All loving God? (Bible quotes post)

[soon2bepro]

Just thought I'd post some interesting Bible quotes about this all-loving, all-caring, all-forgiving, omnibenevolent God we always get preached about. Enjoy:




If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.
Leviticus 20:9


If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
Leviticus 20:10


If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.
Leviticus 20:13


Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death
Exodus 22:19


If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house
Deuteronomy 22:20-1


When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.
Deuteronomy 7:1-2


When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves... This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them as the Lord your God has commanded you.
Deuteronomy 20:10-17


I also gave them over to statutes that were not good and laws they could not live by; I let them become defiled through their gifts [the sacrifice of every firstborn] that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the LORD.
Ezekiel 20:25-26


If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.
Exodus 21:20-21


Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property
Leviticus 25:44-45


Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Numbers 31:17


But God will shatter the heads of his enemies
Psalms 68:21


Samar'ia shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.
Hosea 13:16


Slay and utterly destroy after them, says the Lord, and do all that I have commanded you.
Jeremiah 50:21


And the Lord our God gave him over to us; and we defeated him and his sons and all his people. And we captured all his cities at that time and utterly destroyed every city, men, women and children; we left none remaining
Deuteronomy 2:33


Behold the day of the Lord comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger...Whoever is found will be thrust through and whoever is caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed in pieces before their eyes, their houses will be plundered and their wives ravished.
Isaiah 13:9, 13:15


Therefore fathers shall eat their sons in the midst of you and sons shall eat their fathers...I will send famine and wild beasts against you and they shall rob you of your children; pestilence and blood shall pass through you; and I will bring a sword upon you. I, the Lord, have spoken.
Ezekiel 5:10, 5:17


I will fall upon them like a bear robbed of her cubs, I will tear open their breast, and there I will devour them like a lion, as a wild beast would rend them.
Hosea 13:8


And I will fill your mountains with the slain; on your hills and in your valleys and in all your ravines those slain with the sword shall fall...Then you shall know that I am the Lord.
Ezekiel 35:8


Behold, I will corrupt your seed and spread dung upon your faces
Malachi 2:3


Pass through the city after him, and smite; your eye shall not spare and you shall show no pity; slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women
Ezekiel 9:5


And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
Jeremiah 13:14


Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
1 Samuel 15:3


Behold the day of the Lord is coming, when the spoil taken from you will be divided in the midst of you. For I will gather the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women ravished...
Zachariah 14:1


And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one.
Luke 22:36


[Jesus speaking]
Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you.
John 14:27

Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother- in-law
Matthew 10:34


Do you think I have to come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division; for henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three; they will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against her mother, mother- in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in- law
Luke 12:51


While the people of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day...And the Lord said to Moses, 'The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.' And all the congregation brought him outside the camp, and stoned him to death with stones, as the Lord commanded Moses.
Numbers 15:32

[Skidoo]

Now provide a complete exposition on the intended audience and the social context of each of those quotes.

[MidGe]

[ QUOTE ]
Now provide a complete exposition on the intended audience and the social context of each of those quotes.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is the word of god, surely it is universal in application!?

If not so applicable, then you may as well throw out the whole book, since the social context has changed significantly in the last 2000 years, as has the audience.

[arahant]

[ QUOTE ]
Now provide a complete exposition on the intended audience and the social context of each of those quotes.

[/ QUOTE ]
And if you are successful at that, we're also going to need to see the quotes in their original language, along with translation notes.

And if they still don't sound very 'christian', then they're just allegorical, so lay off...

Also, "you have some problem with these rules?"

[arahant]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now provide a complete exposition on the intended audience and the social context of each of those quotes.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is the word of god, surely it is universal in application!?

If not so applicable, then you may as well throw out the whole book, since the social context has changed significantly in the last 2000 years, as has the audience.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like your posts, Midge. I can only find it in my heart to sarcastically mock these responses. You seem to respond with actual rational argument. That won't work, of course, but I still like your posts.

[Kimbell175113]

There was a great moment in season 2 of the West Wing where Bartlet pwns this radio host with stuff like this. Let me see how fast I can YouTube search...

Ah, here we go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHaVUjjH3EI&mode=related&search=

[arahant]

damn hollywood values.

Edit: I'd like to thank this entire forum for using YouTube to point me to the most important and/or amusing mass media moments of the last decade, saving me countless hours of TV viewing. Allowing me to spout off here instead. And of course, you personally for pointing this one out...sweet.

