Why am I not playing at Cryptologic?

[aflaba2]

I play 5/10 at party. I don't know what I make in the long term, but for the sake of discussion let's say I make 1.5 BB per hundred hands playing 4 tables.

That's about 300 hands.
So my hourly rate is in the neighburhood of $45.
That's not bad.

I just surfed bonuswhores and checked out the bonuses, just for recreation. To my surprise the bonuses seem to be great!

At Bayou Poker they have unlimited bonuses that according to bonuswhores clear at a rate of $38 per hour when playing tables of 5/10.

At the Cryptologic network they have loads of bonuses every month that even though the bonuses have becomed harder still clear at a rate of $60 per hour.

So why am I not playing at Bayou or Cryptologic?

On both networks I can get practically unlimited bonuses that clear at

Bayou: $38
Cryptologic: $60

compared to my current win rate: $45

At Cryptologic I can even be a modest loser in the game and still improve my win rate!

So what do you say?

Am I missing something or are the bonuses as good as they seem?

[Ron Burgundy]

Go for it, just make sure you get rakeback at all the Cryptos. Bonuses and rakeback are good. Party is overrated.

Enjoy!

[rafct]

but the bonuses arent unlimited at crypto

[ohface]

What do you plan on doing for the rest of the month after clearing a couple hundred bucks in Crypto bonuses?

[aflaba2]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you plan on doing for the rest of the month after clearing a couple hundred bucks in Crypto bonuses?

[/ QUOTE ]

Play the rest on Bayou.

Actually I figured Bayou would probably be a better choise than Crypto.

No need for switching sites.
Easier opposition?

What do you think, Party or Bayou?

[thing85]

You might find quite a drop in win rate. I don't know your actual skill level, but you're giving up Party's softness and table selection. You certainly could succeed elsewhere, but don't be surprised if your results are not nearly as good as they are at Party. Also, the fact that you don't know your win rate makes me think you don't use Poker Tracker. I hope I'm wrong. If not, get it ASAP.

[pzhon]

I don't know about Bayou, but your estimate of $60/hour from 4-tabling (300 hands/hour) is way off.

Several Crypto skins offer GBP 5/table-hour for the first 5 hours you play. That's about $9/table-hour.

Other Crypto skins offer $0.05 for every pot raked 0.25, and $0.20 for every pot raked 1.00. Maybe you are imagining that 100% of your pots will be raked $1.00, but blind steals are not raked, and you will only get $0.05 for many other hands. I think you'll find that these clear more slowly than the hourly bonuses.

I like these bonuses, but they aren't worth $15/table-hour.

[aflaba2]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know about Bayou, but your estimate of $60/hour from 4-tabling (300 hands/hour) is way off.

Several Crypto skins offer GBP 5/table-hour for the first 5 hours you play. That's about $9/table-hour.

Other Crypto skins offer $0.05 for every pot raked 0.25, and $0.20 for every pot raked 1.00. Maybe you are imagining that 100% of your pots will be raked $1.00, but blind steals are not raked, and you will only get $0.05 for many other hands. I think you'll find that these clear more slowly than the hourly bonuses.

I like these bonuses, but they aren't worth $15/table-hour.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. I just took the numbers from bonuswhores (http://www.bonuswhores.com/interpoker.php). Maybe they haven't updated the numbers since the change took place.

Hope the Bayou numbers are correct. I'll probably try the site out at least.

[aflaba2]

[ QUOTE ]
You might find quite a drop in win rate. I don't know your actual skill level, but you're giving up Party's softness and table selection. You certainly could succeed elsewhere, but don't be surprised if your results are not nearly as good as they are at Party. Also, the fact that you don't know your win rate makes me think you don't use Poker Tracker. I hope I'm wrong. If not, get it ASAP.

[/ QUOTE ]

I use Poker Tracker. It's almost a sin not to, aint it? I played 10/20 for 8 months. Then after a 400 BB "downswing" I landed on almost break even on thelimit. I took kind of a break for 6 months and that's where I am now. I've started playing 5/10, but I've just began there so I don't know my win rate. I just think that 1.5 might be resonable.

Yeah, there are cons with bayou
-table selection
-stats

But 1 BB/tablehour...
Maybe it ain't worth it now when I think about it some more.

Is there any rake back on Boyou?

[ShivasIrons]

I think Crypto during the daytime when the Europeans are present is a goldmine. Very easy to beat. At night the full tables are rock gardens, but the short tables are very beatable. In addition to the bonuses, you can get rakeback. Also the bonuses aren't subtracted from your monthly MGR.

