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MaxWeiss
12-04-2006, 09:40 PM
I would like to host an event in an auditorium at my school with an "it's okay to not believe" theme where I will lecture for a bit, show some videos of Dawkins and Harris, and generally try to convince agnostics that it's okay to be an atheist, for those that really don't believe but haven't come out for social reasons.

I would like to not spend too much money, say no more than $500, and would like to make it a happy and festive type of affair, with cheap copies of Dawkins' book and Harris' book, and maybe some free food to eat while we watch either one of the lecture videos of Harris or Dawkins or possible The Root of All Evil video. I could also be available for questions or debate but I'd like to try and keep it as more of a social gathering than me me me talk talk talk. Of course if you all think that I would be more successful just lecturing and showing videos and debating, I am up for whatever. I just want to get the message out, and have a specific date and time widely known where I am doing it--don't care if it's a social gathering or a classroom lecture type of deal, but like I said, I want to create a happy social atmosphere.

Ideas, suggestions, etc...

Planning to have it at the end of the spring semester (when I finally graduate!!!), and I will put ads in the school paper and all around campus during the semester.


Cross posted on OOT and SciMathPhil.

madnak
12-04-2006, 09:46 PM
Sounds interesting. I'm thinking about starting an atheist club at my school someday. Get the right audience - you want people who are interested, not people who want to play pinata with the atheist. Avoid the hardline stuff, make it light and fun. Include some of the more amusing or funny clips/statistics/stories. Don't make it sound like a "cause," but at the same time take it seriously (if that makes sense). Be prepared for questions from Christians, because no matter what you do they'll be there.

I'd probably make it a short presentation, no more than 30 minutes, and then socialization. Have some refreshments, you can feed a lot of people with $500. Other than that I don't know - you don't want it to be one of those painful events where everyone's being too polite and nobody wants to be there, but you probably aren't looking for a big party or anything. Get pizza and drinks, make it a pretty laid-back environment, maybe tell some jokes or something during the presentation to set the mood, and I don't know... Bring bean bags? Everyone likes bean bags.

benjdm
12-04-2006, 11:40 PM
I don't have a whole lot of suggestions, but I do have a different forum to point you to where you could get some great answers:

Positive Atheism & Secular Activism (http://www.iidb.org/vbb/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=30&f=81)

DougShrapnel
12-05-2006, 12:28 AM
It's an interesting idea. And often it's referred to as hearding cats. However, don't let that disuade you. From wat i understand about Harris' book. It is an excellent choice to have at your gathering. I'd retool the name tho. I don't have any suggestions that are particularly good. I would look at some of the current solgans churchs use, and spin it. Got Jesus? Becomes Got Reason? The Way, The Turth, The Life. Atheism, The Truth, Your Life. And so on.

HeavilyArmed
12-05-2006, 01:49 AM
[ QUOTE ]
... and generally try to convince agnostics that it's okay to be an atheist...

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you feel the need to convince anyone? I can understand the reasons for organized religion to prostelitize but your reasons can be nothing save the very most selfish. Grow up.

Skidoo
12-05-2006, 01:57 AM
The irony is too funny.

An atheist pretends to something like certainty about the existence of God, something only God could possibly have.

Prodigy54321
12-05-2006, 01:59 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
... and generally try to convince agnostics that it's okay to be an atheist...

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you feel the need to convince anyone? I can understand the reasons for organized religion to prostelitize but your reasons can be nothing save the very most selfish. Grow up.

[/ QUOTE ]

selfish like trying to help to stop tremendous amounts of pain and suffering?

Prodigy54321
12-05-2006, 02:01 AM
[ QUOTE ]
The irony is too funny.

An atheist pretends to something like certainty about the existence of God, something only God could possibly have.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have certainly that the FSM does not exist...

If I try to help followers of the FSM to understand...is that "too funny" as well?

Skidoo
12-05-2006, 02:07 AM
Who cares about the FSM? That's a classic canard introduced without proof of equivalence.

luckyme
12-05-2006, 02:10 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Who cares about the FSM? That's a classic canard introduced without proof of equivalence.