[RED FACE]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now provide a complete exposition on the intended audience and the social context of each of those quotes.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is the word of god, surely it is universal in application!?

If not so applicable, then you may as well throw out the whole book, since the social context has changed significantly in the last 2000 years, as has the audience.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the bible says Jews are to do "A" and Christians are to do "B" then we have to throw the whole thing out? I don't get it.

If the Jews are being led in the wilderness for 40 years and are given what we today would consider an extraordinarily harsh set of laws to govern them during this time then we shouldn't assume that these laws are for everyone, nor should we assume that they are for all time, nor should we throw out the whole bible.

I think your insistence on universal applicability doesn't make sense. We should try to understand the applicability based on the context of the scripture in question. I'm not saying it's easy or always perfectly clear but a very reasonable approach.

[arahant]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now provide a complete exposition on the intended audience and the social context of each of those quotes.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is the word of god, surely it is universal in application!?

If not so applicable, then you may as well throw out the whole book, since the social context has changed significantly in the last 2000 years, as has the audience.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the bible says Jews are to do "A" and Christians are to do "B" then we have to throw the whole thing out? I don't get it.

If the Jews are being led in the wilderness for 40 years and are given what we today would consider an extraordinarily harsh set of laws to govern them during this time then we shouldn't assume that these laws are for everyone, nor should we assume that they are for all time, nor should we throw out the whole bible.

I think your insistence on universal applicability doesn't make sense. We should try to understand the applicability based on the context of the scripture in question. I'm not saying it's easy or always perfectly clear but a very reasonable approach.

[/ QUOTE ]
I dunno...we're talking 2,000 years here. Aren't we group "C"? The group the bible doesn't talk about?

Obviously, everyone is free to interpret the bible as he/she pleases, but I think the point was, that once we have decided that we need to pick and choose what laws now apply, it becomes nearly (read:entirely) impossible for one interpretation to win out over another. So yeah, I guess your approach isn't at all unreasonable, but at the same time, if someones interpretation differs from yours, it's hard for YOU to call it unreasonable.

Consider that the Koran is essentially an interpretation of the bible. We now consider it a separate religion, but it is essentially a set of prescriptions providing more detail on how to follow God's law.

[Hopey]

[ QUOTE ]
Now provide a complete exposition on the intended audience and the social context of each of those quotes.

[/ QUOTE ]

You first.

[madnak]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now provide a complete exposition on the intended audience and the social context of each of those quotes.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is the word of god, surely it is universal in application!?

If not so applicable, then you may as well throw out the whole book, since the social context has changed significantly in the last 2000 years, as has the audience.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the bible says Jews are to do "A" and Christians are to do "B" then we have to throw the whole thing out? I don't get it.

If the Jews are being led in the wilderness for 40 years and are given what we today would consider an extraordinarily harsh set of laws to govern them during this time then we shouldn't assume that these laws are for everyone, nor should we assume that they are for all time, nor should we throw out the whole bible.

I think your insistence on universal applicability doesn't make sense. We should try to understand the applicability based on the context of the scripture in question. I'm not saying it's easy or always perfectly clear but a very reasonable approach.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh great. Then you acknowledge that, because the strictures against homosexuality (assuming they're interpreted that way) appear alongside rules about stonings and slavery, those rules must also be void? That's good to know.

Oh yeah, and arahant is 100% correct. If different God-given rules apply to different peoples, and if our human reason and intuition is the best way to determine which rules apply universally and which don't, then, since we are a different people from the Christians and the Jews, we must use our own intuition and reason to decide which rules apply to us.

Finally, the point had nothing to do with applicability. The point was the God himself gave dramatically unjust laws to his people, and ordered them to commit murder, rape, and genocide. It's not meant to represent a contradiction here, it's meant to impugn God's character.

[RED FACE]

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously, everyone is free to interpret the bible as he/she pleases, but I think the point was, that once we have decided that we need to pick and choose what laws now apply, it becomes nearly (read:entirely) impossible for one interpretation to win out over another. So yeah, I guess your approach isn't at all unreasonable, but at the same time, if someones interpretation differs from yours, it's hard for YOU to call it unreasonable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't referring to any particular interpretation as reasonable or otherwise but rather the way one should assess scripture or any text at all. That is, in context.

Are you saying that when discussing a text that looking at the actual text is useless because it's all up to one's interpretation?

Also, "...win out over another" isn't relative. It's not about winning a debate. My comment was about the way he was suggesting one should assess a text.

