Anyone think you should/can slow-play (occasionally) high pairs?

[bober2]

I was roundly criticized for slow-playing QQ in a previous post. I did it once with AA today and it worked out ok. Does anyone think it's at all reasonable to do occasionally with higher pairs. What pairs do you just call pre-flop vs. which ones do you raise?

[Imrahil]

I never slowplay PF in cash games. One, you don't build a big pot with a good hand. Two, you're letting a bunch of random hands in and you will NEVER know where you're at after the flop.

[wdead]

Never slowplay until u reach 3/6 or 5/10 NL and u will be a much more winning player.

[Shaddux]

Just because it worked okay once doesn't make it a sound play at all.

Don't do it.

[Jouster777]

You need an awefully good read/situation to do it...like folded to you in SB when BB folds when led into and pushes when opening 90% of the time.

If you are talking about flop play then something almost as extreme as the above. Its only one pair and very vulnerable. You have to be certain villain will bet it for you.

[banana182]

IMO, slow-playing on lower levels is a terrible idea. If you put in a bet and everyone folds, you pull in the pot. If you allow players to see cheaply another card, you will eventually get burned. I think a straightforward approach on lower levels works since a lot of donks will call with nothing and could hit a card which beats your QQ.

[avfletch]

Basically what you need to ask yourself is why you would want to slow play them? Most people do it because "they'll all fold if I raise".

I've just opened an old Poker Tracker database of mine and I've got 17k hands logged at 25NL in there. Lets look at my stats for the 4 big ones shall we?

AA - 82 times - +$358.30 - +$4.36/time
KK - 67 times - +$148.70 - +$2.23/time
QQ - 80 times - +$129.00 - +$1.61/time
JJ - 70 times - +$42.60 - +$0.61/time

And I didn't slow play them once. Just bet them and raised them. So based on those numbers, do you really think you need to?

Now let's assume for a moment that it is correct to slow play them occasionally (which I don't believe) how much value could you really add to the numbers above? If you could squeeze out an extra 10c expected value from AA don't you think there are bigger holes in your game you should be concentrating on?

[EMc]

[ QUOTE ]
Never slowplay until u reach 3/6 or 5/10 NL and u will be a much more winning player.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

[Dennisa]

I dont do it often, but thier is a place for it.

I would need to be in early position. I would need to have a laggard sitting in middle to late position whom will raise more than 20% of the time. I also want a tag somewhere who may put the first raise in. My goal is to then run the squeeze play and 3 or 4 all in. It does not happen often, but effective.

Now if you do limp, and it has not been raised, you better be able to play them post flop. Play them for a small pot and just be careful, dont loose your stack in an unraised pot.

[Phytopath]

I don't necessarily think that you "should" slowplay big pairs but you certainly "can" and in certain situations against the right player it is profitable.

IMO there are no absolutes in poker. Also levels don't have that much to do with anything, rather the players at the table are the ones you need to adjust for.

[Check_The_Nuts]

kinda lost here. So you get AA preflop, and you just call?

Yeah ok I'm lost. Explain here...

Your delt one ace, then a second one....then something happens that doesn't involve raising....

could you draw a diagram or something?

[Check_The_Nuts]

ohhhhh I get it, you misclick and accidently limp aces preflop!!!! well at least you didn't hit the fold button!

[Leviathan101]

I wouldn't do it unless you're against a guy you know will take a lot of shots at the pot and keep following through with it.

This happened to me tonight...
Villian is 23.8/15.9/14 over 64 hands. I've played with for an hour or so and he'll fire anytime he feels weakness.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
5 players
Converter (http://www.neildewhurst.com/hand-converter)

Stack sizes:
UTG: $29.75
CO: $49.30
Button: $24.65
Hero: $37.25
BB: $25.25

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $1</font>, Hero calls, BB folds.

Flop: 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif 2/images/graemlins/club.gif ($2.25, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets $1.5</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($5.25, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $4</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $12.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises all-in $34.75</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button calls all-in $9.65</font>.
Uncalled bets: $12.6 returned to Hero.

River: 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif ($49.55, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $49.55)

Results:
Final pot: $49.55

Now while I usually think slowplaying is a bad idea (and in retrospect I shouldn't have on this flop. Should've just gone for the check/raise.) I think this is exactly the type of villian you would slow play against. But he had 88 and would've had gotten it AI on the flop anyways. All I did is let him increase his chance to win SIGNIFICANTLY by letting him get to the turn first.

Slow playing will also tend lead to missed opportunities against players who also slowplay. When they are slowplaying two pair and you're slowplaying you're set, you're missin a lot of value especially when that third heart falls and kills your action.
Overall story. Slowplaying isn't that effective, use it sparingly, if at all, and only when you are almost a lock to win, AND can get more money in the pot by letting them get free cards.

[Hellmouth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Never slowplay until u reach 3/6 or 5/10 NL and u will be a much more winning player.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

[/ QUOTE ]

QED