[/ QUOTE ]

other than the equivalence of likelihood.

luckyme

Skidoo
12-05-2006, 02:17 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who cares about the FSM? That's a classic canard introduced without proof of equivalence.

[/ QUOTE ]

other than the equivalence of likelihood.

luckyme

[/ QUOTE ]

To use a logical shortcut through such an assertion, the burden of proof is on you.

chezlaw
12-05-2006, 02:20 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who cares about the FSM? That's a classic canard introduced without proof of equivalence.

[/ QUOTE ]

other than the equivalence of likelihood.

luckyme

[/ QUOTE ]

To use a logical shortcut through such an assertion, the burden of proof is in you.

[/ QUOTE ]
That should be on the banner promoting the event.

chez

HeavilyArmed
12-05-2006, 02:22 AM
[ QUOTE ]
selfish like trying to help to stop tremendous amounts of pain and suffering?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wanna do just that? Join the Israeli army and hope you get to kill some of the Hizzbollah murderers.

Prodigy54321
12-05-2006, 02:23 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Who cares about the FSM? That's a classic canard introduced without proof of equivalence.

[/ QUOTE ]

the FSM followers???

also..I agree that college kid can't be certain of anything...although I don't see where he claimed he was...

but..1) you rarely (probably never) need 100% certainty to do anything..so I don't see your point..this is of course not a case where his actions are dependent on 100% certainty..

2) god cannot be 100% sure of anything either...do you see why?

Prodigy54321
12-05-2006, 02:24 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
selfish like trying to help to stop tremendous amounts of pain and suffering?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wanna do just that? Join the Israeli army and hope you get to kill some of the Hizzbollah murderers.

[/ QUOTE ]

is that supposed to be a point?

Prodigy54321
12-05-2006, 02:26 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who cares about the FSM? That's a classic canard introduced without proof of equivalence.

[/ QUOTE ]

other than the equivalence of likelihood.

luckyme

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, I place the likelihood of a god..and even the christian god specifically..at a higher probability than the FSM, but that is beside the point...hell, the conclusion of the argument and my analogy is whether or not it is "too funny" /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Skidoo
12-05-2006, 02:31 AM
My point is that when you ridicule the followers of the FSM, if you want those arguments to apply across the board, it's up to you to demonstrate such applicability.

HeavilyArmed
12-05-2006, 02:33 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
selfish like trying to help to stop tremendous amounts of pain and suffering?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wanna do just that? Join the Israeli army and hope you get to kill some of the Hizzbollah murderers.

[/ QUOTE ]

is that supposed to be a point?

[/ QUOTE ]

It has a certain cause-and-effect connection to reality. You should try it sometime.

Prodigy54321
12-05-2006, 02:58 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
selfish like trying to help to stop tremendous amounts of pain and suffering?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wanna do just that? Join the Israeli army and hope you get to kill some of the Hizzbollah murderers.

[/ QUOTE ]

is that supposed to be a point?

[/ QUOTE ]

It has a certain cause-and-effect connection to reality. You should try it sometime.

[/ QUOTE ]

whatever the point was supposed to be..I don't get it.

Prodigy54321
12-05-2006, 03:00 AM
[ QUOTE ]
My point is that when you ridicule the followers of the FSM, if you want those arguments to apply across the board, it's up to you to demonstrate such applicability.

[/ QUOTE ]

perhaps you could clarify the point you were trying to make in your original statement then?

Skidoo
12-05-2006, 03:19 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My point is that when you ridicule the followers of the FSM, if you want those arguments to apply across the board, it's up to you to demonstrate such applicability.

[/ QUOTE ]

perhaps you could clarify the point you were trying to make in your original statement then?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure which one you mean. I never said I didn't like spaghetti.

Prodigy54321
12-05-2006, 03:21 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My point is that when you ridicule the followers of the FSM, if you want those arguments to apply across the board, it's up to you to demonstrate such applicability.