If I disagree with someone about some scripture hopefully we would discuss it and refer to the text and context in question and maybe we would both learn something. We shouldn't be picking and choosing what we want to agree with at random but we should have textural reasons.

I don't understand how this could be otherwise.

[RED FACE]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh yeah, and arahant is 100% correct. If different God-given rules apply to different peoples, and if our human reason and intuition is the best way to determine which rules apply universally and which don't, then, since we are a different people from the Christians and the Jews, we must use our own intuition and reason to decide which rules apply to us.

Finally, the point had nothing to do with applicability. The point was the God himself gave dramatically unjust laws to his people, and ordered them to commit murder, rape, and genocide. It's not meant to represent a contradiction here, it's meant to impugn God's character.

[/ QUOTE ]

You should use your reason to understand the text in question.

The post I replied to had everything to do with applicability.

[soon2bepro]

In my opinion, as soon as you decide a text can't be interpreted straightfowardly, when you have to analyze so-called "metaphors", or at least seek for them to understand something other than what is being said, it becomes poetry. Poetry can be nice, but it's ultimate goal is to seek to provoke feelings, it's a form of art, it's not meant to provide knowledge or insight. This should be obvious since it's open to interpretation.

When a text is open to interpretation, it basically means that it's not the message the author wanted to give out that matters, but the message the reader WANTS to get from it.

As I said in another topic, it'd be the same if I picked a newspaper and proclaimed it contains the absolute truth and morality. Then I would proceed to adapt my interpretation of the text to whatever it is I seek to find.

Bottomline is, as madnak said, even if all these laws were for some other context, you have to wonder how benevolent this "God" really is. Or since you're already trying to think for yourself, you may even go a step ahead, and start wondering why someone would want to make up such a religion and book, then shove it down peoples' throats, literally if necessary (as we know it's been done).

Once you understand the obvious reasons why someone would want to organize and create a religion, maybe you'll start wondering what is really more likely. If only because you may start feeling so stupid and fooled, like a 9 year old when he finds out there really is no tooth fairie or santa.

There simply is no evidence to support a scientific theory that suggests a substantial part of this belief is true.

But why am I saying all that? Almost all believers have decided that they won't use the tiniest bit of logic in analyzing their belief. Well... I hope that since you're in this forum, you would at least have already noticed the power of science, and how, by experience, it DOES work.

In any case, this thread is mostly about showing people who is ignorant about The Bible, some of the most obvious atrocities contained within it. I'm an almost amoral individual (by choice), but I'm astonished when I think of the isolated fact that this kind of belief has survived for so long. Then I consider how stupid, hypocritical, selfish, cruel and narrow-minded people really are, and everything seems to fit.

[revots33]

http://www.humanistsofutah.org/2002/WhyCantIOwnACanadian_10-02.html

[BPA234]

Who, exactly, decides the applicability?

[BPA234]

I don't think the point is about audience and context, rather that the God invoking/articulating those directives, as described by the very content of those directives, is a murdering, rapist, slaveholder etc. etc. etc.

[jah7_fsu1]

Excellent link revot, that letter is hilarious.

[RayBornert]

[ QUOTE ]
Just thought I'd post some interesting Bible quotes about this all-loving, all-caring, all-forgiving, omnibenevolent God we always get preached about. Enjoy:




If anyone curses his father or mother, he must be put to death.
Leviticus 20:9


If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death.
Leviticus 20:10


If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death.
Leviticus 20:13


Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death
Exodus 22:19


If, however, the charge is true and no proof of the girl’s virginity can be found, she shall be brought to the door of her father’s house and there the men of her town shall stone her to death. She has done a disgraceful thing in Israel by being promiscuous while still in her father’s house
Deuteronomy 22:20-1


When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations . . . then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.
Deuteronomy 7:1-2


When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace. If they accept and open their gates, all the people in it shall be subject to forced labor and shall work for you. If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city. When the Lord your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves... This is how you are to treat all the cities that are at a distance from you and do not belong to the nations nearby.
However, in the cities of the nations the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them as the Lord your God has commanded you.
Deuteronomy 20:10-17


I also gave them over to statutes that were not good and laws they could not live by; I let them become defiled through their gifts [the sacrifice of every firstborn] that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the LORD.
Ezekiel 20:25-26


If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.
Exodus 21:20-21


Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property
Leviticus 25:44-45


Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Numbers 31:17


But God will shatter the heads of his enemies
Psalms 68:21


Samar'ia shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword, their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.
Hosea 13:16


