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The Rivercard
11-27-2006, 11:18 AM
I thought this might be of interest as it will open the door for sponsors and and new players. It was in the Sunday Times and is a total shift from what the Gambling commision have been saying so far.

THE government is paving the way for a gambling bonanza in Britain’s pubs by easing restrictions on playing card games including poker for money in bars.
Any pub will be free to hold poker games for cash under reforms to the gambling laws to be introduced next year. At present, only pubs with a special permit from their local council are allowed to do so.



Although drinkers’ potential losses will be capped, possibly at about £10 a night, critics have accused ministers of acting irresponsibly by promoting a dangerous cocktail of gaming and alcohol.

“Gambling and drink together are a heady mix — the more you drink, the less rational you become,” said Mark Griffiths, professor of gambling studies at Nottingham Trent University. “I’ve got nothing against playing poker but if you’re going to do it and drink heavily, don’t be surprised if you bet more than you thought you were going to bet. Alcohol is a drug and like any drug it impairs judgment.”

Hugo Swire, the shadow culture secretary, said: “With the growing problem of personal debt, the government should be warning about the dangers of gambling addiction rather than encouraging the dangerous mixture of poker and alcohol in pubs.”

The move comes amid a surge in popularity in poker with independent research suggesting as many as 5.8m people now gamble online; other studies estimate an average of £1,000 a year is staked on internet gambling, much of it on poker.

While internet gambling has effectively been outlawed by America, Labour wants to turn Britain into a “world leader” in the field. The Gambling Act 2005 will lift the ban on online gaming businesses being based in the UK from next year.

Under laws that date from 1968, pubs have to seek permission from licensing authorities to host poker, bingo, bridge and other so-called “equal chance” games, where the outcome is more dependent on luck than skill. Dominoes and cribbage are exempt from the rules.

Although only “low” stakes or prizes are allowed in these games, there is no clear definition of what this constitutes. In practice it has meant that participants in most pub poker games play for points instead of cash.

Under the new Gambling Act pubs will no longer require a special permit for the games from next autumn, a move that critics fear will open the floodgates for “gambling dens” to spring up on every high street. Games that involve staking against a banker such as pontoon, blackjack and roulette will remain illegal under the new rules.

The provisions of the act will also prevent pubs from deriving a direct financial benefit from card games by, for example, charging fees to participants, and will stipulate that children must be excluded from any games.

Many pubs are already signing up to national poker leagues in the belief that holding regular events will provide a boost to bar takings. Critics are concerned that it will be impossible to police as bar staff will be too busy to check whether players are sticking to the limits on losses.

The culture department said: “The government does not believe permitting people to play poker in pubs for very small stakes (a few pounds per head) puts at risk any of the three objectives of the Gambling Act: protecting the vulnerable, keeping out crime and keeping games fair.”

MiltonFriedman
11-27-2006, 11:29 AM
Ironically, Gutshot is still being prosecuted for pioneering the gaming club concept in London.

The Rivercard
11-27-2006, 11:44 AM
True but watch out for an article that will be out in December in "the publican". Where as I dont think they had a chance 6 months ago there is now growing support from the drinks industry to allow more "gutshot style" clubs. There will be a lot of suprising news over the next few months and I dont think it will be all bad.

athought
11-28-2006, 02:13 AM
I like how the major argument is that alcohol might make you bet too much. It also makes me buy too random ugly girls drinks irrationally. Is that not adding to the problem of my personal debt? Why isn't anyone trying to ban ugly women from bars? I like how some ways to waste discretionary income are okay (buying ugly girls drinks) and others (playing cards) aren't. I need to get Bill Frist on that one. That would be a hell of a platform. Get ugly women out of our bars!

daveymck
11-28-2006, 06:29 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Ironically, Gutshot is still being prosecuted for pioneering the gaming club concept in London.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gutshot charge fees for gaming so are still outside of this new law.

Their case is more important for UK poker than this change in the law though, if Gutshot win then we will see a load more decent card clubs opening up (maybe we will anyway following the Loose Cannon and Dusk till dawn concepts). Apart from the pub poker suppliers, which seems to be becoming very saturated, for any semi serious player who cares.

Richas
11-28-2006, 07:47 AM
If anyone is interested tha 5.8m number the Times quotes here refers to a Nielsen market research survey not research into problem gambling. What they found was that 5.8m "people" log on to gambling sites from the UK each month. That's not 5.8m people that's 5.8m logon ids. Me I average five or six sites a month.

The government estimate of about 1m people is a lot closer than this claim of about 10% of the population. Still Panorama and the Times like to use the bigger number to mislead.

PS can someone please explain tournament poker to the "expert" quoted. Last time I looked betting big in a tournament can be +ev

matrix
11-28-2006, 08:49 PM
My local pub has just started a NL poker night.

You pay £5 per night and play I think 2 MTT's.

Each place is awarded points a la TLB top placed TLB players play a grand final at the end of the month for a several £k prizepool MTT. (the Leaderboard is spread across results from several other pubs all playing the same league)

Given that you need to do well in multiple MTT's to even get to the final I decided that I can make more money multi-tabling $100NL online tho I might well play a few nights here and there for a laugh.

jkkkk
11-29-2006, 04:07 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ironically, Gutshot is still being prosecuted for pioneering the gaming club concept in London.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gutshot charge fees for gaming so are still outside of this new law.

Their case is more important for UK poker than this change in the law though, if Gutshot win then we will see a load more decent card clubs opening up (maybe we will anyway following the Loose Cannon and Dusk till dawn concepts). Apart from the pub poker suppliers, which seems to be becoming very saturated, for any semi serious player who cares.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yea and if the Gutshot win this case I bet we will all start getting taxed to crap on our winnings, ugh.

daveymck
11-29-2006, 05:31 AM
Why would that be? This isnt a tax case and I am sure Gutshot pay appropriate corporation and business rates.

Taxation of gambling winning would have huge impact on the racing, bingo, lottery and casino industries all of which have seemed to have done well lobbying the government, there would be uproar if they started doing this.

Sciolist
11-29-2006, 07:54 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Why would that be? This isnt a tax case and I am sure Gutshot pay appropriate corporation and business rates.

Taxation of gambling winning would have huge impact on the racing, bingo, lottery and casino industries all of which have seemed to have done well lobbying the government, there would be uproar if they started doing this.

[/ QUOTE ]
The National Lottery too - it'd reduce the appeal of it, and with new games running for the London olympics etc, the government needs the lottery to do well.

NoMeansYes_
11-29-2006, 10:17 AM
I wish the national lottery would open a poker site and advertise it like they do the lottery. It would be huge.

jkkkk
11-29-2006, 10:26 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Why would that be? This isnt a tax case and I am sure Gutshot pay appropriate corporation and business rates.

Taxation of gambling winning would have huge impact on the racing, bingo, lottery and casino industries all of which have seemed to have done well lobbying the government, there would be uproar if they started doing this.

[/ QUOTE ]

From what I've heard about the case, it's been built on the fact that poker is a skill game and that poker should be treated as a skill game, same as any other sport. Once the courts recognise this, I think its only a matter of time before the government will lobby for taxing professionals. Hopefully I'm wrong though. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

jukofyork
11-30-2006, 06:53 AM
[ QUOTE ]
I wish the national lottery would open a poker site and advertise it like they do the lottery. It would be huge.

[/ QUOTE ]
It would probably have 50% rake though... /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Juk /images/graemlins/smile.gif