[/ QUOTE ]

perhaps you could clarify the point you were trying to make in your original statement then?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure which one you mean. I never said I didn't like spaghetti.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

this one

[ QUOTE ]
An atheist pretends to something like certainty about the existence of God, something only God could possibly have.

[/ QUOTE ]

ojc02
12-05-2006, 03:24 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
... and generally try to convince agnostics that it's okay to be an atheist...

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would you feel the need to convince anyone? I can understand the reasons for organized religion to prostelitize but your reasons can be nothing save the very most selfish. Grow up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Before you tell other people to grow up you should be sure that what you're saying isn't totally ridiculous. And learn to spell, moran.

Skidoo
12-05-2006, 03:52 AM
An atheist makes an affirmative assertion that is totally outside his ability to prove.

Prodigy54321
12-05-2006, 04:02 AM
[ QUOTE ]
An atheist makes an affirmative assertion that is totally outside his ability to prove.

[/ QUOTE ]

what assertion is that?

Skidoo
12-05-2006, 04:13 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
An atheist makes an affirmative assertion that is totally outside his ability to prove.

[/ QUOTE ]

what assertion is that?

[/ QUOTE ]

He denies God exists.

ShakeZula06
12-05-2006, 04:17 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
selfish like trying to help to stop tremendous amounts of pain and suffering?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wanna do just that? Join the Israeli army and hope you get to kill some of the Hizzbollah murderers.

[/ QUOTE ]
Pointing out how religion causes pain and suffering, probably not helping out your cause to much....

ojc02
12-05-2006, 04:18 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
An atheist makes an affirmative assertion that is totally outside his ability to prove.

[/ QUOTE ]

what assertion is that?

[/ QUOTE ]

He denies God exists.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhh, he didn't actually say that...

[ QUOTE ]
"it's okay to not believe"

[/ QUOTE ]

That's all he said.

Prodigy54321
12-05-2006, 04:31 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
An atheist makes an affirmative assertion that is totally outside his ability to prove.

[/ QUOTE ]

what assertion is that?

[/ QUOTE ]

He denies God exists.

[/ QUOTE ]

sure, I doubt he would say that he is certain that a god does not exist..so I'm sure that you are misrepresenting him..

and he would not say that he is certian that the FSM does not exist...for the same reasons that he can't be sure that a god does not exist

so what?..why is that a problem for you?

Skidoo
12-05-2006, 04:40 AM
Ojc and Prodigy:

My argument is against those making an affirmative denial they cannot prove and those trying to sneak in a FSM canard to make their point for them.

Prodigy54321
12-05-2006, 04:45 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Ojc and Prodigy:

My argument is against those making an affirmative denial they cannot prove and those trying to sneak in a FSM canard to make their point for them.

[/ QUOTE ]

no one that I know of is making that affirmative denial

ojc02
12-05-2006, 04:51 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Ojc and Prodigy:

My argument is against those making an affirmative denial they cannot prove and those trying to sneak in a FSM canard to make their point for them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, these are two separate points and it's clear that the OP is proposing neither.

To address your points (as I'm sure has been done many times before):

Point 1: One cannot disprove the existence of God - as you said, anyone trying to do this would be wrong.

Point 2: You also cannot disprove the existence of the fsm FOR THE SAME REASON! That's why the burden of proof is on the the proposer of these concepts, NOT the skeptic.

MaxWeiss
12-05-2006, 02:33 PM
Though I didn't say it (in this post) much of what you claim about me to believe is true. I personally believe 100% that there is no god. I can only prove god to be on the same order of magnitude as his holiness, the FSM, though slightly more probable given that god is more widely known. All of these probabilities are, however, so freakishly small that I simply round to zero percent. The probability of any of these creatures is roughly equivalent to the probability of ANY INFINITE NUMBER of things I can imagine and stipulate as unprovable. Therefore, they lie at the bottom of a limit approaching zero, and are, effectively, and physically, to any significant digits you like to use, ZERO.

