I need a good book. I cant play!

[Stealthy]

I have bottled it. Plain and simple I just can't make myself play when I know I should. Here is my rundown of hands played for the month, all at $3 $6 6 max.

1st Feb - About 180 hands $195 profit.
2nd Feb - 800 hands $129 profit
3rd Feb - 150 hands $189 profit

Today I could have played easily 1500 hands given the time but didn't. The problem is fear. I am totally results orientated and always have been and I cannot break the cycle of quitting whilst I am ahead but it is getting worse.

Last month as I was still new to the limit I was able to force myself to keep playing until such time as my alloted time was up or I was ahead further than I had been before. Now I cannot even do that. It is the bad days that I fear and the ones that kill me.

I had 5 days last month where I had a terrible run of cards and mixed in with bad play I went down a ton of big bets. On these 5 days I estimate I played more hands than I did in the rest of the month combined! See if I am stuck I can play for ever, go figure! 2 of the days I played between 8 and 10 hours trying to recover. I did recover all but 2 of those days. But in short I am playing loads when the run of cards is bad and very short when the cards are hitting nicely. This is clearly all screwed up and I need to get this trend reversed.

I know all about the big picture and "one big session" and all that but just cannot get myself out of this. In my small sample size of 30K hands at the limit I beat it for well over 2BB/100 so I am sure I can beat the game. And the play of the opposition generally sucks so I have no fears there.

What scares me is the fear of the big downswing and the horrible, horrible way it feels when you cannot get a single hand to hold up. Others talk of 300BB downswings being almost normal, well my worse one is 100BB so far (all in one day though) I just don't want to get to those depths.

The stupid thing in all this is that in reality I cannot lose! I have already withdrawn from my poker account thousands more than I have put in and even if I lost every cent of my 4.5k in there at the moment I still would have that overall profit that cannot be taken away.

The money is important for extra comforts for me and my family but not vital, although I am far from ready to give up entirely. I just need to be able to force myself to play more in a game that I know earns me a good profit.

I forced myself to open up another table this evening and ended up in a 6 max game with 5 players all of which were loose passive! An absolute dream. First hand from the BB I flop 2 pair and fall to a runner runner straight to a guy who called the flop with nothing and the turn with a gutter. 3rd hand in I flop a set of 4s and get called down by 3 players. I am now $18 up at the table, I fold the 4th and 5th hands and sit out! I just could not face the prospect of losing my $200 days profit. I left after 1 round!

This has been hard admiting how weak I am at the moment but I cannot find a way out. I need to understand the psycology of it a bit more so that I can begin to deal with this and get back to doing what I have studied hard for, playing poker. So if anybody can recommend any good literature out ther to help me deal with this then please do so and help me get back on track.

Ramble over.

[Allinlife]

get inside the poker mind.

problem solved.

[AceofSpades]

have you considered switching to playing NL?

[Herrigel]

[ QUOTE ]
get inside the poker mind.

problem solved.

[/ QUOTE ]

rubbish!

[satya]

Well, maybe what you might need to work on first is the not quitting while you are behind thing? Seems like you may have conditioned yourself to be adverse to being down. When we are down and can't catch crap we can't get back up again it sucks. Even when I do catch back up I feel like that time could have been better spent been learning, analyzing hands, reading etc.

So, it would not seem unusual that you would really want to quit while you were ahead given your behavior when you're behind.

Make sense?

If you set a limit - "I'm only gonna lose $x today" and then quit - just do it, discipline is crucial to the game right? - then you won't have that being way down and can't catch up feeling to fear when you are running good.

I know PokerRoom allows you to set deposit limits for 24hr periods. You can reset it but there's a 2 day wait period before the new limit goes into effect.

Sorry exactly the opposite advice you asked for but that's how I see it FWIW.

As far as books go? I don't know of any poker related that address this to great extent. The only thing I could suggest would be the first few chapters of "Being Nobody, Going Nowhere". It's a book on Buddhism but it has some useful insight into how our mind/ego can often get in the way of what we really want.

[Roy Munson]

If you can't break the cycle of quitting while you are ahead you should probably quit for good while you are ahead and never play again.

Quitting while you are ahead and the converse, staying in a game while you are stuck just in the hope that you can make a comeback is a disastrous mindset.

When you are ahead in a game you will often have a good table image that you can use to your advantage. When you are stuck and your table image is poor, players will tend to take shots at you.

You also spend more time playing when you have much less than the best of it.

If you truly can not get past this dilemma, quitting the game may be your best option.

[RydenStoompala]

No you don't. Take a break, then hit the gas.

[Stealthy]

[ QUOTE ]

If you truly can not get past this dilemma, quitting the game may be your best option.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whilst I recognise that I need to find a way to deal with this, quitting poker when it doubles my day-job income is not an option I am yet considering.

I felt really geared up for a long session today which was good. Unfortunately it was one of those big downswing days that we all love! So now I don't know whether I played long cause I was stuck $500 or whether I would have played a decent length session anyway!

I am amazed that my BB/100 stands the pressure of playing so many hands when things are bad.

