Thoughts on Cosmetic Surgery

[Speedlimits]

I've been thinking about the future and how I will hopefully have more financial freedom. Does anyone else want to get Cosmetic Surgery? I really want to do a lot of things (nothing DRASTIC) like smooth out my face/implants/lasik. I also want to get a personal trainer and workout a lot more.

I know this would not be anytime soon probably in 5 years or so but my question is does anyone else want to change how they look when they get (or if they get) rich?

[vhawk01]

Damn. I was kind of hoping this would actually be a SMP thread about cosmetic surgery. Instead its an OOT thread about it. Ah well.

[Speedlimits]

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Damn. I was kind of hoping this would actually be a SMP thread about cosmetic surgery. Instead its an OOT thread about it. Ah well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh like the psychological reasons for getting it. Haha I haven't thought enough about it to write a worthy post. If you have any ideas feel free to chime in.

[arahant]

How about this, then. I have a good friend who got a nose a nose job.
1) Is she no longer Jewish?
2) Are Jews going to hell?
3) Is high Jewish IQ related to:
a) years of persecution?
b) a culture of respect of scholarship?, or
c) olive consumption?

[Prodigy54321]

meh, I'd rather save my money and buy myself a seat in one of these...

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/505/cryxg6.jpg

[Speedlimits]

[ QUOTE ]
How about this, then. I have a good friend who got a nose a nose job.
1) Is she no longer Jewish?
2) Are Jews going to hell?
3) Is high Jewish IQ related to:
a) years of persecution?
b) a culture of respect of scholarship?, or
c) olive consumption?

[/ QUOTE ]

No to all of the above? Actually question #2 I can't answer because answering it would be implying that I believe in it.

[valenzuela]

I like OOT SMP threads.
I wouldnt consider cosmetic surgery, Im confortable with the way I look.

[vhawk01]

I would consider it, definitely. Depends on what it was. There is nothing about myself that I would change now, but once I got older, if it was important to me I'd do it.

I'm comfortable with the way I look but I suppose I could look better.

[madnak]

Absolutely not. I'll need all the money for brain implants.

[vhawk01]

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Absolutely not. I'll need all the money for brain implants.

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You think you really need that more than a nose job? Meh, its a push.

[luckyme]

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I would consider it, definitely. Depends on what it was. There is nothing about myself that I would change now, but once I got older, if it was important to me I'd do it.

I'm comfortable with the way I look but I suppose I could look better.

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Unless I was in a job where looks are almost everything, and I realize that covers more jobs than the obvious ones, I'd never do it. And I ain't pretty :-)

I'm not that interested in people that it would matter to.

luckyme

[Siegmund]

No. And it would be the end of my relationship with a gf if she had anything done to herself, whether or not it made her look "better" according to somebody or other's idea of prettiness. I put it in the same category as heavy makeup and perfume (nonverbally lying about who you are, not something I will tolerate) only worse.

I realize a lot of other people feel differently about it.

Edited to add: I do think it has some rightful place as a reconstructive procedure after disfiguring accidents / major surgery.

[SlapPappy]

Don't do it. Its not worth it. Its a scam. People are never happier after plastic surgery. Only temporarily. Plastic surgery has its place however. Please just be who you are.

[Speedlimits]

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No. And it would be the end of my relationship with a gf if she had anything done to herself, whether or not it made her look "better" according to somebody or other's idea of prettiness. I put it in the same category as heavy makeup and perfume (nonverbally lying about who you are, not something I will tolerate) only worse.

I realize a lot of other people feel differently about it.

Edited to add: I do think it has some rightful place as a reconstructive procedure after disfiguring accidents / major surgery.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha nice arbitrary line of distinction. So if some girl has a birth mark on her face and she wants to get rid of it that is "nonverbally lying about who you are."

[Speedlimits]

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Don't do it. Its not worth it. Its a scam. People are never happier after plastic surgery. Only temporarily. Plastic surgery has its place however. Please just be who you are.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have already had cosmetic surgery and it made me A LOT happier.

"Please just be who you are."

Humans are quantifiable. You obviously don't think they are.

[vhawk01]

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No. And it would be the end of my relationship with a gf if she had anything done to herself, whether or not it made her look "better" according to somebody or other's idea of prettiness. I put it in the same category as heavy makeup and perfume (nonverbally lying about who you are, not something I will tolerate) only worse.

I realize a lot of other people feel differently about it.

Edited to add: I do think it has some rightful place as a reconstructive procedure after disfiguring accidents / major surgery.

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha nice arbitrary line of distinction. So if some girl has a birth mark on her face and she wants to get rid of it that is "nonverbally lying about who you are."

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I agree with you totally, Speed. And how hypocritical of Siegmund anyhow, saying reconstructive surgery is fine but elective surgery isn't. So if someone gets a burn on their face its ok for them to 'try to fit someone (everyone) else's ideal of normal' but if your gf wants her skin not to be so wrinkly and saggy she is a harlot and a liar? Absurd. The point of medicine is to increase quality of life, cosmetic surgery does exactly that, and its not any more innately shallow than anything else.

