Remember all the circumcision hating awhile back?

[surftheiop]

I know this study isnt gospel but some reason to believe circumcision does have place in modern health.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/conditions/12/13/hiv.circumcision.ap/index.html

[arahant]

Lesson: Never second-guess the jews.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
I know this study isnt gospel but some reason to believe circumcision does have place in modern health.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/conditions/12/13/hiv.circumcision.ap/index.html

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem is, if the only real health benefit is this one, there is still practically no reason for anyone to do it besides urban AA males. At least in the US and probably all other Western countries. The incidence of HIV is just far too low to make this worthwhile, snipping every boy in the country. Its really cosmetic surgery for infants.

[evank15]

Circumcision is cruel, unusual and just another hateful artifact of archaic religious rhetoric.

I got an idea. I know of a way to reduce your chance of getting brain cancer to zero. All you have to do is cut off your head!

[censored] morons.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
Circumcision is cruel, unusual and just another hateful artifact of archaic religious rhetoric.

I got an idea. I know of a way to reduce your chance of getting brain cancer to zero. All you have to do is cut off your head!

[censored] morons.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats not a good analogy in this case, it would be better if we were talking about foreskin cancer. I mean, flu shots are cruel and hurtful too, but they stop old people from dying, so its probably a good idea. Same with MMR vaccines (although I guess the concept of herd immunity makes this a little more controversial.) I dont see how circumcision is any WORSE than these other things, except for it being permanent. The question isn't whether preventative but painful/cruel procedures are acceptable (I think we all agree they are) but whether this particular one is worth it. And I don't think it is. I won't be performing any of these, at least not as the information stands right now. Its an unnecessary cosmetic surgery on an infant, and I don't think its appropriate.

[evank15]

Cutting off a head is a lot closer to circumcision than an injection.

An injection is much closer to taking some liquid cold medicine or something.

Cutting off part of one's penis is extremely cruel and inhumane.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
Cutting off a head is a lot closer to circumcision than an injection.

An injection is much closer to taking some liquid cold medicine or something.

Cutting off part of one's penis is extremely cruel and inhumane.

[/ QUOTE ]

For real? I think your point sort of loses its validity when you claim cutting off a foreskin is closer to cutting off your head than getting a vaccine. You know that some small number of people die from vaccines, and that a larger number get the disease they are supposed to be vaccinated from? Its not anything like getting your head cut off.

[evank15]

It's cutting off a body part.

I really have a tough time seeing how it is not a valid analogy. Yes it takes it to the extreme, doesn't mean it's not valid.

[Prodigy54321]

[ QUOTE ]
It's cutting off a body part.

I really have a tough time seeing how it is not a valid analogy. Yes it takes it to the extreme, doesn't mean it's not valid.

[/ QUOTE ]

it is not even remotely similar in any of the relevent points.

perhaps cutting mens' nipples off would be a better analogy

[MidGe]

I say just cut their balls. I bet that will reduce the incidence of AIDS too, even in more significant ways.

[Phil153]

[ QUOTE ]
I say just cut their balls. I bet that will reduce the incidence of AIDS too, even in more significant ways.

[/ QUOTE ]

/end of thread.

[IronUnkind]

I'm thinking of going back in for a trim, now that it's socially acceptable again.

[madnak]

[ QUOTE ]
it is not even remotely similar in any of the relevent points.

perhaps cutting mens' nipples off would be a better analogy

[/ QUOTE ]

It's slightly more severe than cutting a man's nipples off, but considerably less severe than the removal of a clitoris. One of the better analogies out there.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Something that I've never seen brought up in these debates is masturbation. If you have a foreskin you don't need lubricants. Period. And it's nearly impossible to get an abrasion, no matter how much you masturbate. I assume it's tremendously more convenient to be uncircumsised.

[madnak]

Eh. Calluses.

[keith123]

foreskin is for weirdos.

[IronUnkind]

[ QUOTE ]
foreskin is for weirdos.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying Sklansky isn't really Jewish?

[calcbandit]

[ QUOTE ]
"It's not a magic bullet, but a potentially important intervention," agreed Dr. Kevin De [censored] of the World Health Organization.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol at his name and occupation

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"It's not a magic bullet, but a potentially important intervention," agreed Dr. Kevin De [censored] of the World Health Organization.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol at his name and occupation

[/ QUOTE ]

Good catch. Thats an absurd coincidence. How can you go into urology or whatever he does with a name like that? "Hi, my name is John Cliche!"