However, as was pointed out, the burden of proof does NOT lie on me to explain why I DON'T believe in some magic, omnipotent, omniscient being in another plane of existence which has no evidence and is defined to be unprovable.

**DO YOU SEE WHY**

But we get sidetracked. I am trying to plan an event, given that I already truly believe what I say I believe and that I can clearly justify it in a manner which I believe I can use the persuade others.

This event is important to me because I also believe (based on accumulated data) that many agnostics truly don't believe in god but are afraid to admit it to others, or have even convinced themselves that they are more unsure than they truly are. I believe that by attempting to make non-belief socially acceptable (through an event like this) I can HELP many people be intellectually more honest with themselves and enrich their lives with that. I will point out that I am NOT trying to get support for anything, and that while I am a firm atheist, my only goal is for the audience to be TRUE to themselves. Given that I am targeting agnostics, I think that should this occur, most will very likely affirm non-belief. I am not trying to recruit people to atheism, but I am trying to free their minds from dogma and other road-blocks to clear thought--which I think will allow for a side effect of conversion to outright atheism.

There you have it.

Skidoo
12-05-2006, 03:10 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I can only prove god to be on the same order of magnitude as his holiness, the FSM, though slightly more probable given that god is more widely known.

[/ QUOTE ]

Show us your hand then. What proof?

HeavilyArmed
12-05-2006, 03:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
And learn to spell, moran.

[/ QUOTE ]

Funniest sentence ever.

HeavilyArmed
12-05-2006, 03:41 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
selfish like trying to help to stop tremendous amounts of pain and suffering?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wanna do just that? Join the Israeli army and hope you get to kill some of the Hizzbollah murderers.

[/ QUOTE ]
Pointing out how religion causes pain and suffering, probably not helping out your cause to much....

[/ QUOTE ]

There's only one religion causing that specific pain. I think it's totally dysfunctional.

Sephus
12-05-2006, 03:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And learn to spell, moran.

[/ QUOTE ]

Funniest sentence ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

ironically, it's only funny to you because you don't "get" the joke. if you actually got the joke it wouldn't be very funny at all.

now is when you lie and say you knew he did it on purpose and were just being sarcastic.

ojc02
12-05-2006, 07:37 PM
Stole my thunder /images/graemlins/smile.gif

ojc02
12-05-2006, 07:42 PM
Yeah, sorry for responding to the attempted thread hijack.

For your event, I commend you for your effort and hope it goes really well. I wish there had been an event like that for me back in the day. It would've helped me get to where I am now faster.

g/l!

theweatherman
12-05-2006, 08:36 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I can only prove god to be on the same order of magnitude as his holiness, the FSM, though slightly more probable given that god is more widely known.

[/ QUOTE ]

Show us your hand then. What proof?

[/ QUOTE ]

The FSM is mentioned in a book. Thats about it for proof of most Gods.

surftheiop
12-05-2006, 08:38 PM
Wasnt there a thread awhile back were all the "atheists" decided they were technicaly agnostics?

ojc02
12-05-2006, 09:06 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Wasnt there a thread awhile back were all the "atheists" decided they were technicaly agnostics?

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't speak for all, but I am still an atheist. I will quote the best post from that thread (by douglas core):

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
... people who say they are "certain" are wrong. Unless you know how the universe came to be, you must allow some chance for any possibility. ... You just can't know with 100% certainty.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is incorrect. The concept of "certainty" is used to describe the state of one's knowledge. It cannot be used without regard to this state. When one considers the full state of one's knowledge, one's conclusions are certain. If at a later time one's knowledge is expanded in such a way as to change previous conclusions, one can be certain of the new, different conclusions. There is no contradiction here because the two certainties are inextricably tied to two separate states of knowledge.

Note how certainty is different from making a statement about the nature of existence. Two people with different contexts can be certain of an aspect of nature in two directly contradictory senses. Both are truthful (and right) to say that they are certain if both have reviewed the full context of their knowledge. But since contradictions do not exist in nature (I am certain of it), one of their contexts must be too limited to lead to truth about nature. When they're brought together and their two contexts are enlarged, such that each has the knowledge of the other, then both should become certain of the same thing. They were certain before, and now they are again. To summarize: certainty is a concept of consciousness used to describe the state of your logical conclusions in regard to all of your knowledge.