Slay and utterly destroy after them, says the Lord, and do all that I have commanded you.
Jeremiah 50:21


And the Lord our God gave him over to us; and we defeated him and his sons and all his people. And we captured all his cities at that time and utterly destroyed every city, men, women and children; we left none remaining
Deuteronomy 2:33


Behold the day of the Lord comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger...Whoever is found will be thrust through and whoever is caught will fall by the sword. Their infants will be dashed in pieces before their eyes, their houses will be plundered and their wives ravished.
Isaiah 13:9, 13:15


Therefore fathers shall eat their sons in the midst of you and sons shall eat their fathers...I will send famine and wild beasts against you and they shall rob you of your children; pestilence and blood shall pass through you; and I will bring a sword upon you. I, the Lord, have spoken.
Ezekiel 5:10, 5:17


I will fall upon them like a bear robbed of her cubs, I will tear open their breast, and there I will devour them like a lion, as a wild beast would rend them.
Hosea 13:8


And I will fill your mountains with the slain; on your hills and in your valleys and in all your ravines those slain with the sword shall fall...Then you shall know that I am the Lord.
Ezekiel 35:8


Behold, I will corrupt your seed and spread dung upon your faces
Malachi 2:3


Pass through the city after him, and smite; your eye shall not spare and you shall show no pity; slay old men outright, young men and maidens, little children and women
Ezekiel 9:5


And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.
Jeremiah 13:14


Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
1 Samuel 15:3


Behold the day of the Lord is coming, when the spoil taken from you will be divided in the midst of you. For I will gather the nations against Jerusalem to battle, and the city shall be taken and the houses plundered and the women ravished...
Zachariah 14:1


And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one.
Luke 22:36


[Jesus speaking]
Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you.
John 14:27

Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother- in-law
Matthew 10:34


Do you think I have to come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division; for henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three; they will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against her mother, mother- in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in- law
Luke 12:51


While the people of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day...And the Lord said to Moses, 'The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.' And all the congregation brought him outside the camp, and stoned him to death with stones, as the Lord commanded Moses.
Numbers 15:32

[/ QUOTE ]

suppose charles darwin were asked the following question:

Q: Mr. Darwin, in light of what you know about the fitness of things to survive into the future, which of the following cultures has the best chance for survival?

Animal Culture:
1) matricide and patricide
2) non-monogamous family structure
3) anti-hetero sexual tendancies
4) anti-human sexual tendancies
5) casual sexual tendancies
6) casual posture toward other cultures
7) incestual tendencies
8) lawless tendencies
9) polytheistic tendencies

Human Culture:
1) respected parents
2) monogamous family structure
3) strong heterosexual tendencies
4) strong human sexual tendencies
5) no casual copulation
6) no treaties with animal cultures
7) incestual tendencies are deselected
8) lawless tendencies are deselected
9) polytheistic tendencies are deselected

A: This is a joke right?

many of you on this forum uphold the idea of evolution, but when you guys are presented with a possible historical case of a culture attempting to deselect it's animal origins as best it can and elevate itself to a place wherein a much richer quality of life can be attained (over and above that of the animal kingdom), you piss all over yourselves like ignorant hypocrites. (and you know who you are)

my guess is that the vestigial remnants of your animal origins are still kicking and screaming at the thought of being deselected for not bringing maximum quality of life to your culture.

so for those of you who hail evolution as a noble theory, let me just suggest that you consider the possibility that it's a very ugly violent process at times.

ray

[kurto]

me thinks you're missing the point.

[madnak]

Of course it's ugly and violent at times. Which is part of why your description of "human culture" hardly seems to describe anything that exists in the real world. Humans are perhaps the primary species to exhibit "animal culture," with certain exceptions related to us being a social species.

And I don't even know where the assumption came from that your "human culture" results in a better quality of life than your "animal culture." Evidence is to the contrary, if anything, even given the melodrama.

[RayBornert]

[ QUOTE ]
me thinks you're missing the point.

[/ QUOTE ]

not missing the point one bit here.

assuming the scientific part of you agrees with my reply then the only remaining issue is the observation that there are still many people today with the cultural genetics created/selected 4k years ago - and most of us would agree that those cultural genetics might be less useful now than they were back then.

so the entire complaint boils down to:

i am annoyed with slow evolvers.

tough [censored]. deal with it. that's evolution baby. love it or hate; it is what it is.

how 'bout having some mercy compassion and forgiveness for slow evolvers instead of [censored] all over them.

ray.