[SlapPappy]

"Humans are quantifiable"

Please explain what you mean. I cannot decipher this.

Also, in your original post you said you were thinking about it, and now you say you have done it. Kinda confusing.

Well, how did it make you happier and what did you have done?

[Siegmund]

I've certainly been called a few names in my time for this and various other views I hold /images/graemlins/smile.gif I have some serious misgivings about quite a number of modern medical procedures... and, overall, a strong interest in seeing the world and people as nature created them. It's not that I like reconstructive surgery, but that I can rationalize it as 'undoing some of what that drunk driver did to you' and believe that the accident shouldn't have happened in the first place. I appreciate that some people are happy to say 'I shouldnt have been born with only a B cup in the first place' but I cant rationalize that away.

[Speedlimits]

[ QUOTE ]
"Humans are quantifiable"

Please explain what you mean. I cannot decipher this.

Also, in your original post you said you were thinking about it, and now you say you have done it. Kinda confusing.

Well, how did it make you happier and what did you have done?

[/ QUOTE ]

Regardless of people's individual preferences there is a general consensus among what is attractive and what is not.

For instance, if I took a random sample of 10 women and asked you to rank them from most attractive to least, your rankings and my rankings on the same 10 women would be either exactly or almost exactly the same.

That is why physical beauty is quantifiable.

As far as cosmetic surgery goes, yes I have had cosmetic surgery. When I hit puberty I developed gynecomastia (swelling of the nipples) and was ridiculed constantly in 9th grade at my boarding school. I would always wear a t-shirt and hunch my back so my nipples wouldn't stick out through my shirt (I was skinny so it made it worse).

I ended up leaving the school and eventually had surgery to fix this problem at age 18. Now, my chest is normal and I have no problem taking my shirt off. For me personally, the
thought of cosmetic surgery is very appealing and I know will help my confidence. Right now it is about acquiring the means (i.e. money) to follow through on this.

Maybe if you live in a vacuum then what you look like would not be important. But people influence things, they influence the way you feel and the way you think about yourself. It's impossible to live life without being a product of your surroundings in some way or another.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
I've certainly been called a few names in my time for this and various other views I hold /images/graemlins/smile.gif I have some serious misgivings about quite a number of modern medical procedures... and, overall, a strong interest in seeing the world and people as nature created them. It's not that I like reconstructive surgery, but that I can rationalize it as 'undoing some of what that drunk driver did to you' and believe that the accident shouldn't have happened in the first place. I appreciate that some people are happy to say 'I shouldnt have been born with only a B cup in the first place' but I cant rationalize that away.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hope you dont think I'm attacking you or anything. Its just a different view from mine, and it seems pretty arbitrary. I would bet that in your mind its a continuum and not nearly as straight-up as you might think, if you were really exposed to the varying cases. I mean, cleft palate surgery is cosmetic surgery, but for a mild cleft lip its not REALLY any different than a boob job. Honestly, the lip failing to fuse is just as much of a developmental issue as breast tissue only growing so much, or growing too much. There isn't a scientific or medical difference between the two, although there is obviously a normative and societal difference.

Moles and birthmarks are a good case. Some are debilitatingly large and, I would guess, you would have no problem with their removal. Some are much more sightly and, I would guess, you are against treating them?

I guess the thing that rubbed me the wrong way was how you stated you'd break up with a girl who wanted plastic surgery. Obviously you can date or dump whoever you want, but to me that seems...shallow.

[Stu Pidasso]

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No. And it would be the end of my relationship with a gf if she had anything done to herself, whether or not it made her look "better" according to somebody or other's idea of prettiness. I put it in the same category as heavy makeup and perfume (nonverbally lying about who you are, not something I will tolerate) only worse.


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I used to think like you in my youth now I realize I was wrong. Would you break up with you girl freind if she had her teeth whitened, got braces, or dyed her hair?

Stu

[madnak]

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a strong interest in seeing the world and people as nature created them

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But this is how nature created it, and us. Perhaps that's your biggest problem with everything. Human beings naturally care about their appearances, want the "average person" to like them more, value popularity above authenticity, etc. This is the natural state. Personally I prefer authenticity, but that means I'm the aberration, not everyone else. Call it petty and undesirable if you like - very few of "nature's" species aren't outright petty and undesirable according to our standards. At least in our current plastic culture, we avoid most of the inherent brutality of nature.

Are you seeking nature, or an inherently unnatural ideal?

Me, I'm all for engineering what you might call a "more natural" state of being. But keep in mind that, while such an engineered state would be natural (because actually everything is natural and there's no meaningful distinction there), such a state would also be an impossible result of unengineered nature. That is, you can't have your cake and eat it too - we engineer our appearances, or we engineer ourselves.

[SlapPappy]

"Physical beauty is quantifiable"

This is different from "Humans are quantifiable"

In your case plastic surgery probably helped immensely. I am referring to people who use it to look more like a celebrity that is somewhat dangerous. Take eyelash implants for instance $3000 per eye is what I hear.