Andy Fox's Brilliant Idea

[David Sklansky]

Wish I could claim credit for it but it is his.

Men who expose themselves to woman are, I'm told virtually never violent. Still they cause most woman a lot of distress. And if they are caught, there is a significant punishment awaiting.

Female doctors on the other hand would take such flashers in stride. And would make efforts to get them help. If the punishment for flashing female doctors was a lot less severe than for woman in general, a lot of flashers would seek out only them. Many wouldn't since shock value may be part of the thrill. But some would. Which would mean there would be fewer distressed woman and more flashers getting the help they need. Thanks Andy.

[Utah]

[ QUOTE ]
Wish I could claim credit for it but it is his.

Men who expose themselves to woman are, I'm told virtually never violent. Still they cause most woman a lot of distress. And if they are caught, there is a significant punishment awaiting.

Female doctors on the other hand would take such flashers in stride. And would make efforts to get them help. If the punishment for flashing female doctors was a lot less severe than for woman in general, a lot of flashers would seek out only them. Many wouldn't since shock value may be part of the thrill. But some would. Which would mean there would be fewer distressed woman and more flashers getting the help they need. Thanks Andy.

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Interesting. However, there are 2 potential problems:
1) More flashers could enter the market because the cost of flashing has become less severe in certain cases
2) Flashers can be helped and that treatment works. I believe that the ability to change someones sexual kink is extremely difficult.

[David Sklansky]

Not a big deal if more flashers enter the market. They will restrict themselves to doctors and get identified. The part about getting help is just gravy if it sometimes occurs. Andy's brilliance can't be refuted that easily.

[bkholdem]

The flashers would need to do a cost benefit analysis re: the decreased utility of a perfunctory reaction in flashing a doctor compared to decreased risk of arrest. Any 'help' is only going to come after an arrest so I would discount, with the caveat that the real 'help' would in fact be the the perfunctory reaction from the doctors, decreasing the pleasure of the exposure, thereby decreasing the likelyhood of repeat offenses.

But the flashers (unless psychotic and delusional) do it for the reaction so doctors or others who are going to provide a perfunctory reaction are targets that do not interest the flashers. Upon receiving a lack of stimulation after flashing they will still be craving the shock reaction and thrill of risk so will seek another target.

Doctors, or other enlightened females who will presumedly repsond in a perfunctory manner to the flasher would have to be artifically inserted into the flashers enviornment, exposing him to female after female who does not get 'shocked'. Then he is cured.

[Utah]

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Not a big deal if more flashers enter the market. They will restrict themselves to doctors and get identified. The part about getting help is just gravy if it sometimes occurs. Andy's brilliance can't be refuted that easily.

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I made no argument about the brilliance of Andy's idea or tried to refute it. I just pointed out a couple of potential issues. I only like refuting your ideas (although I must admit that I liked your "100 extremely smart people" concept).

But, while I dont disagree with the idea, it is escapable. Maybe flashing female doctors is a gateway crime to something more serious - such as public flashing, loss of productivity of the flasher, etc. Upon more reflection - I think the biggest issue may be this statement, " If the punishment for flashing female doctors was a lot less severe than for woman in general, a lot of flashers would seek out only them." Why should be assume that to be true?

Where I think the "brilliance" resides is in the general form of the idea for such problems such that, even if it didnt work here (although I am not saying it wont) it can be applied elsewhere. For example, I bet there are some interesting applications in alcohol related crimes.

[felson]

[ QUOTE ]
Female doctors on the other hand would take such flashers in stride. And would make efforts to get them help. If the punishment for flashing female doctors was a lot less severe than for woman in general, a lot of flashers would seek out only them.

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I doubt that female doctors would be happy about this.

[revots33]

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Female doctors on the other hand would take such flashers in stride. And would make efforts to get them help.

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems like a big assumption. Just because a woman sees male genetalia in her job does not mean she would not be freaked out when someone exposes himself to her during her regular non-work life. I may be wrong but my guess is a female doctor would react pretty much the same way as anyone else in this situation.

[bkholdem]

Acutally female analysts/psychiatrists/psychologists would probaly be the most 'helpful' as they are more likely to understand the dynamics and respond in perfunctory manner when encountering a flasher.