[kurto]

Your interpretation of the post is out of this world.

The thread is about the how textual representation of the Christian God is quite different then how Christians portray it.

You seem to be having an emotional reaction and seeing something that just isn't there.

[dknightx]

sigh ... you bible bashers are hopeless. i have no idea why i even try, because its not like its going to change anyones opinion (one way or the other).

Look, the bible IS NOT a book of RULES that we have to follow. It is a book that allows us to see the heart of God. In the verses you posted, you either: 1. do not understand what is being said (for example, Matthew 10:34) 2. assume that laws written for the israel nation (at that time) should be EXACTLY what we have to do today.

WRONG!

what is the point of all these verses? It is that God considers all of these things to be sins ... cursing your parents, adultery, homosexuality, etc, etc. Does that mean we should go around killing everyone who committed these sins? no. why? because what is written in these older books was given for the israel nation (and sometimes just the priests), AT THAT TIME, and is not relevant to us now.

What is relevant to us now? We know what God despises ... and in that sense, it is universally applicable. If you guys really cared about understanding the bible (as a WHOLE, and NOT just on a verse by verse basis), you would take the time to (unbiasly) try.

[HitNRunPoster]

I saw a similar set of quotes from the qur'an.

Anyways, this is kinda interesting, but doesn't really do much without context. You'd do yourself a service to actually read the book cover to cover.

[RayBornert]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course it's ugly and violent at times. Which is part of why your description of "human culture" hardly seems to describe anything that exists in the real world. Humans are perhaps the primary species to exhibit "animal culture," with certain exceptions related to us being a social species.

And I don't even know where the assumption came from that your "human culture" results in a better quality of life than your "animal culture." Evidence is to the contrary, if anything, even given the melodrama.

[/ QUOTE ]

there is no doubt that we humans have a much wider spectrum of choices when it comes to defining cultures. but my overall point is that some definitions are better fit to survive into the future; some definitions are better suited for overall quality of life at the indiviudal level.

the best cultures achieve both goals in tandem. in a hostile world it is not easy to achieve both goals at the same time; but i assert that moses hit the ball out of the park regardless of how you feel about his strategy now.

the fictional island culture in "king kong" survived and so it was successful by that criteria; but the individual quality of life available was very low compared to the best cultures today and so it was a failure by that measurement.

9 wealthy naked bi-sexual nubile nymphettes might have a culture with a goddess like existence in a manhattan penthouse but if we were to move their culture to a yurt in the middle of afghanistan 10 years ago, the average life expectancy of their culture would be on the order of days if even that.

so all i'm asking here is for all of you to have mercy on the slow evolvers and think twice about flaming old testament cultural genetics and see them for what they are - a fine example of a culture defining itself in order to increase survivability and quality of life in a hostile world.

ray.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
sigh ... you bible bashers are hopeless. i have no idea why i even try, because its not like its going to change anyones opinion (one way or the other).


[/ QUOTE ]

That's not necessarily true. Most atheists I've met were raised in a religious environment. Through critical thought and exposure to other's ideas were they able to drop their superstitions.

I'd say there is always a chance that someone who's always accepted his religion blindly will look at what he's been taught with a critical eye when he's finally exposed to some people who don't just accept everything on faith.

[ QUOTE ]
Look, the bible IS NOT a book of RULES that we have to follow.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty sure quite a few Christians disagree with you. I have a Christian Born Again in my family who would question your understanding of the Bible.

[ QUOTE ]
Does that mean we should go around killing everyone who committed these sins? no.

[/ QUOTE ] At least if you choose to ignore parts of the Bible.

[ QUOTE ]
2. assume that laws written for the israel nation (at that time) should be EXACTLY what we have to do today.


[/ QUOTE ]

That gets to another fun part about the Bible... seeing how different Christian groups decide which parts of the Bible still apply and which don't. I call it "Pick and Choose Religion" -- pick the parts of the Bible you like, ignore the parts you don't like. Its how most Christians I've met operate.

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If you guys really cared about understanding the bible (as a WHOLE, and NOT just on a verse by verse basis), you would take the time to (unbiasly) try.

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What about understanding that it is a book that was written by men thousands of years ago codifying their mythology. Of course its ridiculous to hold the Bible up and expect it to be relevent today. We don't believe slavery is right. We know that the Earth is more then 6000 years ago. That men can't ressurect dead people. That angels and Gods are simply creations of man. We do understand the Bible. Its a cultural relic of a more barbaric society. All the more reason it should be tossed aside.