I am not omniscient. But within the context of my knowledge, I am certain that neither god nor gods exist. I allow for the possibility that my knowledge on the subject may later be expanded. Until that time, I am an Atheist.

[/ QUOTE ]

Says it all.

RJT
12-05-2006, 09:18 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
And learn to spell, moran.

[/ QUOTE ]

Funniest sentence ever.

[/ QUOTE ]

ironically, it's only funny to you because you don't "get" the joke. if you actually got the joke it wouldn't be very funny at all.

now is when you lie and say you knew he did it on purpose and were just being sarcastic.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, the moron/moran thing is an old running joke in 2+2. Older than NotReady* . I wasn’t aware of it the first time I corrected one for spelling it moran.

*( I joke to my buddy NR because I just turned 50 and can now joke about others being old. He knows I consider him a friend - even though we have never met - so I can joke with him.)

vhawk01
12-05-2006, 09:30 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
selfish like trying to help to stop tremendous amounts of pain and suffering?

[/ QUOTE ]

Wanna do just that? Join the Israeli army and hope you get to kill some of the Hizzbollah murderers.

[/ QUOTE ]

is that supposed to be a point?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, along the lines of "Why would you give that guy a dollar when THERE ARE STARVING KIDS IN AFRICA OMG!!"

madnak
12-05-2006, 11:58 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Wasnt there a thread awhile back were all the "atheists" decided they were technicaly agnostics?

[/ QUOTE ]

Many of the atheists here are agnostics, including myself. The terms aren't mutually exclusive.

thylacine
12-06-2006, 10:07 PM
These people can advise you on starting up freethought, etc. type organizations on campus.

http://www.campusfreethought.org/

evank15
12-07-2006, 05:10 AM
At a university you'd think most of the students would be atheists anyway.

Here you'd be more likely to find a "it's okay to believe" rally than the opposite. Just not that many believers, and anybody that is is looked at funny.

vhawk01
12-07-2006, 09:36 AM
[ QUOTE ]
At a university you'd think most of the students would be atheists anyway.

Here you'd be more likely to find a "it's okay to believe" rally than the opposite. Just not that many believers, and anybody that is is looked at funny.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are kidding, right? While perhaps atheism might be over-repped at universities compared to the general population, it is still far, far less than 50%.

revots33
12-07-2006, 11:04 AM
[ QUOTE ]
This event is important to me because I also believe (based on accumulated data) that many agnostics truly don't believe in god but are afraid to admit it to others, or have even convinced themselves that they are more unsure than they truly are. I believe that by attempting to make non-belief socially acceptable (through an event like this) I can HELP many people be intellectually more honest with themselves and enrich their lives with that. I will point out that I am NOT trying to get support for anything, and that while I am a firm atheist, my only goal is for the audience to be TRUE to themselves. Given that I am targeting agnostics, I think that should this occur, most will very likely affirm non-belief. I am not trying to recruit people to atheism, but I am trying to free their minds from dogma and other road-blocks to clear thought--which I think will allow for a side effect of conversion to outright atheism.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well said and I think the overall idea is admirable, but...

Most agnostics are for all intents and purposes athiests anyway. To me it is more semantics than anything else. Saying, "I don't believe", and saying "I can't believe without proof" are really the same when you KNOW proof is not forthcoming.

Agnostics are athiests who don't like the sound of the word athiest IMO. So while I applaud your desire to encourage intellectual honesty, I think your event may be "preaching to the choir", so to speak.

That being said, if it helps people (both believers and non-) more carefully examine what they believe and why, that can't be a bad thing.

evank15
12-07-2006, 08:59 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At a university you'd think most of the students would be atheists anyway.

