SilentNoise
12-09-2006, 04:46 AM
was doing pretty well 4tabling for a few months, then stepped up to 6tabling, now 9tabling sngs on stars for about 8months. my strategy was basically weaktight early..survive to pushbotting rounds and then push push. towards the end of my 8months i was starting to fiddle around with icm tools to see my leaks and got a bit better i think. found more opportunities to push n stuff.
however it seemed as if i didn't even really need to know icm that well to show a decent roi. 3-4people always busted pretty quick and the bubble everybody had pretty deep stacks (the regs im talking about).
Played cash for a while since time constraints at university which started meant i wasn't able to just sit down for hours playing. I'd play for a quick hour here, a quick hour there. The 2+2 mentality on 6max cash games is dont open limp. 22? raise. 910 in late position..raise..AK/JJ reraise. This is quite different to the strategy advocated in early blind levels in sngs.
When i came back to sngs, i swear that it was alot tougher. now it was very common to have 9players left at the 50/100 or 75/150..occasionally even the 100/200 level. it was all pretty much pushbotting (not a bad thing). but not only this..alot of people were pushing/calling correctly. something i wasn't used to. with tools like sngegt around where people dont even need to learn icm now..its just done for them..its hard to believe any of us have an edge over anybody who has the ability to find out about 2+2 and spend 50$ on sngegt to cheat for them. However sngegt only does this for the late stages. So if we dont have an edge in the late stages because everybody is playing the same..if we still have an edge in the sng at all..it must come from the early stages right?
But the early play advocated by the stt forum is so weaktight and transparent that it is hard to believe that any of us will exploit the edge we have. like 22 utg. limp. ok. MP/LP raises..we can make 12-13x raise amount. ok. call. what do you think MP/LP puts us on when we limp utg? looks like AQ..not even AJ. or a pocket pair. not a suited connector. if we give him any action...you think hes gonna pay us off with a missed AK or whatever? am i right in saying people suggest open limping hands like 22 on the button aswell? after playing alot of 6max cash.. i would never open limp 22 on the button, because i believe my postflop skills are superior to that of those in the blinds, so if the big blind calls and misses our 2/3rd or 3/4 cont bet will take it down if he misses / doesn't flop top pair. so we get some chips. the same thing goes for 10Js on the button in 6max cash. if we do that in a stt. since people are just setmining in sngs nowadays. we steal the blinds so often/take the pot with a cont bet it seems massively +EV.
I dont really see myself employing this until stt forum advocate doing this. nor do i see myself in the situation that much in 22s where there aren't loads of fish where a weaktight early / pushbot late strategy wont work well .. but it is becoming more and more common for people to use this strategy so do we need to start playing like this to continue to have an edge? Would it be wrong to start doing this until it becomes a neccessity?
Should we start working on higher levels of deception, like occasionally calling in the big blind with 72 off suit for our whole stack, without pot odds, so people think our calling ranges are very high so they start pushing less against us..stuff like that?
Im not worried ...im just curious what people would do. i guess if people felt
1) they didn't have an edge in the preflop game in late stages..and no edge in the postflop game in early stages. Then they have no edge in the game. So why play in a game with no edge?
If players feel they have no edge in the late stages, but an edge in the early stages...why not play a game in which you constantly have an edge at all stages throughout the game (ie. cash games)?
however it seemed as if i didn't even really need to know icm that well to show a decent roi. 3-4people always busted pretty quick and the bubble everybody had pretty deep stacks (the regs im talking about).
Played cash for a while since time constraints at university which started meant i wasn't able to just sit down for hours playing. I'd play for a quick hour here, a quick hour there. The 2+2 mentality on 6max cash games is dont open limp. 22? raise. 910 in late position..raise..AK/JJ reraise. This is quite different to the strategy advocated in early blind levels in sngs.
When i came back to sngs, i swear that it was alot tougher. now it was very common to have 9players left at the 50/100 or 75/150..occasionally even the 100/200 level. it was all pretty much pushbotting (not a bad thing). but not only this..alot of people were pushing/calling correctly. something i wasn't used to. with tools like sngegt around where people dont even need to learn icm now..its just done for them..its hard to believe any of us have an edge over anybody who has the ability to find out about 2+2 and spend 50$ on sngegt to cheat for them. However sngegt only does this for the late stages. So if we dont have an edge in the late stages because everybody is playing the same..if we still have an edge in the sng at all..it must come from the early stages right?
But the early play advocated by the stt forum is so weaktight and transparent that it is hard to believe that any of us will exploit the edge we have. like 22 utg. limp. ok. MP/LP raises..we can make 12-13x raise amount. ok. call. what do you think MP/LP puts us on when we limp utg? looks like AQ..not even AJ. or a pocket pair. not a suited connector. if we give him any action...you think hes gonna pay us off with a missed AK or whatever? am i right in saying people suggest open limping hands like 22 on the button aswell? after playing alot of 6max cash.. i would never open limp 22 on the button, because i believe my postflop skills are superior to that of those in the blinds, so if the big blind calls and misses our 2/3rd or 3/4 cont bet will take it down if he misses / doesn't flop top pair. so we get some chips. the same thing goes for 10Js on the button in 6max cash. if we do that in a stt. since people are just setmining in sngs nowadays. we steal the blinds so often/take the pot with a cont bet it seems massively +EV.
I dont really see myself employing this until stt forum advocate doing this. nor do i see myself in the situation that much in 22s where there aren't loads of fish where a weaktight early / pushbot late strategy wont work well .. but it is becoming more and more common for people to use this strategy so do we need to start playing like this to continue to have an edge? Would it be wrong to start doing this until it becomes a neccessity?
Should we start working on higher levels of deception, like occasionally calling in the big blind with 72 off suit for our whole stack, without pot odds, so people think our calling ranges are very high so they start pushing less against us..stuff like that?
Im not worried ...im just curious what people would do. i guess if people felt
1) they didn't have an edge in the preflop game in late stages..and no edge in the postflop game in early stages. Then they have no edge in the game. So why play in a game with no edge?
If players feel they have no edge in the late stages, but an edge in the early stages...why not play a game in which you constantly have an edge at all stages throughout the game (ie. cash games)?