50NL - Second barrel

[Abramovic]

What do people think of firing a second bet on the turn? In this case when you're sure its a blank, is it worth doing?

PokerRoom No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($33.20)
Hero ($49.00)
Button ($45.55)
SB ($35.25)
BB ($28.60)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/diamond.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/spade.gif.
UTG calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.5, 3 folds, UTG calls $2.

Flop: ($5.75) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/club.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/club.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/heart.gif (2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero bets $4, UTG calls $4.

Turn: ($13.75) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/images/smiles/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $10...

Final Pot: $23.75

[Unknown Soldier]

if utg can fold 55+ then yeah its worth doing. o/w its terrible

[Abramovic]

Is firing a second bet on the turn a play you will make often in 50NL?

[Tiki]

If UTG is the worst player in the world and three weak-tighties are sitting behind me I might make this sort of play PF. In which case I wouldn't even fire one barrel post-flop but might consider betting my K-high for value.
In the hand in question, I'd have to have to have some sort of read before making this sort of move. If I was holding an OP with the flushing/drawing board given above then I'd be making a PSB on the flop for sure. I'd also of course make a PSB if I was merely repping an OP. $10 seems the right size on the turn though.

Power to you if you got him to fold.

[ama0330]

Not without a read, no
With a read, yes

For eg if you were playing me in this hand I would push over you with ATC because I know you dont have either the FD or the deuce so its pretty obvious that you either have AA or nothing. If I were villain and I knew you were 2p2 I'd push over you. If I were hero in this hand, I'd need a read that I wasn't playing against someone like me.

If that makes sense.

I would also fold this preflop.

[Abramovic]

I feel like Im being outplayed by a lot of players at 50NL. Its spots like this where I find myself with nothing, and checking the turns results in losing the hand.

[ama0330]

This is happening because you are putting yourself in difficult situations which you can't yet escape because you are unsure of yourself post-flop. You should be aiming to make decisions early in the hand which will avoid the need to make an annoying laydown/check-fold like this which may well tilt you.

My first recommendation in this avoidance of bad spots is to tighten your raising range in EP, no way should you be raising KTo from here.

My second would be to play really tight early in your sessions to get the table read. This will let you know important things like:

- Are the blinds tight enough for me to raise ATC on the button?
- Is the table tight enough for me to be raising liberally?
- How does each player on the table respond to my cbets?

etc etc.

You need to establish all these things before you try making marginal plays like this or you are going to keep getting yourself in trouble.

[ama0330]

FWIW I would put villain on a range of like AA-22, and broadway, evidenced by the limp overcall. Whether he will fold, well you need to know this!

[Abramovic]

It seems to me about half the players at 50nl will call my flop bets just to bluff the turn. This makes it very difficult to play against them.

[Tiki]

[ QUOTE ]
This is happening because you are putting yourself in difficult situations which you can't yet escape because you are unsure of yourself post-flop. You should be aiming to make decisions early in the hand which will avoid the need to make an annoying laydown/check-fold like this which may well tilt you.

My first recommendation in this avoidance of bad spots is to tighten your raising range in EP, no way should you be raising KTo from here.

My second would be to play really tight early in your sessions to get the table read. This will let you know important things like:

- Are the blinds tight enough for me to raise ATC on the button?
- Is the table tight enough for me to be raising liberally?
- How does each player on the table respond to my cbets?

etc etc.

You need to establish all these things before you try making marginal plays like this or you are going to keep getting yourself in trouble.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very well said.

[Abramovic]

I find the average player's VPIP is about 50-65% at 50NL. Much higher than 25NL. Also theyre AFs are far higher too.

[ama0330]

[ QUOTE ]
It seems to me about half the players at 50nl will call my flop bets just to bluff the turn. This makes it very difficult to play against them.

[/ QUOTE ]

So why do you keep betting the flop with air, and no plan as to what happens when they DO bluff?

See what I am getting at, you have to respond and adapt to their play.

[Abramovic]

Yea this is where the difference is between this and 25NL. Should I reduce my calling standards post flop against these players, and try to call down the bluffs, or continue what Im doing and wait to hit a hand (I have been pretty card dead recently).

[Ra_]

I agree that with out a read this is bad. If the turn were an Ace or Queen it would be ok.

Chances are villan has a draw or 55-99, and way to many will call here with these.

Edit: I don't like the PF raise either. If the remain people to act have low pfr%, I don't mind a limp behind. Otherwise fold.