Here you'd be more likely to find a "it's okay to believe" rally than the opposite. Just not that many believers, and anybody that is is looked at funny.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are kidding, right? While perhaps atheism might be over-repped at universities compared to the general population, it is still far, far less than 50%.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where do you go to school?

At my school, I would be surprised if more than 15% of the student population considered themselves "theists".

In my program, I'd be surprised if there was more than 5%.

Atheism and free thought dominate.

vhawk01
12-07-2006, 09:46 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At a university you'd think most of the students would be atheists anyway.

Here you'd be more likely to find a "it's okay to believe" rally than the opposite. Just not that many believers, and anybody that is is looked at funny.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are kidding, right? While perhaps atheism might be over-repped at universities compared to the general population, it is still far, far less than 50%.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where do you go to school?

At my school, I would be surprised if more than 15% of the student population considered themselves "theists".

In my program, I'd be surprised if there was more than 5%.

Atheism and free thought dominate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Admittedly I went to school in the midwest (and actually a Catholic school but majority weren't Catholic) but I think its very unlikely that 85% of your campus is atheist/agnostic. I could be wrong, but like 95%+ of Americans believe in God.

benjdm
12-07-2006, 09:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I could be wrong, but like 95%+ of Americans believe in God.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is not true.

Harris Poll - Belief in Decline (http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/printerfriend/index.asp?PID=707)

They asked identical questions in 2003 and 2006. In 2003, 79% of Americans believed in God, 9% believed there was no God, and 12% answered not sure. In 2006, only 73% of Americans believed in God, 11% believed there was no God, and 16% answered not sure.

vhawk01
12-07-2006, 10:14 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I could be wrong, but like 95%+ of Americans believe in God.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is not true.

Harris Poll - Belief in Decline (http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/printerfriend/index.asp?PID=707)

They asked identical questions in 2003 and 2006. In 2003, 79% of Americans believed in God, 9% believed there was no God, and 12% answered not sure. In 2006, only 73% of Americans believed in God, 11% believed there was no God, and 16% answered not sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

Huh. I must have some old data (or my memory sucks, which is more likely), I apologize.

vhawk01
12-07-2006, 10:18 PM
Although it does say that 50% of college graduates are 'absolutely certain' there is a God, and 64% of college grads believe in God, so I think my point stands, if slightly less firmly.

I am now LESS shocked that evan's school was 85% agnostic/atheist, but still shocked.

benjdm
12-07-2006, 10:34 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Huh. I must have some old data (or my memory sucks, which is more likely), I apologize.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, numbers get thrown around like that quite often. Typically only 5% of Americans will self-identify as atheists; therefore the other 95% are assumed theists. These polls went into more detail and got a more accurate picture. No apology necessary.

evank15
12-08-2006, 04:25 AM
I go to a secular school in a secular region in a (compared to the US anyway) secular country. I only know one religious person, and he doesn't even go to church.

Everyday at 4:20 a big group of students get together and light up in the quad. That's about all you need to know about my school. Oh, and the (political) riding the school is in is NDP (borderline commies).

The school district outlawed the playing of the daily national anthem in our schools (many years ago) because it contains the word "God" in it.

It really is a left wing paradise, which I am really proud of.

madnak
12-08-2006, 08:10 AM
Things are very different in the US.

Insp. Clue!So?
12-08-2006, 12:24 PM
Get in touch with these guys:

http://www.campusinquirer.org

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It's back-to-school time, which not only means taking advantage of the latest sales (as our radios and TVs tell us to do), but also gearing up for another challenging year of brain-busting classes during the day, homework and projects at night, discussion, and, somewhere in there, learning a thing or two. Here at the Center for Inquiry we're also gearing up for another year of education and outreach, packed full of writing articles and press releases; organizing lectures, seminars, and events at college campuses across North America; launching and coordinating new campus and community groups; running conferences; producing a popular podcast; publishing over a dozen magazines and journals; researching, designing, reading, implementing, publicizing, editing...the list goes on. Not only are these things "action words that look good on a resume," they're also important for spreading the word and fulfilling our mission -- to promote reason, science, and freedom of inquiry in all areas of human endeavor, especially when it comes to the "sacred cow" issues of society.