[dknightx]

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Look, the bible IS NOT a book of RULES that we have to follow.

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Pretty sure quite a few Christians disagree with you. I have a Christian Born Again in my family who would question your understanding of the Bible.


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well its unfortunate that the christians you have met do not understand what christianity even is. Can't really blame you for having this point of view.

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Does that mean we should go around killing everyone who committed these sins? no.

[/ QUOTE ] At least if you choose to ignore parts of the Bible.


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i guess you missed the entire point of my post.

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2. assume that laws written for the israel nation (at that time) should be EXACTLY what we have to do today.


[/ QUOTE ]

That gets to another fun part about the Bible... seeing how different Christian groups decide which parts of the Bible still apply and which don't. I call it "Pick and Choose Religion" -- pick the parts of the Bible you like, ignore the parts you don't like. Its how most Christians I've met operate.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not picking and choosing anything.

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
If you guys really cared about understanding the bible (as a WHOLE, and NOT just on a verse by verse basis), you would take the time to (unbiasly) try.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about understanding that it is a book that was written by men thousands of years ago codifying their mythology. Of course its ridiculous to hold the Bible up and expect it to be relevent today. We don't believe slavery is right. We know that the Earth is more then 6000 years ago. That men can't ressurect dead people. That angels and Gods are simply creations of man. We do understand the Bible. Its a cultural relic of a more barbaric society. All the more reason it should be tossed aside.

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if thats what you want to believe, i support you 100%

[madnak]

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Look, the bible IS NOT a book of RULES that we have to follow. It is a book that allows us to see the heart of God.

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That's exactly why it's so chilling.

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If you guys really cared about understanding the bible (as a WHOLE, and NOT just on a verse by verse basis), you would take the time to (unbiasly) try.

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Funny, a recent poll suggested that more of us have actually read the Bible than you. I absolutely support your advice though - there is nothing that would do more to increase atheism in the world than the widespread reading of the Bible.

[madnak]

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the best cultures achieve both goals in tandem. in a hostile world it is not easy to achieve both goals at the same time; but i assert that moses hit the ball out of the park regardless of how you feel about his strategy now.

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The world is constantly changing, and always has been. Fitness is very relative.

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9 wealthy naked bi-sexual nubile nymphettes might have a culture with a goddess like existence in a manhattan penthouse but if we were to move their culture to a yurt in the middle of afghanistan 10 years ago, the average life expectancy of their culture would be on the order of days if even that.

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Assuming they failed to adapt. And if we put a bunch of ancient Hebrews into modern culture, they wouldn't last long either.

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so all i'm asking here is for all of you to have mercy on the slow evolvers and think twice about flaming old testament cultural genetics and see them for what they are - a fine example of a culture defining itself in order to increase survivability and quality of life in a hostile world.

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I don't know about "fine." I can certainly think of some alternatives I'd prefer - even those of my ancestors, who were brutal barbarians, seem much preferable to me. But nobody is being hurt today because of the Viking mythos or the Celtic mythos. So I see them as fine cultural examples. But the Abrahamic faiths are more insidious and much more harmful. People are suggesting that the greatest villain ever invented is the source of everything good. I'm not just going to hum at that. Moreover, they're directly hostile to me, they're no longer adaptive on a quality-of-life level, and their basic strategy is one of aggressive and coercive elimination of competition.

And survival? Well, I'm impressed by their survival in a certain way. The same way I'm impressed with the cockroach...

[kurto]

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I'm not picking and choosing anything.


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I'm certainly not singling you out. I'm not at all familiar with you, your beliefs, habits, etc.

I do know that a rathar representative group does things like discount rules that they don't like or feel no longer apply (slavery, misogynistic parts of the Bible, genocide, etc.) but still happily quote passages they do like (for instance, passages that reinforce their dislike of homosexuals).

Also- you are also free to interpret the Bible how you so choose. Clearly you are not a Bible scipture literalist. Yet a decent percentage claim to believe everything in the Bible is literal fact.

This division in beliefs, to me, also demonstrates further problems with the Bible, religion, etc. For an all-perfect God he should writes a sloppy book which so few people can agree on exactly what it says, what it means, what parts are relevent (though I'm fairly certain it says in the Bible that what's written is eternal and unchanging... so to argue parts are outdated or don't apply would also be a contradiction of the 'word of God.')