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View Full Version : 10NL set vs. unknown on 4flush board

Supwithbates
11-30-2006, 05:24 PM
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool (http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php) from FlopTurnRiver.com (http://www.flopturnriver.com) (Format: 2+2 Forums)

UTG ($10)
UTG+1 ($9.75)
MP1 ($1.80)
MP2 ($13.10)
MP3 ($10.10)
CO ($5.15)
Hero ($8.90)
SB ($4.10)
BB ($9.15)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. UTG posts a blind of $0.10.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG (poster) raises to $0.5</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, Hero calls $0.50, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: ($1.15) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1</font>, UTG calls $1.

Turn: ($3.15) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: ($3.15) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $1</font>, Hero calls $1.

Final Pot: $5.15
Villian is unknown, just sat down at the table.
I didn't want to build a big pot on such a bad board. I didn't think he has the flush here, so I think the river call is alright because he often has AK here.

Is this a pretty standard way to play on this dangerous board?
CityLife
11-30-2006, 08:33 PM
All looks good to me. I think there might be an argument to bet ~$2 on the turn, but you're only going to get called by a spade so I think the check here is good.
Supwithbates
11-30-2006, 09:44 PM
Given that I haven't repp'd the flush and neither has villian, does a river raise ever have any villian? I wouldn't try it vs. an unkown but couldn't I get paid off by AK or fold out higher sets sometimes?
Waingro
11-30-2006, 10:18 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Given that I haven't repp'd the flush and neither has villian, does a river raise ever have any villian? I wouldn't try it vs. an unkown but couldn't I get paid off by AK or fold out higher sets sometimes?

[/ QUOTE ]
I donīt think higher sets is a huge part of villanīs range here. I do thing that Asx is. I see that line a lot, when villain suddenly realises that there is no hand to pay him off when he hits. Just call river, you are getting a fair price.
ImprovinNewbie
11-30-2006, 10:21 PM
if you bet on the flop bet the pot... dont let someone draw... you didnt give them odds but you bet looks weak, not like a suck bet or like a strong bet. clearly call river getting 4 to one and probably lose.
Supwithbates
12-01-2006, 12:04 AM
[ QUOTE ]
if you bet on the flop bet the pot... dont let someone draw... you didnt give them odds but you bet looks weak, not like a suck bet or like a strong bet. clearly call river getting 4 to one and probably lose.

[/ QUOTE ]
Betting 85% of the pot isn't really weak...
Check_The_Nuts
12-01-2006, 01:58 AM
uhhh I fold the river.....You only beat a bluff....

I wouldn't raise river here. Guys call ALLLLLLLLLLL the time with any pair and flush draw on that board. Plus you don't rep a flush at all.

flop bet size is fine.
Supwithbates
12-01-2006, 02:23 AM
[ QUOTE ]
uhhh I fold the river.....You only beat a bluff....

I wouldn't raise river here. Guys call ALLLLLLLLLLL the time with any pair and flush draw on that board. Plus you don't rep a flush at all.

flop bet size is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]
You don't think the standard 10NL donk is capable of trying to valuebet AK here? I really haven't repped the flush at all so I could easily see a villian trying to extract with top 2 on this river, and a 5BB UTG raise says to me JJ+/AK; if he has AA or KK I'm hosed, if he has QQ/JJ he's not betting here unless one is a spade, but if he has AK then my call is good.
Check_The_Nuts
12-01-2006, 02:26 AM
if you bet your draws and a lot of the time when your checked to, your hand isn't defined at all and you should have a flush here a lot of the time as a result.

If villian has AK here he played it really bad. Check calling that flop is a crime.

betting that river as villian with top two isn't a value bet if I'm in the hand. I only call with a flush.
Supwithbates
12-01-2006, 02:35 AM
villian doesn't know me, and I never go into 10NL games assuming my opponents are going to play hands well. I don't even always play my hands well, so why would a standard 10NL donk?
In the hand itself, I called and villian showed KK. A raise might have driven him off his hand, and although I doubt villian has the flush here often, I think a raise is getting called enough by any hand beating us for it to be a spew and significantly -EV. My read was correct, however, that villian didn't necessarilly need the flush to valuebet here, so I think that AK is a part of his range.