In a special video address at this summer's Student Leadership Conference, Richard Dawkins announced CFI's new Campaign for Free Inquiry, through which we'll bring some of the leading minds in the fields of humanism, biblical scholarship, medicine, evolutionary biology, history, and paranormal research to campuses across North America for debates, lectures, and presentations on a wide range of topics. Some of the events we already have lined up for the fall are listed in this newsletter.

The college campus is one of the most important places to defend freedom of inquiry, which is threatened both by fundamentalist religionists who try to get laws passed in order to insulate their worldview in the classroom, as well as by those on the postmodernist left who attack the methods of science and reason by insisting that all truths are equally true. These ideas are contrary to our experience, however; we don't go to college to put on blinders against ideas that don't agree with our own, and believing that the earth is flat doesn't make it so.

Colleges and universities aren't just there to give degrees that might land us higher-paying jobs (although that definitely is a perk). One of the greatest benefits of higher education is the opportunity to expose ourselves to different viewpoints, values, and beliefs. If we wanted simply to reinforce what we think, it is easy enough to only read books that support our views, or to spend time only with people who think similarly. However, this is not what it means to be "educated," nor does it simply mean being familiar with the great works of literature, knowing what the great scientists did, and being able to solve a math problem or two. The goal of the university should include teaching critical thinking skills, challenging the individual, providing opportunities for intellectual growth, and exposing students to new ideas and unfamiliar perspectives. These goals cannot be achieved if we limit the free expression of ideas, even highly controversial ones, nor can they be achieved if we shut down our process of questioning, out of fear of stepping on someone else's, or our own, ideological toes. But we shouldn't fear these challenges and inquiries, because they are the cornerstone of not only education and knowledge, but of freedom.

It is for this that the Center for Inquiry does what it does. If we're not able to do these things on the campuses, if not at the college and university, then where will they be done?

Debbie Goddard
Field Organizer
Center for Inquiry On Campus

Tell A Friend
Do you know that according to a new poll by the University of Akron, for the first time, over 10% of Americans self-identified explicitly as secular, humanist, atheist, agnostic, or "Bright," not including the previously polled category of "unchurched."

This is a significant minority of Americans, and we argue it is time to stand up and be counted on the side of science and reason. Help us stand up against the purveyors of unreason in our culture by helping us spread the word.

Please send this newsletter to someone you think may be interested in the evidence-based, secular, scientific outlook that CFI advances. This can be done easily using our Tell a Friend function by clicking here.


CFI Discussion Forums
The Center for Inquiry is pleased to announce our new discussion forums at http://www.cfi-forums.org. The forums are home to a growing online community of supporters, activists, and other like-minded individuals who discuss everything from current events to religion and the paranormal. We even have a forum dedicated just to campus freethought activism.

CFI-Forums.org is a great place to meet friends, stay informed, and share ideas with other student activists.

Current topics include: free will, the Muhammad cartoons, and the historicity of Jesus.

We encourage all Campus Inquirer subscribers to register and take part in our growing online community!



Join - Subscribe - Donate
In This Issue
Message from Debbie Goddard
Tell a Friend
CFI Forums
Upcoming Events
New CFI Campus Groups
Upcoming Campus Visits
Featured Book
Dawkins Book Tour
Point of Inquiry
Campaign for Free Inquiry
Volunteer Opportunities
New Campus Organizer
News of Note

Upcoming Events
September 16 at 8:00 p.m.
Role of Religion in Society
Paul Kurtz
CFI Community of Naples
Hilton Hotel
Naples, Florida

October 23rd at 7:15 p.m.
The Immorality of Religious Ethics
R. Joseph Hoffmann
CFI Community of Miami
University of Miami
Miami, Florida

October 29
Why There Really Is No God
Edward Tabash
IUPUI Freethinkers
IUPUI Campus Lecture Hall
Indianapolis, IN

December 7th
The War on Christmas
Tom Flynn
Campus Atheists & Secular Humanists
University of Minnesota
Minneapolis, MN

For more information on any of these events please, contact Thomas Donnelly at tdonnelly@centerforinquiry.net.

