly" and "ignorantly" attributed as quoting from, you will find that the author (altough he does mention the source - it is a matter of how many level deep we go.. was Augustine quoting someone?) does not see it as relevant to the point he is making. In fact the last sentence of the article, according to your interpretation then attributes the words to Barnanke himself... you better send a correction to the Scotsman... better ask Bernanke himself, if the fact that the quote was from Augustine was of import... I bet his answer would be no, that the semantic value of the quote was, however.

I must say that I am amazed at the obtuseness of the trolls on this thread (troll behaviour: keeps on shifting the goal posts in a debate). I have kept to my only point all the way. I'll keep on standing on the record and respond to your very primitive attempt at intellectual bullying. Personally I don't care whether the quote is from Augustine, Stalin, Mao, neither do I care (and i don't know) whether Bermanke is muslim, catholic or jew... The point I am making is the same.

To answer another poster in one reply... altough maybe I should spread my answers to get the thread going /images/graemlins/smile.gif : Yes, I definitely think that religion perfectly fits the definition of neuroses according to some psychological schools and is unhealthy. That could be the subject of another thread . /images/graemlins/smile.gif

That may very well be what is riling you so much.

Anyway, I start to see why I find it relatively easy to win at Poker. You don't need be that subtle, just a bit finer/subtler than the others over a long run. Given the answers on this thread, this should be very easy. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

guesswest

02-08-2006, 10:35 AM

Look, I don't need to send a correction to the Scotsman, because the journalist who wrote that article DID make clear the quote was from Augustine, in the very first line. He did that because it is absolutely one of the most fundamental rules of writing to correctly attribute quotes. There is no way, on his/her worst day, regardless of context or anything else, that any serious journalist would fail to identify the author of a quote where they were aware of that author's identity.

I personally find it hard to believe that you couldn't think there was at least some grey area with regards to how that quote should be interpreted, but even if you did think that, even if you were 100% sure the quote was in context and the requoter would be happy to be associated with the viewpoint espoused - even then, it is fundamental writing etiquette to attribute the quote. There are absolutely no exceptions to that. If you failed to do so in any published piece, in any kind of academic writing - everything you wrote would be instantly discredited and disregarded.

bobman0330

02-08-2006, 01:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
its semantic value is religious based

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course it isn't. Perhaps you should spend less time finding confusing jargon to couch your points in and more time thinking.

RJT

02-08-2006, 01:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps you should spend…more time thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure this is a good idea, bobman? (You know the saying – be careful what you wish for, you might get it.) /images/graemlins/wink.gif

RJT

bobman0330

02-08-2006, 02:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps you should spend…more time thinking.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure this is a good idea, bobman? (You know the saying – be careful what you wish for, you might get it.) /images/graemlins/wink.gif

RJT

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, good point. I rescind my suggestion. BTW, nice work on noting your modifications to the quoted material with ellipsis--really preserves the sanctity of the source.

miketurner

02-08-2006, 05:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you failed to do so in any published piece, in any kind of academic writing - everything you wrote would be instantly discredited and disregarded.

[/ QUOTE ]

Isn't that what has happened here?

bearly

02-08-2006, 05:18 PM

i guess truth-seeking is "bullying" to the insecure. a side-note: you must write in australian because your american is terrible. treat yourself to a course in grammer--either language...............b

bearly

02-08-2006, 05:22 PM

amen..........and that's not an attempt to bring god into this thread (to australians; in america this is funny)......................b

bearly

02-08-2006, 05:24 PM

oowah...........(to clarify, that's an imitation of al pacino)........b

bearly

02-08-2006, 05:28 PM

it never was.........b

bearly

02-08-2006, 05:33 PM

i think the cats have played w/ this mouse long enough. let's let it crawl off and die................b

bearly

02-08-2006, 05:37 PM

do you not understand the nature of discursive thinking? the questions are now out there for you to deal w/..........b

guesswest

02-08-2006, 05:47 PM

err......bearly?

bearly

02-08-2006, 06:19 PM

fair enough.....b

MidGe

02-09-2006, 07:34 AM

bearly,

thanks again for your contribution to allow me to keep this thread alive and increase the number of views on this thread. As I said, I stand on the record.. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I must say that in terms of quantity of posts you are quite remarkable. In fact I would say the the quantity of your posts is only matched by te economy of words and the paucity of meaning, relevance and interest in your posts.