[Good Idea]

Stealthy,

I used to be you. I would get out of a profitable game in order to lock in the win, and stay too long in a tough game trying to get even. Completely results oriented. From your post it seems that you think being "results oriented" is your problem. That's NOT your problem.
You need to do some self-examination. Why are you so afraid to have a losing session? Is the money that important? Are you the type of person who needs security? Afraid to take chances in life? In what way{s} does this poker attitude reflect itself in your life outside of poker? Take some time and give these questions some thought. You need to find the root before you can find the cure.
I also see that your a winning player. So why change anything? Why not just continue with what's working?
What are your goals? Do you just want to make a little extra to supplement you income? Are you trying to become a world-class player? Do you even enjoy playing poker?
Finally, how does your wife feel about it? Particularly, what is her reaction to a losing session?

Give these questions some thought and post your answers. We'll all be better able to help. I started this post by saying that I used to be you. I got past it and so can you but you must find out where you're coming from first.


Regards,
G.I.

[tminus]

its not clear from this post what your goals in playing the game, without that its hard to answer your question

[Stealthy]

[ QUOTE ]
its not clear from this post what your goals in playing the game, without that its hard to answer your question

[/ QUOTE ]

My goals in poker are financial and always have been. At first I played the game just cause I enjoyed it and felt I could become half decent at it. Then it became a way to get a few extra £s to spend on the good things in life. Now with the game and limits I play, although still modest by most peoples standards, I am looking at it as a 2nd job whereby I can double my income.

That may be part of the problem, that I now see it as a job and a lot of the enjoyment has gone from the game.

Yesterdays session I think did help me in that although stuck for most of the day it did not bother me like it had previously. Maybe because I knew I could recover or that overall I was still comfortably winning. I hope that now the fear of losing has been largely negated as I stayed completely calm yesterday and did not feel stressed by being down. Maybe now I will be able to put in the proper play time no matter the results, we shall see though.

[Dave H.]

Stealthy, each of us is unique and each of us has to do what's best for us.

The ONLY unalterable in Poker is the mathematical odds. Everything else is up to you. No one can tell you that playing on after booking a win is -EV because they can't feel what you feel when you kick yourself later for having continued. It's true, of course, that the cards have no memory. However, if you lean towards playing too passively after booking a win, then by continuing, your passive play itself could cause you to lose.

Do what YOU think is best for your pocketbook.

[tminus]

i know that for myself, fear changes my perception of things and alot of problems can result from it. they look like real problems at first but really are just symptoms.

....maybe you could focus on how to handle fear in all of your life rather than just your poker career.

i try to turn to spiritual solutions when i get afraid, i like meditation and prayer but to each his own

[Stealthy]

[ QUOTE ]
Stealthy,

I used to be you. I would get out of a profitable game in order to lock in the win, and stay too long in a tough game trying to get even. Completely results oriented. From your post it seems that you think being "results oriented" is your problem. That's NOT your problem.
You need to do some self-examination. Why are you so afraid to have a losing session? Is the money that important? Are you the type of person who needs security? Afraid to take chances in life? In what way{s} does this poker attitude reflect itself in your life outside of poker? Take some time and give these questions some thought. You need to find the root before you can find the cure.
I also see that your a winning player. So why change anything? Why not just continue with what's working?
What are your goals? Do you just want to make a little extra to supplement you income? Are you trying to become a world-class player? Do you even enjoy playing poker?
Finally, how does your wife feel about it? Particularly, what is her reaction to a losing session?

Give these questions some thought and post your answers. We'll all be better able to help. I started this post by saying that I used to be you. I got past it and so can you but you must find out where you're coming from first.


Regards,
G.I.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is so accurate that I can see clearly that you have been there too!

Financially I feel at the moment that I need to be playing poker. Sure myself and my family would still be fine without it, but winning money online makes the financial side of life so much easier than it could be.

What you said about gambling is also true. I am not a risk taker and am also not a gambler apart from Poker. I never play games of chance and bet on the horses once or twice a year if that, and then only a small token amount, not for real monetary gain.

Emotionally the game does affect me and it is this that I think is at the root of it all. Sometimes I have been so snappy with the kids after a bad session and virtually ignore my wife. I am not shouting at them or anything just being really short with them and unfriendly. They are only 7 and 4 and it is a relly crappy way to be. I hate myself when I get like it. In my own defence though I am getting a lot better and do still act the friendly dad after a heavy loss even if I am really down in myself.

I enjoy poker a lot less than I used to. The money makes me treat it like a 2nd job instead of fun.

Game wise I want to move up to $5 $10 in the next couple of months but will not do so until I have FULLY got past this. And I am getting there ........

....... today I played for a good length of time again and although the poker Gods were not smiling on me for most of it I did carry on playing once I had got back even for the day and was able to finish an at least reasonable way up. I do feel that I am over the worst of it just through a refusal to carry on this way. If short winning sessions and long losing ones are leaving me stressed (which they are) then I just as well play lots more reasonable length ones as I can't feel any worse than I do anyway! Also I have enough hands behind me now that even a heavy loss still keeps me well above 2bb/100 which is all I ever wanted to acheive at the level anyway.

[Stealthy]

[ QUOTE ]
if you lean towards playing too passively after booking a win, then by continuing, your passive play itself could cause you to lose.


[/ QUOTE ]

This has been me in the past but was able to recognise it immediately and end the session. I do not do this now and my nervousness at having a bad session does not affect my play of the hands. I still try and play a decent TAG game whatever the situation in terms of how well or badly I am doing. I also am largely tilt free and my game does not alter too much regardless of my standing in the game.