Monkey Business

[hmkpoker]

This one's a doozy. (http://nytimes.com/2005/06/05/magazine/05FREAK.html?ex=1275624000&en=af2d9755a2c32ba8&ei= 5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all)

Cliff notes: Yale economists/psychologists train monkeys to use money for various experiments. Monkeys behave rationally to price changes, and irrationally to gambles (showing similar loss aversion that humans do)

When allowed to coexist socially, these monkey capitalists quickly figured out that money can be exchanged for other services, and began paying each other for sex.

The world's oldest profession, indeed /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[51cards]

[ QUOTE ]
When allowed to coexist socially, these monkey capitalists quickly figured out that money can be exchanged for other services, and began paying each other for sex.

The world's oldest profession, indeed /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

monkey hookahs, sweet.

[PLOlover]

I'll give 50,000$ to the first person to substantiate a claim by one of the monkey-tutes of rape.

[surftheiop]

good stuff, thanks for the link

[Borodog]

Awesome. Thanks!

[Borodog]

By the way, I really hate the way people characterize risk aversion as "irrational." Nothing could be further from the truth.

[hmkpoker]

[ QUOTE ]
By the way, I really hate the way people characterize risk aversion as "irrational." Nothing could be further from the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is that these people use a ridiculous definition of "rational" when they describe human rationality.

[DougShrapnel]

[ QUOTE ]
This one's a doozy. (http://nytimes.com/2005/06/05/magazine/05FREAK.html?ex=1275624000&en=af2d9755a2c32ba8&ei= 5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=all)

Cliff notes: Yale economists/psychologists train monkeys to use money for various experiments. Monkeys behave rationally to price changes, and irrationally to gambles (showing similar loss aversion that humans do)

When allowed to coexist socially, these monkey capitalists quickly figured out that money can be exchanged for other services, and began paying each other for sex.

The world's oldest profession, indeed /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]Cool stuff. Anyone have the full study? Why would they stop prostitution? It's monkey's, it would be pretty interesting to see what would come about letting it run for awhile. I image an increase in happiness, longer lives, and all sorts of good stuff. I'm also not convinced that we should describe the money as a sex worker. It may be customary to present a gift that is accepted as part of the mating ritual. Especially since this is going on during chaos, it's possible that this monkey's best chances of getting some are when the higher males are fighting and have their back turned.

[Nielsio]

Are the monkeys hiring?

[Rduke55]

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It may be customary to present a gift that is accepted as part of the mating ritual.

[/ QUOTE ]

In some species of animal a nuptial gift is required for copulation. And the female accepts or rejects based on the quality of the gift.

Cool article.

[luckyme]

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By the way, I really hate the way people characterize risk aversion as "irrational." Nothing could be further from the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this the experiment you're referring to?

[ QUOTE ]
Chen next introduced a pair of gambling games and set out to determine which one the monkeys preferred. In the first game, the capuchin was given one grape and, dependent on a coin flip, either retained the original grape or won a bonus grape. In the second game, the capuchin started out owning the bonus grape and, once again dependent on a coin flip, either kept the two grapes or lost one. These two games are in fact the same gamble, with identical odds, but one is framed as a potential win and the other as a potential loss.

[/ QUOTE ]

A coinflip decides whether you end up with 1 or two grapes in both. To prefer one method over the other does seem an emotional choice and not a rational one, rationally they are identical.

??

luckyme

[She]

[ QUOTE ]
the monkey who was paid for sex immediately traded the token in for a grape.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice. Penguins too, although not quite as obviously.

Link 1 (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/60302.stm)
Link 2 (http://www.calacademy.org/calwild/2004spring/stories/materialgirls.html)

[Borodog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
By the way, I really hate the way people characterize risk aversion as "irrational." Nothing could be further from the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this the experiment you're referring to?

[ QUOTE ]
Chen next introduced a pair of gambling games and set out to determine which one the monkeys preferred. In the first game, the capuchin was given one grape and, dependent on a coin flip, either retained the original grape or won a bonus grape. In the second game, the capuchin started out owning the bonus grape and, once again dependent on a coin flip, either kept the two grapes or lost one. These two games are in fact the same gamble, with identical odds, but one is framed as a potential win and the other as a potential loss.

[/ QUOTE ]

A coinflip decides whether you end up with 1 or two grapes in both. To prefer one method over the other does seem an emotional choice and not a rational one, rationally they are identical.

??

luckyme

[/ QUOTE ]

How is an emotionally-influenced decision an "irrational" one? Is it irrational for me to prefer waffles to pancakes?

But aside from that, the two situations are clearly different in an important way. While they have the same results in the long term, they are different in the short term. In one case you have only the risk of losing something you already own, and in the other you have a freeroll for winning something you don't. What sane person would not choose the latter over the former?

[Sephus]

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In one case you have only the risk of losing something you already own, and in the other you have a freeroll for winning something you don't. What sane person would not choose the latter over the former?

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't think you own the bonus grape, you have to flip if you take it.

[Borodog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In one case you have only the risk of losing something you already own, and in the other you have a freeroll for winning something you don't. What sane person would not choose the latter over the former?

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't think you own the bonus grape, you have to flip if you take it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell it to the monkey.

[Sephus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In one case you have only the risk of losing something you already own, and in the other you have a freeroll for winning something you don't. What sane person would not choose the latter over the former?

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't think you own the bonus grape, you have to flip if you take it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell it to the monkey.

[/ QUOTE ]

you did say sane person.