Best River Decision?

[Berge20]

Villian was fairly Loose-Passive

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($18.95)
MP ($28.60)
Button ($30.25)
SB ($38.45)
Hero ($21.25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero checks.

Flop: ($0.60) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $0.5</font>, UTG calls $0.50.

Standard

Turn: ($1.60) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1</font>, UTG calls $1.

Oh, two pair. Bet more Berge.

River: ($3.60) K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $4</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $19.5</font>

Best possible river card. He was either chasing the flush or perhaps has some random small pair that he thought was good. Didnt figure I could get much out of the later and anything I could stack would certainly bet on the river (be it a flush, a poorly played lower boat)

Thoughts?

Final Pot: $27.10

[SubaruSTiMike]

Question, does betting the turn a little more help? I would bet like 1.5 or something, but i guess it's not a big deal. If you're read is correct and he was on a flush draw, then the check is fine, but who leads here? As played raise much as much as you thikn he'll call. I think with a lot of villains, you want to over raise because I thikn we underestimate the times they fold the flushes. They are more likely to call with the nut flush on a paired board I thikn. I thikn this line is pretty standard, the way you palyed it.

[holdme]

Another thought is to throw out a halfpot blocky-looking thing, get min raised, and push.

[Mercman572]

Looks ok, I thikn just about anything that would call is going to bet when checked to, and he may even bluff some hands.

[SubaruSTiMike]

[ QUOTE ]
Another thought is to throw out a halfpot blocky-looking thing, get min raised, and push.

[/ QUOTE ]

you sir, are tricky, i like it. I haven't though of that, but a weakess blocking bet will show some weakness and if he's aggro enough with the nut flush he'll raise and you can insta push and he'll have to call.

[Mercman572]

[ QUOTE ]
Another thought is to throw out a halfpot blocky-looking thing, get min raised, and push.

[/ QUOTE ]

^^ This is FPS. This is 25NL man

[holdme]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another thought is to throw out a halfpot blocky-looking thing, get min raised, and push.

[/ QUOTE ]

^^ This is FPS. This is 25NL man

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know. It gets value out of the calling station even if he doesn't raise. And if he does have the flush and raises, BINGO!

[EMc]

I happen to like berges line, but holdme has an interesting view and I think neither are wrong.

[clownslayer2]

I never like checking the river. Place a value bet. 2 bucks say. he'll make a move if he has something.

[clownslayer2]

I really really like betting the river. how upset will you be if he straight checks it? alwyas always bet when u have the nuts on the river. PLEASE for the love of GOD

[Mercman572]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another thought is to throw out a halfpot blocky-looking thing, get min raised, and push.

[/ QUOTE ]

^^ This is FPS. This is 25NL man

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know. It gets value out of the calling station even if he doesn't raise. And if he does have the flush and raises, BINGO!

[/ QUOTE ]

"Blocking thingy" implies that you are inducing him to raise. That concept requires a certain level of hand reading ability (and aggression) that I just don't expect calling stations to have.

You won't induce a bluff raise here often enough for a small bet to be worth it, and hands that are going to raise are going to raise, but you get more value from said stations if you bet closer to pot

[Check_The_Nuts]

uhhh check/raise here=awesomeness.

end of thread.

[holdme]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Another thought is to throw out a halfpot blocky-looking thing, get min raised, and push.

[/ QUOTE ]

^^ This is FPS. This is 25NL man

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know. It gets value out of the calling station even if he doesn't raise. And if he does have the flush and raises, BINGO!

[/ QUOTE ]

"Blocking thingy" implies that you are inducing him to raise. That concept requires a certain level of hand reading ability (and aggression) that I just don't expect calling stations to have.

You won't induce a bluff raise here often enough for a small bet to be worth it, and hands that are going to raise are going to raise, but you get more value from said stations if you bet closer to pot

[/ QUOTE ]
I wasn't trying to imply that villain would bluff raise, I say pick the river number that you can get the most river value from since I don't know villains calling range in this place. Combine that with the question of what size river bet will he raise without a nut flush.
I definitely see your point, merc.

[kitaristi0]

[ QUOTE ]
I really really like betting the river. how upset will you be if he straight checks it? alwyas always bet when u have the nuts on the river. PLEASE for the love of GOD

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, checkraising can sometimes be far better than betting, even when you have the nuts. OPs hand I think is one of those spots.

Sure sometimes he checks behind, and you miss a value bet in this pot, but like poincaraux said in that fold KK preflop thread, we are trying to maximise EV and in the long run I think checkraising is better here.

[Check_The_Nuts]

fact: The ONLY way you can build a big pot OOP in an unraised pot is to check-raise one street. So he's gotta do it on the flop/turn/river. Otherwise he's definitely playing a small pot. This is one reason OOP suxors.

[ChipStorm]

Bet more on the turn. I'm value betting river, 1/2 to 2/3 pot, and praying for a raise.

[holdme]

[ QUOTE ]
fact: The ONLY way you can build a big pot OOP in an unraised pot is to check-raise one street. So he's gotta do it on the flop/turn/river. Otherwise he's definitely playing a small pot. This is one reason OOP suxors.

[/ QUOTE ]
huh? are we throwing a b/3b line out the window in any situation?

[wingchunflush]

Please bet the river, the small bet sounds good, but if he checks it you'll be sick to your stomach.

[Antinome]

[ QUOTE ]
uhhh check/raise here=awesomeness.

end of thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

I seriously need to add this line to my arsenal. It is soooo cool. I'm always like, pot, pot, push; or raise,c/rai; b3bai. booooring.