[surftheiop]

lol strawmanaments

[surftheiop]

strawman much?

[Prodigy54321]

[ QUOTE ]
lol strawmanaments

[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
strawman much?

[/ QUOTE ]

umm..I don't think you understand what a strawman is..neither one of them is setting up a strawman..they're just bad analogies

[surftheiop]

I might not, maybe im using the term wrong, this is what im basing it on.

To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent

They make a position saying we should cut out brains to save us from tumors, implying that cutting foreskins is somehow similar.

If i was misusing it, thanks for pointing it out.

[Prodigy54321]

[ QUOTE ]
They make a position saying we should cut out brains to save us from tumors, implying that cutting foreskins is somehow similar.

[/ QUOTE ]

that just makes it an invalid analogy..all analogies imply that the things being compared are similar...

if I say that..since pro-circumcisionists are in favor of cutting of any body part that may be susceptible to disease of some kind..it is saying that we should "cut out brains to save us from tumors"

that would be setting up a strawman since the position of the pro-circumcisionists that I have given is not their actual position.

EDIT: all invalid analogies essentially imply an incorrect position...since the opponent's position would have to be misrepresented to make the analogy correct...

the analogy itself, however, is just a refutation of the strawman argument that has been set up...

not that it matters /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Nielsio]

Child abuse isn't funny.

[luckyme]

[ QUOTE ]
Child abuse isn't funny.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just kidding around with my nephew about getting an overcrowded tooth removed.
Now I'm concerned he'll report his mom and dentist.

luckyme

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]
I say just cut their balls. I bet that will reduce the incidence of AIDS too, even in more significant ways.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also: No more testicular cancer, prostate cancer or male pattern baldness!

[DonkBluffer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"It's not a magic bullet, but a potentially important intervention," agreed Dr. Kevin De [censored] of the World Health Organization.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol at his name and occupation

[/ QUOTE ]

Good catch. Thats an absurd coincidence. How can you go into urology or whatever he does with a name like that? "Hi, my name is John Cliche!"

[/ QUOTE ]
This is off-topic, but this is from the book Phantoms in the Brain:
"... Two eminent English neurologists, Lord Russel Brain and Henry Head (yes, these are their real names), coined the phrase ..."

I laughed out loud. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[surftheiop]

neither is HIV

[jah7_fsu1]

When I was in high school girls made fun of this guy all the time for not being circumcised. I don't know how they found it out or whatever, but they made fun of him a lot. I don't remember the abuse and I didn't get made fun of...score!

[madnak]

Great! Just so long as you apply the same reasoning to other forms of culturally-accepted ritual mutilation, and don't try to pretend at an objective standard that applies to them.

There are places where women who aren't circumcised are made fun of and considered oddities as well.

[JMa]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Child abuse isn't funny.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just kidding around with my nephew about getting an overcrowded tooth removed.
Now I'm concerned he'll report his mom and dentist.

luckyme

[/ QUOTE ]

perfect analogy

[madnak]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Child abuse isn't funny.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just kidding around with my nephew about getting an overcrowded tooth removed.
Now I'm concerned he'll report his mom and dentist.

luckyme

[/ QUOTE ]

perfect analogy

[/ QUOTE ]

If you change it from "tooth" to "entire lining of the gums," then yes, perfect analogy.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Child abuse isn't funny.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just kidding around with my nephew about getting an overcrowded tooth removed.
Now I'm concerned he'll report his mom and dentist.

luckyme

[/ QUOTE ]

perfect analogy

[/ QUOTE ]

That might be a half-way decent analogy of the actual act of circumcision (although it isn't quite severe enough, probably, but I dont care for this point) but its a misleading analogy for the issue. At least, for MY issue. The analogy is pre-emptively removing teeth from ALL young children as a preventative measure. And crooked teeth are still way more common than HIV, so its still not strong enough. But its getting closer.

[canis582]

isnt the point of being circumsized to make me pay attention to the family delicatessen rather than enjoy my sex life?

[JMa]

i was ironic. that analogy was one of the worst ever.