New Campus Groups
Sixteen new campus groups have formed or are in the process of forming since June 1st, 2006:

University of Toronto, Scarborough Campus
Scarborough, ON

Ryerson University
Toronto ON

York University
Toronto ON

Carleton University
Ottawa, ON

University of Northern Iowa
Cedar Falls IA US Air Force Academy
Colorado Springs, CO

University of Missouri Kansas City
Kanas City MO

Chatham College
Pittsburgh, PA

Columbus State Community College
Columbus, OH

Broward Community College
Fort Lauderdale, FL

Purdue University North Central
Laporte, IN

Arcadia University
Philadelphia, PA

IUPUI Freethinkers
Indionapolis, IN

Murphy High School
Mobile , AL

Woodbridge High School
Irvine, CA

Clemson University
Clemson, SC

If you would like to work with the Center for Inquiry to start a freethought group at your school (and receive a free box of educational and promotional materials), or to get involved with an existing group, go to http://www.campusinquirer.org


Fall 2006 Campus Visits!
Center for Inquiry staff (along with staff of the Council for Secular Humanism and CSICOP) will be visiting numerous campuses during the fall of 2006.



September 14-16 Long Island area campuses, such as SUNY Stony Brook
September 22-25 North East Ohio area campuses, such as Case Western Reserve University and the University of Akron
October 6-8 Pittsburgh Area campuses, such as University of Pittsburgh and Carnegie Mellon University
October 14-15 Austin area campuses, such as the University of Texas at Austin
October 19-23 LA area campuses, such as UCLA and the University of Southern California
October 19-23 Miami area campuses, such as Miami University
October 29 Indiana University - Purdue University Indianapolis
November 4-6 Chicago area campuses, such as the University of Illinois, Chicago
November 28 - December 3rd Florida area campuses, in cities including Daytona Beach, Fort Lauderdale, Miami, Naples, Tampa, and Tallahassee.
December 2 Chicago area campuses, such as Northwestern University
December 3-5 Wisconsin area campuses, such as University of Wisconsin campuses in Madison and Oshkosh
December 6-7 Minnesota area campuses, such as the University of Minnesota - Minneapolis
December 9-12 Tucson area campuses, such as University of Arizona


These events will feature CFI speakers such as Edward Tabash, Lauren Becker, Austin Dacey, Benjamin Radford, David Koepsell, Thomas Donnelly, Debbie Goddard, DJ Grothe and others. Information on CFI lecturers and their areas of expertise can be found here.

To arrange a Center for Inquiry event at your campus, or for any information on these events please contact Thomas Donnelly at tdonnelly@centerforinquiry.net.

NotReady
12-08-2006, 12:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]

*( I joke to my buddy NR because I just turned 50 and can now joke about others being old. He knows I consider him a friend - even though we have never met - so I can joke with him.)


[/ QUOTE ]

Welcome to the half-century club. The declining physical and mental capacities are somewhat offset by the gradually growing emotional equanimity.

bluesbassman
12-08-2006, 12:56 PM
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I can only prove god to be on the same order of magnitude as his holiness, the FSM, though slightly more probable given that god is more widely known.

[/ QUOTE ]

Show us your hand then. What proof?

[/ QUOTE ]

Please show us *your* proof that Zeus does not exist. Or do you think he might?

thylacine
12-08-2006, 02:01 PM
Insp. Clue!So? said:[ QUOTE ]
Get in touch with these guys:

http://www.campusinquirer.org

[/ QUOTE ]

thylacine said:[ QUOTE ]
These people can advise you on starting up freethought, etc. type organizations on campus.

http://www.campusfreethought.org/

[/ QUOTE ]

(I think it's the same page.) This is definitely the way to go to start a group or organize an event.

MaxWeiss
12-08-2006, 11:25 PM
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Things are very different in the US.

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