I haven't read this andy fox report, where is it?

[PLOlover]

Would it be a crime if a flasher went to a female psychologist/therapist and durinjg the session he flashed her?

[IronUnkind]

I fully expect your Algebra book to display comparable brilliance.

[BadBoyBenny]

Should equal protection under the law be applied in objective and absolute terms or should it be relative to the perceived injury? If the answer is the first, which I think it should be in almost all cases, then the ideal outweighs the pragmatic benefits of such a system.

[andyfox]

David said in one of his posts:

"Do you guys deny that MOST prostitutes, if confronted by an armed burgler would not seriously entertain the idea of offering themselves in exchange for leaving the house intact?"

To which I responded:

"Isn't it possible the most prostitutes, knowing how dangerous men in an agitated state can be, especially men that are armed, would be less likely to offer themselves compared to a woman of less experience?

"If we made the crime of flashing a female doctor less serious than that of flashing a non-doctor, wouldn't that tend to cause flashers to seek out females doctors, knowing that, if caught, they'd face a less severe punishment?"

To which David, in turn, responded:

"Andy, Andy, Andy, What am I going to do with you?"

To which I asked for his help. I'm going to be looking for it in this thread. Plain english, please, for us fuzzy thinkers. Thanks.

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
David said in one of his posts:

"Do you guys deny that MOST prostitutes, if confronted by an armed burgler would not seriously entertain the idea of offering themselves in exchange for leaving the house intact?"

To which I responded:

"Isn't it possible the most prostitutes, knowing how dangerous men in an agitated state can be, especially men that are armed, would be less likely to offer themselves compared to a woman of less experience?

"If we made the crime of flashing a female doctor less serious than that of flashing a non-doctor, wouldn't that tend to cause flashers to seek out females doctors, knowing that, if caught, they'd face a less severe punishment?"

To which David, in turn, responded:

"Andy, Andy, Andy, What am I going to do with you?"

To which I asked for his help. I'm going to be looking for it in this thread. Plain english, please, for us fuzzy thinkers. Thanks.

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OK, thanks. I personally find your argument very compelling re: a prostitute assessing the agitated intruder and not offering herself based on her experience. (Ironically, they would also be much better able to integrate any 'rape' experience should it happen in the abscence of an offer as well, so they risk less by not offering and if the man decides to do this anyway as part of the invasion they are better able to manage the situation).

I would venture to guess they would be better able to assess the man and modulate their behavior during and after the rape to reduce the likelyhood of being killed as well. Except for with an inexperienced home invader/rapist, as they may have more remorse for an 'innocent' woman (there is only so much you can fake) and be less likely to kill the average girl next door but be less stricken with guilt about the thought of killing a woman who seems to have been around the block a few times. But a prostitute would be able to assess an inexperienced villian and may be able to plot to do him in by inviting the sex act and trick him into complaciency.

In any event, I don't understand the connection you are making with flashers and doctors and punnishments.

[andyfox]

David said (or insinuated, can't remember just now) (or maybe it was my poor reading) that the crime is less egregious when a prostitute is raped than when a "normal" woman is. I was questioning, then, whether flashing is less egregious when done in front of female doctor.

I also asked, in the same thread, if stealing $1,000 from me is a more serious crime than stealing it from Bill Gates. That is, if the effect on the victim should be taken into consideration when assessing the seriousness of a crime. I assume we all agree it should (for example, I shoot somebody; I assume we all agree that I should be punished more severely if the victim dies than if the bullet hits his keycase and doesn't harm him); but I'm wondering where and how we draw the lines. Another poster brought up the example of hiting a frail woman with the same force as a professional boxer.

[David Sklansky]

This whole thread was just my having fun with Andy and his occasional screwed up arguments. Although as Utah pointed there might be some important kernels to be gleaned.

[andyfox]

"This whole thread was just my having fun with Andy and his occasional screwed up arguments."

Fun is good. Thanks for the "occasional" and the euphemistic "screwed up." People should know you've been polite and patient with me over the years, more so than I've been with you. Thanks for that too.

[siegfriedandroy]

Andy is a great man!

[Utah]

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People should know you've been polite and patient with me over the years, more so than I've been with you. Thanks for that too.

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Is this some form of a bizarre courting ritual between you two?