By the way, this cat will play with the mice as long the mice are around, and, he is not getting bored by the posts that would not even qualify as slogans, let alone, answers or comments. You gotta do better than that! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Ah.. the difference between a jock and an intellectual! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

BTW, I reached a nice milestone: 2000+ views for this thread. [in the top 10% for this forum]

RJT

02-09-2006, 11:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
...BTW, I reached a nice milestone: 2000+ views for this thread. [in the top 10% for this forum]

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, it is time to come clean. How old are you?

MidGe

02-09-2006, 09:09 PM

RJT,

??? How does caring about the success of this site and forum has any relationship to age?

Looking at some of the puerile answers on this thread (bearly i particular), I would have to say older than most of the posters here. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

RJT

02-09-2006, 09:56 PM

Midge,

Ok, I’ll give you some more press and post another reply for your ego.

You either need to get a grip on how to write better English (to write what you mean to say) or cop to it once you are busted. Your post had nothing to do with the success of 2+2, rather it was meant as brag post (should be moved to BBV forum) - at least that is how it was written. That is not my opinion, it is fact. Your subject was you and your milestone for your thread, not the forum nor the site.

Argue with that and you will only prove everyone’s point here.

RJT

bearly

02-10-2006, 12:18 AM

we can easily tell you are the jock by your obsession w/ "your" stats. it is really funny that you are so obsessed w/ your length. you are in the top 10 percent. perhaps if you were able to write a thesis you would insist it be weighed. anyway, i am quite the opposite of a jock. i fought the academic wars w/ those old oxford dons 40 years ago. intellectual maturity does take time--i had no idea how little i understood and how far i had to go when i was 30--degrees and teaching positions aside. my posts are short. they are all i care to say, unless a good debate starts up. your clown-show has been fun to watch. you say i need better material? you haven't been in a position to hear any of mine. how would you know. perhaps, the same way you know the rest of what you speak................b

MidGe

02-10-2006, 12:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
...you haven't been in a position to hear any of mine...

[/ QUOTE ]

I rest my case. Your posts on this thread were mostly void of content or relevance. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

BrickTamlin

02-10-2006, 12:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
we can easily tell you are the jock by your obsession w/ "your" stats. it is really funny that you are so obsessed w/ your length. you are in the top 10 percent. perhaps if you were able to write a thesis you would insist it be weighed. anyway, i am quite the opposite of a jock. i fought the academic wars w/ those old oxford dons 40 years ago. intellectual maturity does take time--i had no idea how little i understood and how far i had to go when i was 30--degrees and teaching positions aside. my posts are short. they are all i care to say, unless a good debate starts up. your clown-show has been fun to watch. you say i need better material? you haven't been in a position to hear any of mine. how would you know. perhaps, the same way you know the rest of what you speak................b

[/ QUOTE ]

You are right. Intellectual maturity does take time. We won't hold our breath for you, though.

bearly

02-10-2006, 01:27 AM

now that is just breath-taking........that IS your and midge's material? all of it? in the years to come we will, perhaps, be treated to 1 or 2 more such gems..........b

bearly

02-10-2006, 01:31 AM

your fatuous outburst aside, i just can't say goodbye to this thread w/out finding out if you and brick measure yourselves together...............?..............b

chezlaw

02-10-2006, 04:25 AM

<--------- out for a duck

v.poor running

chez

lehighguy

02-10-2006, 06:39 AM

Can you link the whole paper.

MidGe

02-10-2006, 07:05 AM

No, I was quoting from an article which quoted the paper.

I am however certain, that the fact that the quote was from Augustine, in particular, is not related to the paper. I mean it was a more important, to the author I presume, than many other papers he had written at that time. This was a senior honour thesis in Economics at Harvvard.

The article that I quoted found the "quote" "bizarre", also. You just need to read the link I gave rather than the one attributed to me by one of the first replier to my post. That reply being the polluter of my intention and the direct catalyst for making this thread very succesfull.

I just found it more than "bizarre" regardless who was quoted. If it was ironical the the irony was either targetted at the rest of the paper, or at Augustine. Personally, I don't care even at that. My concern is the smudgeing of boundaries between the irrational and the rational that is, more and more, to be found in various USA discourses, be they political, economical, scientific or others. Blunding that boundary, imo, is rather unhealthy.

But, I accept, I am not part of the majority opinion. In fact, that has never been my aim. I think of it as a lowering of standards.

I have also been surprised at the furore I created, but not at the response I had, given the forum, and, I accept, my presentation in the OP. /images/graemlins/smile.gif Hey, anything, nearly, can be improved upon. It was well above average standard of OP on this forum and , surely, of posts in general.

The punctuation in the above was especially choosen to give an opportunity to less subtle posters to answer in a way that would make their lack of subtlety obvious.