There aren't many full games going at Crypto above 2/4, so if you don't play shorthanded they are not the choice. Even shorthanded you will struggle to find 4 5/10 games going at once. That being said, Cryptos with bonus and rakeback (especially during the day) absolutely blows Party with no rakeback away IMO. Don't tell anyone though, it's a secret.

[morphd]

I only have a small sample size at Crypto but the rake is higher as well. I'm averaging almost $2 per pot at 5/10. It's 25 cents for each $5 I think. I don't play at Party so I don't know how that would compare but you'd have to take it into account.

I haven't played Bayou, but that's a Pokerroom skin as well, right? Rake is probably very high at 5/10 still and it's only 5 handed so it eats into you even more.

[RobDoral]

[ QUOTE ]

I haven't played Bayou, but that's a Pokerroom skin as well, right? Rake is probably very high at 5/10 still and it's only 5 handed so it eats into you even more.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are full ring tables at 5/10. Usually 6-8 at peak hours. 5 right now at 6:50 EST. The rake is capped at $3 so the higher rake that is an issue at lower levels is more or less negated.


The rest is not in reponse to your quote but a general comment:

Bayou's essentially bottomless bonus of 50% contributed rakeback is a pretty good deal for SH games.

The other PR skins that do the player points are better for full ring games if the rate is 10pts per $1 (essentially the standard now).

[mbishop]

The Crypto changes seem to be in the process of taking place. Check the BW forums.

[morphd]

I didn't even realize OP was playing full ring, my mistake. In that case it does seem like a good deal. However, Poker Network still seems to be expensive for shorthanded players.

As for Crypto, I don't think I've ever seen a full 5/10 table even going.

[AncientPC]

The number of players at tables is significantly lower than Party.

[Steve565]

The Crypto monthly bonuses are excellent. (Not unlimited, I guess you meant that for Bayou.) But as someone mentioned, you won't find that many 5/10 fixed games going on at Crypto. Usually one full ring game.

The bonus does clear really well (the few times I tracked it it was like $12/hour/table or so).

I play the $1/2 NL games there, mostly shorthanded. There are always many games, and the bonus clears at a reasoanble rate.

Bayou I'm less sure about, I stopped playing there because the bonus was clearing very very slowly. They have their own bonus system. The other PokerRoom skins have a high clearance rate, but the rake is so high your win rate will be affected. They take $2 when the pot hits $20, so it's double what you see at Party or Stars.

Plus they rake below $20 on the fixed games, so it's an enormous drain on the tables. Look at the $2/4, they rake a lot of sub $20 pots that don't get raked elsewhere.

But I would definitely look at the Crypto's.

[aflaba2]

I play short handed. I wans't clear about that.

I appreciate the advice. I'll try both crypto and bayou out. They seem to at least be worth a shot from what you're saying. Or probably even more than a just shot.

Someone wrote that Crypto is good at the times when Europeans (such as I) are awake. That's good for me and I'll start with trying it out at those times.

You guys are all swell, thanks!

[hhughes]

Dont forget about the bonuses available on the casino side of the Crypto's as well...

All offer a sign-up bonus plus most also give monthly bonuses, that even for a novice casino player can be profitable IMO.

FWIW

[gonzo787]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know about Bayou, but your estimate of $60/hour from 4-tabling (300 hands/hour) is way off.

Several Crypto skins offer GBP 5/table-hour for the first 5 hours you play. That's about $9/table-hour.

Other Crypto skins offer $0.05 for every pot raked 0.25, and $0.20 for every pot raked 1.00. Maybe you are imagining that 100% of your pots will be raked $1.00, but blind steals are not raked, and you will only get $0.05 for many other hands. I think you'll find that these clear more slowly than the hourly bonuses.

I like these bonuses, but they aren't worth $15/table-hour.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. I just took the numbers from bonuswhores (http://www.bonuswhores.com/interpoker.php). Maybe they haven't updated the numbers since the change took place.

Hope the Bayou numbers are correct. I'll probably try the site out at least.

[/ QUOTE ]

For the record, Interpoker's estimated full ring rates are $10.69 per hour. The biggest problem you will have is finding 4 full ring games at 5/10. If you can find a game at 5/10 full, you should be close to the hourly rate. FWIW, blind steals are accounted for in those rates (and not counted towards the hourly rate).